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The euro1 ecu is a very complete solution and is hugely more customisable and therefore more flexible and future proof than the reflash.
you're comparing something that can be tailored to your car and it's particular configuration, to something that has been tuned by someone that you don't know, that doesn't know you, doesn't know your setup and is essentially guessing what will work...
Its even more fundemental than that. The 'reflash' is a standardised product with limited engine parametres than say the stock ecu. If your particular engine falls outside of those parametres your $500 investment was not particularly wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
And how much will you need to spend? The Evo's greatest strength is not straight line grunt. That thing absolutely flies around corners and handles beautifully.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
BTW - I spoke to James about 2 1/2 weeks ago and he said it'll be released 1-2 weeks, still no sign of it and $3999 wasn't installed. Apparently a few Honda dealers would be selling/installing it as well... a testament to the qualility of product.
But spending $3999.00 without more information is hard to justify.
I don't think we can really compare two essentially different cars (EVO and EURO).
The EVO is a stripped out car designed from the onset as a track car. While our EURO is a sporty family car(ok ok maybe I shouldn't use family).
For me it's not about trying to get as much power possible. But just to extract the most potential from the chassis. If I was to bolt on a turbo and boost the power of the EURO to beyond 250KW get the custom tune etc.. costing say $6000.00. I still need to consider complete coilovers, new brakes, strut bars, tower bars which would end up costing another $3500.00 just to manage the power... You also end up losing the point of the EURO in the first place... being a great and luxary car with great handling... if you want to go to that extreme you might as well buy the EVO....
For me making the car more driveable is more important and it seems to me the jTune product is taking the right approach. Not too agressive, still quite, good fuel economy, more torque where the EURO needs. Not too much power too make the car hard to live with on a daily basis. If I needed a car to drive to work everyday and go for a nice curise or drive on the weekends... this would be a good way too go... and it seems like a gower figure which won't overpower the stock chassis. At the end of the day I still want to fit my family in the car without shattering any bones on our dodgy australian roads.
Just my thoughts.
Mike.
I am very curious about this statement. Do you mean to say that some Honda dealerships will be selling/installing these aftermarket parts? I find this highly dubious considering:Quote:
Originally Posted by mleung
1. the cost to the consumer
2. the potential impact on warranties and furthermore liabilities to the dealership.
Like you I am still waiting for the release of the product let alone the promise that dealerships will be selling and installing these parts. It does make you wonder however why the release date has continued to be pushed back further and further.
Getting the Honda dealers to buy in to the idea could be a possible reason for the delay...... as usual...... who knows.....
Until the bloody thing actually gets released.... who is to say what.
Mike
Point noted, but I still find it a little hard to believe that dealers would take it on. Consider the fact that dealers wont even sell bodykits or parts from major international affiliated companies (like mugen for Honda or Nismo for Nissan) I just personally dont see it happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by mleung
I know for a fact one Honda dealer that is going to run with the JTUNE gear as James has seen them.They service Subarus as well inc.STIs and they have a dyno.They are in the southern suburbs of Sydney.I don't think it's my place to name the dealer.:zip:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
No need to name them, but are we talking about a Honda dealership or a service centre?Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
They are a multi brand dealership,sales,new and used and service including Honda of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
Meanwhile......we wait.....and wait......for the release date.:thumbdwn:
It is one thing for a Honda dealer to offer an aftermarket product as an agent (eg aftermarket tinting, rims, paint protection etc) but to actually honour the warranty if there is a defect caused by the aftermarket product is another thing.
That said, in the USA some Acura dealers were honouring factory warranty on Comptech aftermarket headers, intake, exhausts that were installed by an Acura dealer. So it is not unheard of.
In this case it would seem strange, however, for a dealer to honour warranty on the engine, drivetrain, etc for a Euro with modified ECU pushing out around 140kw+ at the wheels. This is particularly the case when such modifications have not been subject to Honda's strict factory testing (extreme stress, heat, cold to replicate harsh conditions and how the vehicle will stand up in the long term).
