Only thing that blows up b20's is tuners that have no idea what there doing.
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Only thing that blows up b20's is tuners that have no idea what there doing.
Wow. Going down low there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by newpaddy3
Any engine for that matter if take on high rpm at all times will not last. Thats why you see many builders destroking the b20 from 89mm to 87mm (type r, b18c2) crank. Surely we all know higher stroke do not favour high revs as much as a engine with shorter stroke.
Dont matter if cast or forged no engine will last if taken on high rpm at all times.
Anyway just an opinion, each to their own.
What I commented above dont think is offensive. All I stated was it wont last long, dont think its right branding anyone. I mean that is what forums are for correct?
Another factor, but there can be many variables to account for engine failure. It is easy to point fingers isnt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
Our STD Sleeved cast piston'd 84.5mm bore STD stroke B20Vtec was raced for over 12 months rev'd to 9600rpm with no issue's build them right,tune them right 0 engine drama's.People need to stop reading internet BULLSHIT about stroke and bore side loading and start to look into how to assemble and tune an engine correctly then they might not waste money building it with false internet information.Quote:
Originally Posted by zeni-tani
Well I commend you for your expertise mate. But it isnt bullshit, the fact that many reputable tuners and builders have done such set up around the world and me seeing several personally whilst Toda still existed in Sydney I disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
Honda them selves used it on the b18c on the dc2r because it is the best balance for performance and reliability.
Regarding side loading it probably isnt to evident since its only another .89mm diffrence compared to the b18c2/c5/c7 rod. Have you ever popped the motor to check?
Theoretically a longer rod does reduce side wall loading, surely since you're an expert I dont have to explain why.
At the end of the day the devil is in the detail. Building an engine properly is one thing, preperation is also another but the kicker of them all is the builders attention to detail. Its like a chef they all do the same thing but few stick out from others.
It is a discussion thread surely everyone is allowed to express opinions, im not trying to knock anyone out, so I dont see why there is any need for any agressive reactions.
What? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by zeni-tani
350 Chevy uses a bore and stroke of 101.6 mm × 88.4 mm.
Bore and stroke isn't everything.
The fuk you going on about Pat? What are you arguing?
Everything.
Agree with ALLMTR996. Build it properly, tune it properly and it will withstand much abuse. There is certainly a lot of bullshit on the Internet.
And srs there's no point doing a build if you're scared to push it once it's done.
Yep they do and have a STD rod ratio of 1.637 so what are you thing to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by newpaddy3
And the 87.2mm ITR cranked B20's was something that Adrian believed was the best choice for engines he was building and was his opinion where I have and always will use a 89mm or bigger stroke with the way I build engines where the rules allow.
/\ That's pretty much the size of it. :thumbsup:
The cool thing is if you know what you are doing, there are many proven ways of arriving at the same / similar end result in power, torque, rev-ability & reliability.
& there is no set in concrete best way to get to the end result.
When you build a motor for a customer, you do it the best way you know to get the job done & meet the budget & power targets.
Racing refines your builds... & to some extent biases your opinions. That said, you have to respect what other do & take what you can from that & learn from it.
Now,if you're going to do it yourself, you need to gather opinions from those who can & then make your own decision.
If the opinion you're gathering off the net or elsewhere comes from those who haven't actually built any of these things, chances are you're going to come unstuck. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you want something that works, copy a proven combo. The old adage - combination is everything still rings true.
If you want something that is at the sharp end of b-series output, you're likely better off seeking the services of someone who has been there & done that rather than troll forums for vague information.
The best advice I can give is not one engine builder or tuner knows it all,but these E-CLOWNS that post complete rubbish seem to know it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian @ SAS
:) love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
running b20 is the best thing ever trust me
^
What about a B21? IE: Can you stroke/bore a B18 to a B21?
95mm stroke 84mm bore gives you 2105cc engine with a sleeved B18c block yes and the kits are around for this combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
**** I hate SK2 Pro 2 cams....
(they're a bitch to get exactly right)
End gripe....
Pro1 alright? Hehe
Yeah, Pro 1's are easier to get working right :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
I'd like to try a Pro 2 Intake cam with a Pro 1 exhaust cam.
Pretty sure I could get the same peak power & more everywhere else with that combo.
& likely better part/transient throttle power.
Either that or fit smaller tube headers to the motor I'm tuning at the mo.
