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More than anything. More than hektci coilovers or whatever - jsut get a rear swaybar or upgraded rear swaybar to make a noticeable difference to your FWD's handling :)
Make sure you are running decent tyres and a decent alignment too.
Everything else can come later.
BEAKS kit is not swaybar, its swaybar re-enforcement kit.
As 19mm seems too thick for your non-type r chassis, you will need a re-enforcement kit.
that m-factory swaybar kit dont look that good to me...
that tie bar with big plate could secure the mounting, but there is no support for the subframe and swaybar, leaving the issue of swaybar tearing the subframe under load.
I have seen other m-factory products and they seem very good,
however, rear swaybar issue for civics and integras been covered many times in this forum.
to go anything thicker than stock(14mm??), will need re-enforcement kit to prevent extra cost fixing torn subframe, not cheap.
I got my CTR(22mm) with beaks kit for 310 from yonas, JDMyard.
CTR 22mm swaybar was matched to CTR sport suspension(not racing spec), so it is never too much.
Get OEM goodies so you can sell at the price you bought for!
(I dont know how much I will get for beaks kit but $150 seems to be the set price for secondhand TYPE R spec swaybars.
The tie-bar/subframe brace that comes with our kit is more than adequate for the 19mm swaybar that we supply it with. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have matched the two items together. Do a simple search on Honda-Tech and you will find various feedback on how our kit feels/performs ;)
At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference just how stiff you want the rear (and how balanced your car is). BIG is not always better.
Also to mention, subframe tear only affects the EK chassis. It does not affect the EG (which the OP has) ;)
Even whitelines original EK did not have any subframe problem.
that is with the kit with out the re-enforcement plate like newer ones.
Still ripped subframes on other ek's.
To be more precise, that m_factory kit does not re-enforce subframe.
It does not provide any support on the other side of the subframe where the swaybar is not mounted.
It only seem to hold the swaybar bracket to the subframe and tie bar.
If you do some search on beaks or ASR re-enforcement kit, you can see why they are widely used.
They also include back plate to 'RE-ENFORCE' bothside of the subframe.
Please provide more information how your kit is actully 're-enforcing' the subframe.
'dont need that much' or 'our kit is good enough' with out any supporting fact is never enough for any company to explain their product.
As I have never seen anyone in person that has the kit or have experience with the kit, I would like more infromation from a dealer.
Even the price isnt too bad, havn't seen anyone talking about it.... may be it your chance to properly explain why the kit is good!
Yes, 22mm is pretty big compared to stock, but I dont think it is never too big.
I still have fair amount of rolling as my strut setup is poor,(only springs changed over...) so it is still far from a product that eleminate rolling.
And if I compare m-factory kit with my setup(CTR bar with BEAKS) as the price is similar, M-factory product can only stick with its spec.
But if I want to change, I can just change the swaybar.
M-factory kit MAY well be enough for its swarbar supplied, but definately too weak for... let say CTR/ITR/WHITELINE.... (22mm and up).
Please dont get me wrong, Most of the M-Factory products look like quality parts and differs to many EBAY crap.
Its just that some companies do not understand the fact that civics and integras have subframe issues, or maybe they dont count this matter too much when they are designing their kit.
Nowhere in my statement did I say that our kit "reinforces" the subframe. Our tie-bar/subframe brace is NOT a subframe reinforcement kit like the ASR or Beaks (of which, btw, not even Beaks themselves recommend you use too thick a bar with their kit on an EK. Even they tell you to go ASR), and it does not need to be, as its designed to use our 19mm swaybar, not the larger 22mm.
The design of our tiebar/subframe brace is enough to prevent subframe tear on an EK chassis when used with our 19mm swaybar. Nowhere do we mention a thicker bar to be used.
What you have done is slated a product by adding in variables that simply do not apply to the product and its use. I do not see why I need to provide further information and supporting facts for something that is not relevant to our product.
Plus, as mentioned in my last statement, the original poster has an EG, not an EK. Subframe tear, in this case, does not apply.
It was never my intention to dis your product.
IMO if you are going anything stiffer then stock (around 14mm), you will need re-enforcement.
