in one sentence, what situation would require one?>Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
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in one sentence, what situation would require one?>Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
any situation where the person decides that for their intended purposes they would like to add additional strength to the bottom end to make sure it stays together...
this is for when you are getting really serious:
http://erlperformance.com/components...jdbg0004_1.jpg
this is 300kW+ territory
more information than needed, but appreciated anyway.
Dave what are your thoughts regarding my theory of the some batch of OEM B20 bores having irregular looking bores which often cause them more prone to crack.
ie.
The top of the bore circumference is a lot thinner than the rest ....
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3076/img6746vc.jpg
vs
my block, which has survived over 50,000kms
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3215932_n.jpg
my theory is that B20's crack sleeves due to poor tuning.
EDIT: poor tuning (or lack of any) that leads to detonation
even with boosted applications?
especially with boosted applications...
Increased RPM is also a good reason to fit a girdle. Very common on Falcon 6cyl when consistently pushing past 7k rpmQuote:
Originally Posted by ericl33
that doesnt look like it is original OEM.Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
where is the piston code?
those look like RS Machine...
maybe it is a rebore gone bad...
yes that is a rs machine 85mm
and it had cracked sleeves?
maybe the machinist didnt "measure twice, cut once"
no it's not cracked just finished putting it together :)
gonna be interesting as the pistons do not seem to be centred in the bore?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOBRO
could be an optical illusion though?
too hard to tell from that poor picture...
and whats those particles in the paste on top of the pistons?
see how this looks? lower sleeve looks looks wider than upper sleeve edge?Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Attachment 22113
hard to tell whether it is equal on both sides without using a caliper to measure ;)
just looks dat way in the pic i checked the bores with a Telescopic gauge.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
and again just motor oil when fitting the pistons nothing else, kept it very clean while assemblingQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
cool, good work - cleanliness is key to a bottom end that doesn't smoke :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOBRO
yeah, thought so...Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOBRO
BTW - whens it going to be kicked in the guts?
atomic batteries to power
turbine to speed
ready to start up
that looks very nice was it sleeved??Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7645/img6742m.jpg
here a lil better pic
i have already started the car a couple of times once a week atleast till i get it tuned and driven it up and down my street OMG soo much better than my b18c2Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
no, not sleeved, no need as only pushing 160kW
yours looks fine, if it was bored by a proper machinist, it should be fine...
what is the P2W clearance? bearings clearance?
FWIW - i started mine, got it up to temp, checked for leaks and shut it down, then i drove it 50m up the driveway to a tow truck and had it run in on the dyno... seating the rings under load is crucial to longevity...
as long as you don't beat on it with unknown fueling, it is OK, but you don't want to risk it IMO... run it in on a dyno and she'll be apples :)
can i ask who you sent it to get it tuned and how much with breaking in the motor? the clearences i have them on some paper sumwhere in the garage lolQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
I would like to know who offered you this service too.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOBRO
ive called a couple of place some places from 1100 dats just the first tune breake in extra 300 and some places 500 lol
dyno break in is 400ish plus full tune around 750 (plus 40l of petrol), so 1.2k minimum is a good ball park (i am a regular customer of his...)
takes a whole day (at least) of effort by the tuner... anything less and you know it is not going to be done right...
Toda Racing Australia did mine, very very happy...
but when fully building an engine, you have to realise you have to pay for a tune to match your ECU to the engine combination that you have "created"
people who think they can run a 'base-map' and pray for the best are way behind the eight ball...
can you please clear your inbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
lol, too many lowballers after exhausts... cleared...