(But they're DTR's & heaps nice :p)
That cam combo works very well but intake manifold choice is VERY VERY important with the Pro-2 intake cam the ITR style manifold will never give you what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian @ SAS
Cheers for the heads up... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
(& notification of my brick wall :( )
I know what your going thru I have another problem child B20 at the moment with a US ported head and a set of M22x cams it lacks lots
of mid range power and falls struggles to make power above 8000rpm.
has any body got experience with buddyclub absolute racing cams,(I think specVI) on a b20V?
my B20VTEC puts out 160+ and it holds 7 NSW hillclimb championship class records and has over 45'000km on the engine (that was built in my garage)Quote:
Originally Posted by zeni-tani
it is a daily driver and gets revved to 8600 often...
i guess it is not 200'000km *just yet*, but not really sure why you would expect Honda engineering not to last very long?
the current 12.5:1 engine manages around 8.5l/100km, ive had it down to 7.6L/100 on one trip to CBR.Quote:
Originally Posted by eekayfo
the two previous 10:1 engines ran at around 9-10L/100km.
fuel consumption on the road is all down to the quality of (and time spent on) your engine mapping.
Yep there are tons of much better ones on the market,Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge Tom
AGAIN I WILL REPEAT MYSELF NOT ONE THING MAKES POWER IN AN ENGINE ITS A COMBINATION OF THE CORRECT PARTS TO SUIT YOUR APPLICATION
Could you suggest some with similar lift and duration?
No I dont think so without knowing why you would want a similar cam profile and what your complete setup is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge Tom
Ok. B20b. Type-r crank. Pr3 p/p head. Port matched skunk2 mani. Plm big tube header. 13 comp pistons. 2 leaf head gasket. Type-r cut back valves. 70mm throttlebody. 350 walbro pump. 240cc injs. 100 cell cat. 2.5' ex system. Buddyclub spec3+ cams & cam gears. Skunk2 double coilsprings & titanium retainers.
Your injectors are not going to cope
Sorry to be a pest but what car is it in and what gearing and really what are you using the setup for if its a daily I would not even think about advising on a cam profile.What does cut back type-R valves mean std ITR or modified ITR valves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge Tom
Forgot adjustable fuel regulator. Well I had a p72 head with standard valves. And 4 weeks ago upgraded to a pr3 with type-r valves. 4.4 early modle type-r gbox.
Daily and occasionally some Wednesday night drags and Wakefield run. Da9 hasn't been to either yet.
Oh and got a set of OBD0 340cc on hand too.
anyone has some pics of their oil cooler setup on a b18 or b20
Hahah speaking from experience? But u know once u get it right the result is worth it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian @ SAS
Wondering knowledgeable peoples top 3 picks for b20vtec (b20b8, standard bore, b16 head, cams/springs etc) for pistons and rods, any I can buy locally or better off getting elsewhere, cheers
Dave send me a PM and we can talk about a few things
You sound really desperate.Quote:
Originally Posted by stndrd
Not selling enough PLM and penrite?
Hey guys,
just after information/experiences/thoughts on using this piston/rod combo on my b20vtec, are the JE pistons decent?
What other pistons (looking at 84.5mm) do you recommend, with about a 11.5.1 compression ratio
yeah, stick with quality US parts and you cant go wrong, 84.5 is good, 11.5 is OK, but 12.5 is better,
but you must match your cams, head porting and CR to get the best outcome.
the quality of machinist you use is also very important to the end result.
like has been said ad nauseam through out this threa...
yeah, I was just thiking 12.5 might be a little extreme for a daily
who is the general go to guy for b20vtec machining and the like
12.5:1 = free power.
as long as you can get 98 octane, have a very good engine tuner and support package (like good injectors, fuel pump(s), ignition system, ECU, etc) you'll be fine.
my engine tuner organised my machining, so i cant say...
Running 12.7 on 98.
Daily driver. 1.8 though
True. I'll look into it, I don't want to have to upgrade too much
bigger bore/stroke also means that you need less of a dome to achieve the same c/r compared to a b18 or even more b16. huge wedges all up in the chamber can mess with cylinder filling and flame propagation. now im not saying more c/r is bad, or that huge wedges make things worse ;) just its good to know what affect changing something has. much like something that helps the engine breath at high rpm, can hurt it down low... the beauty of c/r is its effect on performance is not rpm dependent, unlike alot of engine components.
if you dont want to spend too much, rs machines are hugely popular cast pistons. and you can get close to 12:1 with a p72 head and some head and block milling. half the price of forgies and give you a nice bump in comp whilst keeping it safe for the street.
are you getting cams?
yeah I was looking into the rs machines too
im thinking of kelfords, but not sure, eventually I do want cams, yes
Stay away from Kelford Cams, I was originally looking to use them but found the support and delivery times as slack.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Dave
I went with Toda C2 for my build and got very good results.
