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hahahha yeah mph readings don't work for FI, just keep telling yourself it.
you're car either had some weight reduction, change in tyres, wheels or you're just a very random/inconsistant driver for your mph to be changing that much.
bed time hahahah.
End of the day turbo Lag is a big part in drag raceing. A factor that you dont have to deal with N/A that why you dont understand it.
MPH do have some indications but not if the car has stayed on different % boost levels over their duration of their run. run 1 on 80% of time in full boost vs run 2 100% of time in full boost.
No mate, dont tell me what my car has or hasnt had done. Same power output, same weight, wheels etc etc. Just Learning and getting better at drag raceing and learning to maximise the % of time my car stays at full boost for the duration on my runs.
First runs may only have been 70% .. but best runs were close to 90%
Dont worry i will draw you up a nice easy diagram for you to follow tomorro night. Bed for me now too.
ps. Just because MY car hasnt done a 13 doesnt mean my advice doesnt have merit, or do i NOT have the right to give it to people. If you think thats the case then your kidding yourself.
Yes,i know what anti-lag is,and since you are specifically talking about launching,it does fall under the category of launch controller.They are not 2 different features as such.They both limit the engine to a desired rpm by way of fuel cut for limiter only, &/or ignition cut for also having the ability to build boost via unburned fuel mix going off in the hot exhaust manifold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexc86
If u want to get technical,the gizzmo & such,are not proper anti-lag since they only achieve it via ignition cut.Proper anti-lag,involves seperate modes in the engine managment with completely different fuel & ignition maps reading off sensors such as TPS,MAP,clutch switch,etc to achieve anti-lag at any rpm or engine load.
Im also sure luke doesnt want the repercussions of running anti-lag,which can include reduced turbo life,dropped exhaust valves,severly reduced cat convertor life & more.Having said that,people are still using it on mildly tuned engines & getting away with it to certain extents,but the end results will come.
"launch controllers" also do not work with mild builds,you can do a much better job yourself.
It does sound awesome however & produces some nice flames without the cat in place.
BTW,u make driving & launching a front drive boosted car sound like some sort of black art,it really isnt that hard or different to an NA version,its not until u get to AWD's & large turbos that it gets tricky with boost.
Anyway,back on topic,
The turbo D, squatting for all its worth:p
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...250608_132.jpg
in na motors power band is only in the 5500(vtec) plus range
if u bog down at the track u will be out of this power band
so u will only be running at less than half of power
but drag racing has to many variables
so u can never be running at 100% eng power
in any set up that being na or turbo
in a boosted car ben,its just a little harder to modulate the throttle if u go instantly into too much wheelspin as boost doesnt back off as quickly as the NA variety.
but your right if u avoid too much wheelspin at the start its just like launching the NA,all about throttle control & a bit of clutch work if u underdone it.
slicks will fix all launching issues.
Not quite. LSD + slicks will fix MOST of his launching issues.
lol YeahQuote:
Originally Posted by grumpy rooster
Luke, have u looked up FI 1/4 FWD videos on the internet yet? My guess is that this is whats happening.
http://www.civictsi.com/Videos/Civic...sideCarRun.mpg
1st - wheelspin wheelspin shift
2nd - wheelspin wheelspin shift
3rd - bog bog bog bog boost traction on your way
4th traction end 1/4
U gotta modulate throttle, peddle the wheelspin and hookup 3rd in your powerband. Thats the key. Ds produce as much torque as horsepower. Bs are lucky to make half. Peak torque is around 4000-5000rpm. Launching at anything in the range will have the same effect. You got to peddle the wheelspin. It takes alot of practice.
Now go watch a NA FWD 1/4 mile video at the same ET region. Its alot less involved.
Go read:
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...art-2-a-29058/
Your chinese spec tempe tyre combo is likely adding over 200kgs the the weight of your car. Along with taking longer to get into your powerband, causeing more lag, and less traction due to less sidewall.
Go read turboD16 in regards to 1/4mile pointers.
Oh and lastly, your boost falling off is probably the reason your hitting the MPH you are. At 10psi u should be trapping 100mph. 100mph is the key to 13's. That said, it was ur first time out, i would be happy with improving. Ive seen civics run 14.2@117mph.
This is the whole point i have been trying to make
All things equal 2 exact same cars, same power output and driver both forced induction.
With a forced induction setup there can be a massive variety of power outputs at any given rev range (within the turbos efficiency)
Eg 5000rpm @ 10psi may equal 120wkw
5000rpm @ 5psi may equal 110wkw
5000rpm @ 0psi may equal 90wkw
This is what i ment by constantly staying at your maxium power possible at all points in your rev rang (being at full boost). With NA this is different
Eg 5000rpm @ 0psi may equal 110wkw...
This is the only possible combination.
Launches with FI = launching on no boost or launching on full boost... completely diffferent.. as you are launching with different power capabilities.
Just because you are at 5000RPM doesnt mean your on full boost. You could be anywhere between 0psi and 10psi.
Launches on N/a = launching alwayes on 0psi. your never going to have any more power to utilise.
Now shifts. A slow shift with NA isnt that critical. All you loose is a little bit of time. A Slow shift with FI is COMPLETELY different. You loose your time AS WELL as all your boost power that you have built. This means for a fraction of a sec (depending on turbo size and boost pressure) it will need to re-build back to full boost. Meaning there are times after your shifts where your car is not running at its peak power (AT THAT POINT ON YOUR RPM).
So after 3 shifts and haveing to rebuild boost 3 times (all adding up time). This means you are no longer at your peak power (at all points on your rpm).
Ie you are NOT at your peak power RPM for 100% of you run.
Thats why MPH varies so much with FI setups as well as why you cannot predict as accurately what the setup is good for.
Anyone feel free to add comments or critism to this.
I stand by everything i have said, but i can admit that getting a cars FULL 1/4 potential time is alot easier from NA as to FI.
Lyle your making good points, just sometimes poorly worded (i suffer from the same syndrome). It makes you an easy target.
Yep ^ got no problem with that. But just because my ability to articulate my thoughts/knowledge isnt the best... doesnt mean the theory isnt sound.
Thats not aimed at you btw.