B20Vtec Integra makes it to the track for some running in laps, at long lastQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiYTRDIkd4o&feature=plcp
wheres the best place to get a b20/b16 done for your civic and wats the averge price for a b20.b16 built for power and reliability
do you atleast have a B series? if you do what bolt ons and etc do u have?Quote:
Originally Posted by illchay
Hmmm perhaps Im not the one to ask lol as my b20Vtec built to last I hope and to race cost me the price of a new civic. So I think start with a budget and shop around for the block and head. Those alone will set you back around $1500 to $2000 in reasonable condition. Decide for what purpose you intend to use it ! Street, track, drag and that will determine much of what you will need to spend.Get it right and you will be rewarded with a sweet strong powerful engine. Take your time ask a lot of questions learn and read as much as you can. There is a lot of good advice from a few guys on this forum who have proven results. They are very informative and a good place to start. We all want you to avoid the traps and we would all like to see your project be a success.Quote:
Originally Posted by illchay
Cheers Gary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hwnK...&feature=g-upl
yeah. my story begins when my b18a in my DA9 failed one day. i had a b20b dropped in for $1200, at parts plus in camilla/rosehill. then a year later i bought a b16a from the same place for $1200. and had it dropped off at good performance. since i wanted more compression the mechanic there had a b18c head. so we swapped heads and coincidently he needed a b16a head for another swap he was doing & block. so he knocked the price of the build down. from memory i think i only paid $1000 including the golden eagle b20b vtec kit. the only additional cost was the $700 i paid for the head work and brass valve guide's. which was done at another shop 'round the corner from them.
so total $2900, cos i had already dropped b20b in my DA9. but including it $4100.
but since then iv'e spent more on all the other gear such as intake & exhaust manifold's, clutch & flywheel, 4.4 R/box, forged pistons(13.5:1) and rod's. R/crank. .50 over bore and girdle, cams and valve train. EK cat back system & VAFC2.
and in the last 7 years iv'e never had a problem with it.
yea i got a ek4 b16a2 and i only got a whale penis on it which does nothing at all ahah
thanks man that will get me rolling now :)
i wanna do frankstien so bad my civic is such a nugget
Must be school holidays....
^^ kekekeke
my housemate has a 88 ef7 with b20vtec swap. it was built by dyno dave about 6 years ago, still going strong.
although he finaly stripped a rocker adjuster nut and is struggling to find another,
he also has a full turbo kit sitting ther ready to fit up once its running again.
should be a wild ride once it hits the street again.
niceeeeeeeeeee
Can anyone recommend a few good B20 frank builders in sydney? I will be building this one right with new bearings, rings, pistons, studs etc.
I was considering dyno dave but apparently he isn't around anymore?
Byp in the trader section can sort you out
Correct me if i'm wrong but i thought BYP only installs and tunes? i was told they don't do engine builds.Quote:
Originally Posted by 89lude
I think you heard wrong :p
Dyno Dave is still building b20s
91 pages later lol
Has anyone tried different ignition setups on the builds they have done? Like the coil over plug setups that are going around or is everyone just using standard vtec head ignition setups?
If using a b18 block with a girdle is it possible to use the longer stroke crank and does the girdle need to be massaged to compensate ( not doing this but curious as to it's Clarence )
If anyone has done head work, how much meat is there to play with before running into galleries etc? Also do you have cc's per runner or end flow rate results?
How much is the going rate for sleeving these days? Going by the majority of people's results not really a necessity but ale
Ways good for piece of mind and maybe some
Boost if I win lotto lol
By the looks of things these days the b20 is a bit of a dying trend as the new k packages are simple enough with good results but still looking to play around a little for a bit of education.....
91 pages later lol
Has anyone tried different ignition setups on the builds they have done? Like the coil over plug setups that are going around or is everyone just using standard vtec head ignition setups?
If using a b18 block with a girdle is it possible to use the longer stroke crank and does the girdle need to be massaged to compensate ( not doing this but curious as to it's Clarence )
If anyone has done head work, how much meat is there to play with before running into galleries etc? Also do you have cc's per runner or end flow rate results?
How much is the going rate for sleeving these days? Going by the majority of people's results not really a necessity but ale
Ways good for piece of mind and maybe some
Boost if I win lotto lol
By the looks of things these days the b20 is a bit of a dying trend as the new k packages are simple enough with good results but still looking to play around a little for a bit of education.....
try to contact dyno dave... if u want to build one.. or even tinkerbell
How does the frankenstein engines affect insurance?