Probably they will sell it to you with a clause stating xxxx stuffs will not be cover under the warranty or warranty period is only 1 year instead of the x number of years...
hey i have been the one all along saying stay n/a, i love the challenge of trying to get more power without doing the norm and slapping on a turboQuote:
Originally Posted by ALN
ok, i never said id buy it without seeing figures, i said that the website will have full details, photos, videos, dynos blah blah blah.
secondly, i was just trying to prove a point that u dont need to go turbo to beat sports proven cars, i think making a n/a family sedan quicker than a rally legend is an achievement, and something to be proud of (if someone did it)
third, im always open to peoples point of view :) i enjoy reading what everyone has to say.
forth, dyno shows 180kph when i hit 130.9kw (4th gear)
fifth, i know the reflash is generic and doesnt match the car or setup perfectly, but its alot cheaper and more time efficient than spending days on the dyno trying to turn it properly...
sixth, i did point out that $3999 wasnt installed, i said an extra $500 which included before and after dynos from memory
seventh, i probably wont get the extreme package (as i already said) instead go for the standard flash and headers...
eighth, stock evo8s do put around 170-180kw at the wheels, very efficient gear box and diff
ninth, id rather buy a euro for 40k and spend 26k customizing it, making it different to everyone else than spend 66k on an evo8 and be the same as the guy next door...
tenth, i already have upgraded brakes (slotted discs, braided lines), strut brace, front and rear sway bar, pedders super lows although im planning on tein super street coilovers
:D and no im not angry, just trying to answer /sort out alot of questions in one hit
sorry if i seem to be taking a dig at you, but whats ur mph, not dyno, go to the dragstrip and give us ur mph, most of the knowledgeable ppl on here will be able to tell you, what dynos claim and what is real is 2 different things.
I've tuned many cars that "only" post about 175kws on my dyno, but on the dragstrip most of them pull 115+ mphs. yet some big name workshops will make 200+kws and will only pull the same sort of mphs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
IMO I think JTUNE will initially have trouble selling the extreme pack simply because it will need time in the marketplace to gain credibility.Once it's fitted to a number of cars and the word starts spreading i'm sure it'll take off(providing it lives up to peoples expectations)
Thats exactly what I was saying earlier. They are making a "release offer" of $3999 plus $500 install. So thats $4500. Now I AM going to me modding my car but I want to see some proper comments/feedback from users with real world experience about bag for buck over the next 3-4months.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
So then the offer goes to its "normal" price of; lets estimate $5000 fitted.:o
Now I have spent about $3000 on Tein SS, RSB, ingalls, fitting , grill and others etc. So now add that to the $5000 of unknown performance. Thats $8000 in total.
My cars a 2005 standard with 30 000km worth approx $25 000. Add $8000 so $33000 and I am right on a NEW euro or more importantly im only about $7000 off a brand NEW Civic Type R or Golf GTI.
So even though I do hope that the hondata is good. Im not spending $5000 on my car, especially untested, sight unseen with this release offer.
Im hoping the normal flash with decent headers for about $2000 will be very decent. Let see.....
for all that money you just spend why wouldnt you buy an r34 GTR??Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
i would rather an EVO 8 any day over a euro but each to there own:)
Good post. Modding cars never really makes financial sense. Took me a while to realise that it is just about enjoyment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
It can be fun but at the end of the day you dont get much, if any, of the extra money you put in.
I agree with you on spending $5000 on the Euro though. Unless you are really attached to the car you can put that money towards the new model with SH-AWD and turbo or something different that is going to be as fast as the jtune model anyway.
everyone has a skyline! lol and people expect r34s to be fast, people dont expect the good old euro, it makes an excellent sleeper :) ive spent toooooo much money on the euro already to even consider buying a new car, id never get any of it back and id just end up with another stock car!
incase you havent worked it out, i like to be different and stand out in a crowd :p
its not just a skyline its a race/road car that can be driven in any condition but and at the end of the day the euro is a medium sized family car nothing more
dont get me wrong i like the shape of the euro and everything but for the amount of money you wanna spend to get 200kwfw personally its a waste
The price of a 2nd hand Euro ($24000 for base) and the $4500 for this tune is still reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr747
but i am talking about stroking boring out quad th everthing like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
4500 tune wont get you 200 kwfw
That would be $8k+shipping from USA instead of $4k for 215kW then. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mr747
If it was me and I was spending that much, I'd go for 234kW instead but that is over $14k.
After you spend that 2k, will you be wondering what about the rest of the package??Quote:
Im hoping the normal flash with decent headers for about $2000 will be very decent. Let see.....
Give it a max of 1/2 a year, most people will probably be bored of the power and wants more.... then add the rest of the stuffs in the package??
for me ive owned a couple of turbo cars and the power is easy to get used of
after 6 months of the extreme package i would want to turbo the car anyway
thats just how it is power is easy to get used of
as aaronng said, it doesnt cost that much to get 200+ atw... but i never said i was gonna do that, i was talking theoritical. all i was saying is id rather have a 40k car and spend 26k customizing it and making it something special than just spending 66k straight out and getting something that wasnt 100% what i wanted...
its like clothes, you dont just buy a "combo" package from the shops, you go out and buy the shirt u like, the pants you like, the jacket you like, the watch you like, the shoes you like, etc, put it all together and you got the outfit you want...
hahhahaha i like the way you put that lol
thankyou :) lol
IMO spending any more than 4.5k on a euro for performance gains is a waste.It's a FWD without LSD,if you have more power than what the JTUNE extreme is offering you'll have trouble getting it to the ground.i'm glad i spent 2.2k on my suspension.that was money well spent.