Cheers
Rocket Motorsports M22KE or M24XX are a good option for a highish comp B20
Any reccommendations on pistons and rods? or for a basic build are standard pistons and cams also useable (will be tracked once or twice a year, but a lot of daily driving).
Is anyone here or all asleep?
2.0L
* * * * * 96-02 CRV
Stock Bore: 3.307, 84mm***Stroke: 3.504***Rod Length: 5.394***Gasket: .028***Deck: .005
Bore Comp. Dome Compression w/head cc Gram Part Included
in/mm Height CC LS 45.0cc | B16A 42.7cc | GSR 41.6cc *Wt. Number Ring Set
Dome top * * * * * All motor
3.386 / 86.00 1.180 7.4 13.2 | 13.9 | 14.2 322 3330800 1012283386
14.2:1
Yolo
Use stock rods with arp bolts.
Abos moved onto the k20 thread nowadays
Hey guys.
I've built a b20
84mm rs machine pistons
P72 head
brian crower stage2 na cams
double valve springs
1mm os valves
With 421 headers 2.25" exhaust
and dual runner maifold 3" intake it made 165whp
I swapped to tri y headers 2.5" exhaust and skunk2 manifold whale penis intake and it made 171whp but made less hp up to about 7k an the extra 7hp abouve 7k to 8600 =(
I've just ported the p72 intake manifold for a 68mm tb and going to swap it.
Was wondering if there is a better cam to better suit my engine.
Whats compression?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miniman_Alis
Should be 12:1. Actual compression was 195psi across all 4
was that cold or hot compression? Also where did you have it tuned just out of curiosity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miniman_Alis
Umm I dont remember.. probably cold and dry.
P28 S300 v2 ecu tuned by Rob Novak at my old work, CPWS in jimboomba. He does tuning 999 and definition? Motorsport as well.
So do you guys think all these numbers are half decent? Would a different set of cams give me some better gains?
Hmm tbh I would have thought those cams would be sufficient. By P72 manifold you mean vtir dual runner yeah?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miniman_Alis
Maybe consider swapping it out for a single runner IM to reduce restriction. Ask your tuner to play around with the cam timing if it has adjustable gears. Getting the timing right can make a massive difference with some cam applications.
He said he got junk2 mani alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by Super-DA9
Yea dual runner manifold.
I did get a skunk2 pro intake and like I said it loses heaps down low. Attachment 27237
I ran a few different cam profiles thru Engine Analyzer virtual dyno (awesome program) and skunk2 tuner2 had a better power curve then the brian crower cams.
On that dyno chart the red is the dual runner intake and the blue is the skunk2 intake.
Was there seperate tunes done for each of them? Or just bolt on skunk2 manifold and test?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miniman_Alis
Na new tune for new intake and exhaust.
my lsvtec engine running 12.8 comp is making 225hp on skunk2 pro manifold
Whats done to the head and what cams you running tho?
its got alot of work done to the head ,pnp to the full valve train with sk2 pro 2 cams...im just saying the skunk 2 manifold works great so u shouldnt have a problem...
- whoops
Hey guys, Sorry to revive an old thread..
I have a DC2 and wanting to do a b20 swap..
I have;
- B20b motor
- p72 head
- aftermarket cams and valve train
- vtec conversion kit
- breather set up
- golden eagle VRS kit (seals & gasket)
- arp headstuds
- arp rod bolts
pretty much all the main parts that is required
.. I just want to know who I can go to nowadays just to assemble the parts (assemble the long motor & refreshen up bottom end -rings and bearings)
I wont be doing anything spectacular...
Read the how to build a reliable b20 thread and build it yourself.
If I had the tools and time, honestly i would do it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Miniman_Alis
Where abouts are you?
Sydney, Liverpool metroQuote:
Originally Posted by Miniman_Alis
I've got a few quotes but it seemed way toooo much just to assemble everything together.. Maybe the fact because its a "B20VTEC rah rah rah"
Its usually about 1-2k to machine and assemble.
doesn't look like he's doing anything to the block. What would need machining?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miniman_Alis
I would be putting bearings and arp bolts in it. And probably rings if i wanted to just slap it together.
I would be putting in 13:1 compression pistons new rods and what's mentioned above if I wanted to just slap it together.
I'll be replacing rings, bearings, machine the block..
So anyone knows who i can contact in sydney? Preferably a workshop with a license, no bodgy backyard shit
edit first post; I do have arp studs and rod bolts to go with it
needs more high comp pistons
I have a b18b stroked to around 2L with darton sleeves ... Looking to rebuild it was thinking of going down the b18c 87.4 mm crank shaft as opposed to the 89 mm ls crank .... What is your thought on this change people ... I know id loss low down torque... It will run e85 and m24xx cams on supatech valves and springs