It won't affect insurance.
So do you declare an engine swap?
As long as the swap is no bigger than 15% in capacity. There will be no hassles.
Hi guys, I brought a b20vtec from a member here a months ago now. Okay here's my story I'm getting my car tune (car still at the dyno) we have been having problem with my car, when the engine is hot the car backfire and Also ill be running 3 cylinder for like 2-3sec then it stop and comeback to 4 cylinder. We change the dizzy, spark plug wire, change ecu, change TB. Still doesn't solve the problem.. What could the problem be?? I just want the car to run good and don't miss cylinder. If any of you guys experience this before please share your thought. Cheers
Is there anything wrong with the injectors?Quote:
Originally Posted by CTR_EK9
Nope the injector are good. But the spark plug leads is old and kinda dirty. The car was running on msd dizzy but somehow that dizzy ain't in good condition so we changed to my stock dizzy, is there such thing as (timing the dizzy?)Quote:
Originally Posted by newpaddy3
yeah you just rotate it?
I know it's elementary but did you check/change the actual plugs?
Well the dizzy from my old car I haven't change or touch ever since I brought the car, 8-9 months ago so yeah... I've done some reading on the net and most of the people recommended to change/check your spark plug wire. Will it be okay to drive it now? Cheers guysQuote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
Ctrek9 you should open new thread for your engine issues. Even though it's b20vtec, it's technical issue not a discussion abt building b20vtec
Fair enough. Will do cheers mateQuote:
Originally Posted by mocchi
take it to a reputable mechanic if this one is just shotgunning it and replacing everything, how is it running on 3 cylinders? no spark or no fuel? if theres no spaark u will smell the fuel, if its the injector try using a noid light to check individual injectors, also check if the ecu is throwing any codes or even better, try uning a scanner and showing some live data
Hey guys, anyone here from Melbourne that has actually had or gone through a b20vtec? If so could you guys please help me. I'm contemplating on doing a b20 vtec swap into my ek4. Just want to know if their are any reputable b20 vtec builders & tuners in this area. If someone could get back to me via pm it'll be much appreciated.
For Melbourne I would hit up Josh @ Sleeping Performance
anyone here used rsmachine pistons?
i know theyre cast hypereutectic like oem and thats what i want, lighter and tighter clearance.
wanna know how good they finish / pins / piston ring quality etc, say compared to oem.
Depends who you buy the kit from, sometimes I had the box come with different manufacturer rings in them, bit of research revealed that it is either Hastings (straight from RSMachine - which no longer exists now) or NPR if you got a "better" ring package (same as CP supplied). To be honest I've used Hastings more than once before and never had a problem. Both sets of rings are more than good enough for most applications.
RSMachine quality on the pistons is good, always double check the balance when you get them as with anything, there has been a couple of times when the pistons were supplied with the wrong rings and a "random" failed piston in a non B series application, didn't cause damage, was caught quick so just be sure to triple check what you have.
Otherwise you won't have a problem! :)
thanks for tips bor, im thinking of getting itr style 84mm/oem rods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
in regards to main bearing clearance, lets say b18c cos they use same main bearings as b20
service manual says 0.024-0.042mm
i wonder whats best for daily drive or say road race? i've always try aim for middle ground to looser side so 0.031 and above in the past and its fine
is there any benefit in going tighter clearance say 0.024-0.031?
5-30 oil.
btw does anyone here ever measure bearing crush when they did b20 build?
how did you do it lol.
With our special rotational tires, it will allow you to drive very fast. - JK Tyre
:)
it's called Plastigauge and is very easy (and somewhat accurate) to use...Quote:
Originally Posted by mocchi
Attachment 25078
not oil clearance, but bearing crush.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
oh, then no, never measured it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mocchi
dont think i've ever needed to?