I could not agree more. 200kw would be stupid in a euro. I mean what are you trying to achieve?
Its a family lux car with a bit of poke that need a little bit more poke to make it complete. About 170kw at the fly with about 280nm torque should be spot on.
i want 150-160atw... then ill stop... and yes i agree, it is a family car, thats why it makes the perfect sleeper :)
keeping up with a 2006 BMW 540i is a pretty good job
230+kW TSXs are used in race series in the USA. It just so happens that Hytech makes it available for regular people with the cash. :)
Anyway, it is not a must to have an LSD unless you are going to use full throttle out of a corner. If you are using 1/4 throttle coming out of a corner, it would be like stock. If you only want the grunt while rolling on the straight, you won't need the LSD.
your dreaminQuote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
~155Awkw actuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
evo IX's selling for 57 driveawayQuote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
Evo VIII's substantially less. low-mid 40's.
The Euro would be more fun with an LSD.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
that just makes them all the easier to beat :pQuote:
Originally Posted by hengis
they sell them on TSX parts $1100...Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
Convert to aussie$$+freight+install,a bit rich for me.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
same here, i dont do 1/4 mile drags, its only ever "track" style racing...
i want good 60-120km/hr acceleration more than 0-100... more practicle in everyday driving
goodluck buddy, good luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
I agree lol. No way can a Euro beat an Evo. Those who think it's possible should go for a test drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by hengis
ahhh yee of little faith :pQuote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
All I can say after having all the gear fitted the car is extremly quick it pulls hard in all gears 4K grand when you comare imports really is not that much. I spent over 12 grand on my Sportivo Corolla before I saw the light and got the Honda. The exhaust system as previously stated is designed to have no drone. I can attest to that as the original design did have some but I got them to change it. Bang for buck I think the money is well worth it as a complete package.
Best chance to probably step up to the Evo's is have the euro fitted with the comptech supercharger that most tsx over america does, too bad no one in australia can get any in.
The JTune package will out gun the Comptech S/C anytime....
But we did have lotsa fun with our Sportivos. Very different car imo, and still have an afinity for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peekay34
I checked out the JTune website this morning, there is a logo on the page now. Hopefully more to come soon!
http://www.jtune.com.au/
Also, i checked out the source code (to see if there was any thing extra) and it looks like the page was made in word 2007...
http://jtune.com.au/indel_files/image001.jpg
lol
.
Damn that web designer has been working hard these last months............
Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
i agree. On NA car with minor bolt on, probably just keep dremin lol. You do head internal mods like cams you got chance on stock evo's.
2 mths for a logo.i hope the HIE+reflash comes quicker than the logo.BTW Merlin086,you,i and all the other 06-07 owners out there have to wait approx 2-3 mths.MORE after the 03-05 reflash arrives.:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin086
I would dare say the web site is being developed behinds the scenes and there are no links live on the web yet. You don't write a web site live online do you? No.
To quote from 29th May from HondatechQuote:
Originally Posted by BiLL|z0r
"and now waiting for my graphic artist to finish off my website so I can release everything, and all the results"
.......but 3 months is certainly enough time!....surely....
True, we all know his time frame means at least triple whats he states. I don't him curry over it though simply because of his new born baby (not so new now) and I know the time babies can take up. That child will be no 1 priority in his life. I'd also prefer a perfect product on release rather than version 1,2,3 etc.
I see they registered the Jtune corporate name last week so looks like they are close (read closer). At least they are getting good legal advice to limit personal liability.
any progress on release dates and prices?
dont we have another thread on this ?
lol, this is the original thread
Hence the 54 pages
theres another thread?
yeah but someone decided to create another and i think everyone has followed on to that one to talk about the JTune/hondata.
I was reading this for about 7-8 pages and far out theres still nothing exciting going on yet. Although by the sounds of it, this time the release is imminent with the registration of the names, etc.
As for beating EVOs (stock), I honestly dont think there will be any problems going by what's being presented here or what we have heard from Peekay.
EVOs and STIs don't actually trap that fast even with bolt on mods, they are just monsters off the line but AWD is not efficient for high speeds. They also need full ECU tuning to get the best out of the package. Even a 12s EVO or STi doesnt necessarily make it quicker than a 13.X s Honda on a rolling start. :)
Would be interesting to see - I was reading an old magazine this morning with the 03 WRX STI (so slower than the current model with the bigger engine). Over a fair distance of 1000m the STI got 25.87 seconds @202kph.