At the same time, I dont think upgraded 18mm from stock 14mm is going to do too much.(it will since the car has none at the moment)
And yes the EK subframe is weaker then eg or dc since it has the same mounting points but shorter subframe.(that extra subframe thats not on EK provides extra subframe.
I have a friend who has BC n+ and ITR bar on eg.
He didnt feel his swaybar was safe,he actually went and bought ASR kit.
As you clearly mentioned, no re-enforcement.... it make the kit even more unsatisfying...
What this car needs, is what I needed, and I have solved it, and I am giving my best recomendation based on my own experience.
For the price being, having a OEM bar with re-enforcement seems to be the best choice for this car IMO.
Yes, on an EK chassis, if you are using anything thicker than the oem 14mm, then you will need either a reinforcement kit to strengthen the mounting points (e.g ASR, Beaks) OR a subframe brace which takes some of the load off the swaybar mounting points (e.g MFactory, Comptech and ASR as well) and spreads them over the entire brace and also onto the LCA mounting point.
For a thick 22mm, you will need reinforcement as well as minimal load. This is why ASR is the way to go and not Beaks. Beaks is a cheap alternative that has seen countless number of failures. For a 19mm, reinforcement is optional, but you will need to remove some of that load.
Oh, and believe me when I say this, 14mm to 19mm is a hell of a difference. 5mm of extra solid metal is like night and day, just as 19mm to 22mm is a big jump also.
Mfactory one is just like old whiteline kit for EK.Quote:
Originally Posted by ......a subframe brace which takes some of the load [i
I do not believe it will do such a thing you say.
Beaks kit is much better since the mounting position is solid block compare to m-factory and whiteline's flare type.
Comptech kit looks even weaker then the new whiteline for ek...
Just because of similar design, its not appropriate to put those two kit with ASR together.
Material wise, completely different, built quality too is different!
ASR kit is a complete re-enforcement + tie bar together.
Mfactory one and comptech is just a swaybar kit with tiebar.
Just because the mounting bracket is big and swaybar and tiebar mounts together, it doesnt look any better then old whiteline kit with tiebar.
If you are putting a swaybar on a car came without one, or upgrading,
re-enforcing the the subframe it self first makes more sense to me.
BEAKS do have additional tie bar as well.
I understand what you are on about, but I dont understand why you are trying to put your product in the same line of others.
Even most coilovers look similar to each other too, but quality differs.
If you actually re-read through my post again, you'll will realize exactly what I'm trying to say and what I am (and am not) comparing our kit to. Obviously you kind of missed the whole point of what I was trying to say, judging by your last post.
Well, there is obviously nothing that I can say that will match your highly-experienced knowledge of this matter, so I'll just leave it at that and let OzHonda members decide themselves ;)
I am no high-experienced at all! :p
When I got my swaybar setup, it took me few weeks of research.
You did give information good enough but lacked on your particular product.
All kits are sold when they are tested and ready to be sold.
But whiteline failed on some. (Still, 100x more EK's without problem too!!)
Your kit looks different, but the main structure looks very similar to whiteline.
To me, whiteline(old design) swaybar kit for civics and integras isnt the best choice. (same reason I have dout on your product)
I wanted to hear some better facts on your swaybar kit over some those that are known for less perfect.
Sorry that I messed up the thread.
This isnt a thread to diss or praise different swaybar + reinforcement designs. It is to discuss about swaybars/spring rates etc as per your initial question.
I have cheked the swaybar 19mm "kit" advertised on the above mentioned website , and it includes mounting for the bar and a tiebar in one piece. It is a very old design which i have seen on EK + EG's quite a few years ago.
But to the safety and longevity of it i have no comment.
OK! Looks like there's been some hearty discussion on this topic. As I said, I'll probably order the MFactory kit. It doesn't seem to me that anybody is saying that my subframe is under threat on my Gli body 2 door EG so I'm pretty satisfied. I'll definitely post up the resulting effect on the handling of the car. I'm pretty certain my car has NO rear sway at all so I think there will be a significant improvement. Hopefully without excess lift-off oversteer! Thanks everyone... Gary... if you have any ideas as to how to fit simply, let me know. If I encounter issues with the exhaust I'll drop you a line ...
Now... off to the wife for some serious bargaining!