Install the bearings, then torque down the cap to spec. Then undo the bolt on one side, leaving the other torqued. The cap will rise on the side you released. Use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the bottom of the raised side of the cap and the other mating surface. According to a book I have, it should measure between 0.075 and 0.152 mm.
More info here: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...page&q&f=false
Never done it myself though.
thanks rayleQuote:
Originally Posted by Rayle
yea read that, doesnt that kinda contradict with the whole point of criss cross torque pattern though?
just wondering if bearing crush will stay the same after it has been used for say 10,000kms
or reusing old bearing if its still in good condition.
wouldnt want bearing thats still in good nick but gonna end up spinning
If you're just checking the bearing crush, I don't think it really matters about the correct torquing sequence over all of the main caps (but you should still do the incremental torquing of 25 Nm then up to 76 Nm). In the service manual, it only talks about the correct sequence when doing the final install of the main caps, and not when doing main bearing clearances. You should be able to do the bearing crush procedure one bearing at a time with no issues.
I'm not sure about whether the bearing crush will remain the same though. I wouldn't think it would change significantly over time or due to use, since then you'd have a higher chance of spinning a bearing later on, and I like to think that the engineers who design the bearings know what they're doing.
Since the actual force holding the bearing in place is directly related to the circumference of the bearing, I don't really think that the length would change significantly.
Honestly, I think you'd be fine to reuse the bearing if all of the measurements come out within spec, and there's absolutely no damage on them, but there's a helluva lot of people who won't reuse a bearing (including many who know far more than me).
Powerplay in Cheltenham built my full race B20Vtec with 173kw @ wheels and he has built many hi end race engines. He backs his work 100% not cheap but you get what you pay for. If you need any more info on my build happy to chat, just PM me.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDMasFCUK
Cheers Gary
Gary your inbox is full mind emptying it? Have a few questions
hi ozhonda guys, look, i really appreciate all the "I was reading the B20VTEC thread and I want a B20 too!" messages...
but just to be clear:
1. no, i dont know of anyone in Sydney or Melbourne (i dont actually live there) who i would recommend to build you an engine.
2. no, i cant tell you all the parts that you need to build one yoursef, or how much it costs, or where to get it all from.
3. yes, i will consider selling my 160kW B20 race engine, but i doubt you could afford my terms.
im not posting this to be rude, but more so that you dont waste too much time punching out a PM to me that i probably wont reply to (unless you tell me that you just won lotto, or something... in which case i'd happily build you an enigine!)
pm tinkerbell if you wanna win lotto
pm sent
People just want to over think there B20Vtec setups and dont listen to the correct people and read to much internet bull about what to do and what not to do,they like all Honda engines are not hard to assemble and if you build them as an OEM build with OEM spec's you will not have any problems the hardest part is finding a good machinist that wont tell you what he has been doing for years on cast iron push rod engines with 2 valves per cyl.
A small hint is find a machine shop that does machining for motorcycle engines because they know about TIGHT clearances because bigger is not always better they also understand how important balancing is with engines.
The other problem is tuning them with STD sleeves I just retuned one that came from a well know shop and is the 2nd one I have redone and it was WAY OVER TIMED and it was a very poor tuning job with only the 100% throttle done the rest of the tune was rubbish with very poor throttle response and it just drove like crap and the other tuner said thats just what B20's do.
yep, Honda engines are easy to 'put together', but you also need the right parts - and the right parts are the ones that are machined correctly, starting with the engine block.
to have a correctly machined block you need a great machinst, so take it to a specialist - not just a workshop that does bore an hones for grocery getters...
then balance, weigh, re-check and re-measure everything before it gets to final assemble, and you know that when it starts up first time you'll be checking for coolant and oil leaks, not where 'that rattle' is coming from...
then you shut it down, put it on a trailer and send to to your tuner for initial break-in and around 8-10 hours of tuning.
easy eh?
and 30'000km later you end up with something that continues to impress with big numbers:
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/a...psb2e14983.jpg