The 03 Honda NSX was only slightly faster with 25.77 so the turbos still do ok over the distance.
I dont think they are too bad rolling especially if they are in the right gear.
A stock evo can do 80-120km/h in 3rd gear in 3.2 secs. I've driven one several times and it's much much quicker than a manual euro with I/H/E. AWD helps it off the line but it's not slow at all from a rolling start.
Comparing a euro to an evo is ridiculous
Evo>Euro
no doubt, you spend the money on getting a euro as fast as a stock evo and its going to have traction issues anyway.
spend a little money on the evo and it'll be far ahead
All the Jtune/hondata threads are a waste of the intertubes with no proper announcement.
And all this talk of evo vs euro is frankly stupid and its totally irrelevant.
If i wanted an evo i would have bought one, not modded my euro.
we shouldn't compare the evo to euro. since they are totally different class.
any update on this jtune yet?
Remember Leon we'll have to wait ANOTHER 2-3 mths.after the reflash is released for the 03-05 Euros because we and others have the 06-07 model.:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterSonic12
Look guys some exciting news from James regarding Jtune Euro packages:
http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/sh...highlight=euro
good to see some update but nothing firm yet on release date - and doesnt say anything about install price.
I can only speculate on`pre-order` - sounds like you pay and then wait for parts to be made (overseas?). Not sure how long that process will take - could be a month or two for manufacture which would take it closer to Christmas 07.
From what i understand you have to pay the FULL amt.up front!!Based on how long we've had to wait i'm not so sure about this.:(
You take a risk with every new business - if you are concerned you can wait after the pre-order and your penalty is you pay approx 20% more. There is no guarantees with anything, there could be further delays after you have ordered, etc. But a 20% discount is a pretty good carrot and these guys are not the type to run off with everyone's money (my opinion). They love the work and the cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
Don't think you can expect them to manufacture all this bolt on equipment without having payment (or at least a hefty deposit) upfront.
If I was them I would do the same - no business wants to chase people for money.
I agree.But having to pay the full amt.is a bit much.50% payment up front would be easier to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Cant wait to hear some more information about the "mild flash tune"
Having already got I/H/E it would be a pretty expensive exercise to swap all that over to Jtune gear.
LoL at 20% penalty.
Ive been running my own company for 8 years successfully and would NEVER penalise a customer. They are your lifeblood.
No way im paying 100% upfront. That nucking futs. And an unreasonable ask.
That being said the mild reflash at $899 looks like good value to me.
"Penalty" was my words. It isn't a penalty - it is a discount for people who sign up early.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
As for paying upfront - that is up to them and it makes sense for some business models.
From what I gather this is a new start up business. If they have to get a loan to cover the manufacturing costs of all these bolt ons before receiving money from the customer - that is only going to increase the cost of the final product for everyone.
mild tune option sounds quite good. would the vafc help in situation like this, where it can happen the reflashed ecu to bring the mapping a bit closer to your mods. do u get what i mean?
Does anyone know what the conditions are that are in the announcement i.e.
"These prices apply for all Australian clients who own a 2003 to 2007 Manual and Automatic Honda Accord Euro. ** Conditions apply for 2006 and 2007 models."
100% up front payment for a new un-proven product is, IMHO, asking a bit much. Can appreciate his start up costs but that only implies they company is underfunded.
It may be, and certainly hope it is because I want one, an excellent product but I'm going to wait and watch.
Well they are definitely not bad rolling start because they have a turbo and heaps of mid-range torque but they won't beat most newer Holdens!Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
When you compare NSX and STI, dont forget the STI probably gets 3-5 car lengths from the word go and at around 200kph every 0.1s is worth around 5 to 5.5 car lengths.
So if the NSX by 1000m has caught up by 8-10 car lengths over the STI including the launch deficit initially, and the M3 is even faster by the STI by around 0.5-1.0s over 1000m, then you will understand why I said they aren't actually that fast.
Similarly, as I always said, a 0-100kph time of 5.0s for an AWD and a RWD doesn't necessarily mean they are equal, as the AWD covers that in a shorter distance. Probably not easy to grasp the concept though.
Euro Accord with I/H/E PLUS tuning (tuning makes the difference), if it really traps 102mph, will mean it is faster than a stock EVO or STI on a rolling start which trap around same 101.X to 103mph, especially considering the Euro is FWD and the launch deficit i.e. 0-60ft will be much greater.
Rofl :-|
an sti gets 5 car lengths off the line over an NSX?
sounds legit