Care to elaberate on the process of killing the stock system and replacment of the newer one?
What involved etc?
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Care to elaberate on the process of killing the stock system and replacment of the newer one?
What involved etc?
interesting, as my sisters civic cxi did not come with a RED key(previous owner lost it). and she only has one key for the car, Honda said we needed to change the entire alarm/immobiliser system if we had lost our only one BLACK key. So shes extra cautious about her car keys.
Is this true what I've been told?
New immobiliser system they quoted was about 1400??
yes its trueQuote:
Originally Posted by CONAN
but parts only cost about $700
Okay here's the definitive answer, no urban legends, no confusion. This was experienced first hand. If i'm wrong its cos honda dealership is wrong ok? :)
depending on where u go... the cost can go up to 1000 to fix it up if u lose both keys. I went with my mate to go to eastern honda, basically we were told:
1. The Black key contains the kill switch, basically a piece of magnet emitting a frequency that turns an electronic "switch" to allow u to start/lock the car
2. The red key just gives u a template to cut the black key, it does NOT contain the kill switch.
3. The kill switch frequency is NOT unique and CAN be defeated easily. What this means is that there are a relatively small number of frequencies and the Honda Dealership can work out your frequency even if you lose your black key.
4. the ignition control key chamber (basically the slot u push ur key in, fancy term, their words not mine) however, IS UNIQUE for every car. They do NOT keep records and there is no way for honda to "reverse engineer" a key for u if u lose black and red.
What does this all mean?
If you lose the red key ONLY: you can start your car no problems
if you lose the black key ONLY: you CANNOT start your car normally, but u can get ur red key, give it to honda to make you a new black key with a kill switch. They get the frequency by examining your car.
(ps: there is a dodgey way around this, my mechanic had to hotwire my car cos i left the place with the red key in the glove box but my black keys in my pocket. So to get the car into his garage he used a set of magnets or SOMETHING to kill the killswitch. apparently really easy thing to do)
if you lose BOTH keys, however, you are going to get screwed.
You do not have to pay for a new kill switch b/c as i said before honda can determine the frequency from your car.
BUT, honda has to completely replace your ignition control key chamber (again, the slot where u put ur keys in) b/c for security and privacy reasons they dont keep a record of what your chamber looks like and the matching key and also they CANNOT reverse engineer it. This is where the big $$ comes in cos ur basically asking for 2 new keys + the chamber
Now here is the unconfirmed rumor i heard from a friend of a friend who knew some guy. Apparently if u can get another honda with same chamber size (i think all civics eg/ek are the same, all dc2 gsi/vtir/type r are the same, etc) you can actually REPLACE your chamber yourself, hence saving u a lot of money. BUT the prerequisite is again that you need to have at least ONE key from the new chamber u got off the other car, cos once again honda cant reverse engineer the key bla bla bla
The
Another thing to add, sorry for the confusion before but i didnt mean "remove" the kill switch as in physically remove.
According to my mechanic you cant do this cos it goes into the ECU wiring or osmething. So basically the immobilser HAS to be in your car for it to start (i'm sure there are ways around this but thats too complicated for me and it'll cost you more than the followign solution)
So taking a tip from a few mates i know in HK, what they do is
1. Rip their black key apart
2. Take out the magnet/kill switch/thingie
3. Stick it (permanently) right near the kill switch ( i THINK its on the right hand side of the steering wheel, near the mirror adjustment pad)
4. Get a new immobiliser/alarm aftermarket
This has been the proven, cheapest, easiest way to get past it
some of the things you say are totaly wrong Ghost
the only unique thing about the immobiliser is the Wire wound RFID capsual in the keys. red keys are no different to black keys, the concepts is the same, the immobiliser control unit just sees the red key codes as the learn key. each key will have a code like this for example
black key 1 010101110010001110010
black key 2 111000101010110101001
red key 101010000111001010100
as you can see adventually all posible codes could be generated, but it would take a while with some kind of hacking mechanism. but it is posible to copy that code.
the lock in the ignition has an electronic reciver which powers the key to tranmit its code. there is nothing unique there and this part is interchangable with all hondas ( if you could make it fit ) the code recived from the key is sent to the immobiliser ECU, if it is accepted the immobiliser allows the PGMFI ECU to start the car. the PGMFI ECU has a code programed into it to only trust the immobiliser ECU ( you cant just change OBDII ecu with out reprogramming the immobiliser code )
if you loose you RED key you are ok until you want to add another genuine Honda black key.
if you loose a black key and have only 1 black key and no RED key, your ok but you cannnot add another genuine Honda black key.
if you loose both black keys and have the red key, your in the crapper.
you can find some lock smiths that can copy your black keys.
if you need to replace everything because your left with no choice, the parts cost about $700. then the install price.
you CAN remove the factory immobiliser. it is posible, but its not a walk in the park.
i'm not saying ur wrong dude but that was SO NOT WHAT we were told my Eastern Honda : (... but in any case my mate had NO KEYS so yeh total replacement of that key chamber,.
What i have basically done is (as i said above) implanted my chip next to the kill switch (my mechanic did it) so my immboliser is always off : )
hey guys i have only 1 black key and someone has made a copy key. So it is possible to copy them. I only got 1 original key so it couldn't be that hard to make a copy when i have an aftermarket key to drive the car isit?
Another question while on the topic of spare keys, say you already had a black key with the little magnet thing inside(I'm assuming is what the immobiliser needs to start the car).
Can you tell them to rip it out and put it in the new key to get around the whole $99 to reprogram it? I know I can definately rip the little thing out(its just pushes into place, I can literally push it out myself)
I don't want to go sticking things permanently to my car, just a spare key will do :)
ECU-MAN: "you can find some lock smiths that can copy your black keys."
do you know of any locksmiths who will do such thing???? If so, please let me know, as I am in the 'crapper'! Thanks.
syd.
Hmm, this has made me think I should probably get a spare key cut.
I bought the car a month ago and the previous owners had lost the spare.
I sure don't want to be stuffing around with Honda if I lose my one and only key.
So $200 for a spare? That might be good insurance.
Hi guys.
While on this topic, (I know it’s a bit old now..) I need some help.
I have 1 black key, which is falling apart.. and NO red key.
I bought a key from Honda ($95) not knowing about this whole red key business… I don’t want to put a new immobiliser in like Honda say I have to…
I am thinking of either;
1. putting my chip next to the kill switch, or
2. (preferred) Finding someone to code the key I bought from Honda.
I am in Melbourne. Car is civic EK1. built OCT ’95
Please someone help!
thanks