89.95 kw Atw... just intake
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89.95 kw Atw... just intake
90.3 kw atw... Stock as a rock
just wanted to ask... when ppl say dynos differ...fair enoguh i realise they differe between dynos that take measurements off the wheel and hub... but for the same TYPE...would there be discrepencies\./
Yes...... there still is discrepencies even for same brand and model of dyno.
There are alot of things that will cause this from obvious things like air temp and altitude to the actual software being run.
I'm sure others will be able to enlighten you further and in greater detail to what I have provided.
B16a2......is the lower rating, the higher rating is after a rebuild and a bigger block, not really a b16a2 after that now.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...lb16/dyno1.bmp
Thats about 137.7kW for reference
Thanks, I dont even know what kw stands for or how to do the equasionQuote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
kw = kilowatts. open up a physics book for a definition:D
Yeah thanks......Quote:
Originally Posted by sivic
So what mods on the B16 for the 160 you hit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Illegal
For the 160whp I had honda itr 96 cams, cai, 4-1 si header, cat back exaust, engine mounts, hondata s100, intake manifold....I think that was about it. Obviously I had more done, but nothing that would wield whp.
This is what I have now....
I need to do this at least once....
Password Jdm Whale penis carbon fibre intake
str 68mm throttle body
skunk 2 intake manifold
aem fuel pressure regulator
b and m fuel guage
440 rc injectors
b16a2 '00si head
titanium valve springs/retainers
skunk 2 stage 2 cams
aem cam gears
b18 '98 gsr block bored over to a 1.85lt 82mm.
stock gsr crank and rods
'00 si pr3 pistons
11.43 compression
Hondata s100 obd1 ecu - p28
Megan racing stainless 4-1 type-r header 2.5 inch collector
test pipe
greddy evo full back exaust
b16a2 '00 si tranny
competition clutch stage 2
clutchmaster lightened flywheel
skunk 2 short shifter and weighted shift knob
energy suspension trans-mount bushings (shifter poly bushings)
inline pro solid steel and poly engine mounts
gsr radiator
brembo slotted rotors
hawk hps break pads
stainless steel break lines
ground control coilovers
tokico blues struts in the front
Tokico illuminas (whites) five way adjustables in the rear
New 5 way adjustable upper control arms in the front
front upper typ-r frame bar
rear upper strut bar
rear lower tie bar
Tuned to 185 whp and 135 wheel torque, best 1/4 miletime at 14.2 on street tires. I am about to redo the head, buy some slicks and retune my vtec, intake cam gear setting, valve gap and fuel set up.
I think thats everything so far, I'll edit if i forgot something mechanical.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...6/IM000105.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...6/IM000107.jpg
damn, thats impressive!
The 160 was without the block, throttle body and with type-r cams instead of the skunk 2 stage 2 cams. (so also no valve springs/retainers) and with stock injectors also.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEEDCORE
From the list you provided above, the only power performance enhancing items are:
Aem type-r cai
skunk 2 intake manifold
b16a2 '00si head - STOCK ITEM!
ITR Cams
AEM cam gears
Hondata s100 obd1 ecu - p28
Megan racing stainless 4-1 type-r header 2.5 inch collector
test pipe
greddy evo full back exaust
So you're claiming you hit 160whp with these items on a stock B16 bottom end? ......
I dont believe this at all !
ok, this is the low down, AGAIN, for the 160 whp and 109 tourque,
Aem type-r cai
skunk 2 intake manifold
type-r cams
unused cam gears (aem)
stock b16a2 head and block
fpr aem
4-1 dc sport ceramic b16 header (not the megan type-r with the 2.5 collector)
high flow cat
greddy evo cat back
engine mounts from inline pro
hondata s100 p28 obd1 ecu.
cluthch and fly that doesnt matter for a dyno pull and shifter/bushings that dont matter.
I did the block upgrade to the 1.85 litre 82mm bore and the throttle body, and injectors and the new bigger header and a test pipe, with a retune and picked up 25whp and 25 tourque. Whats not to believe. i am replacing the head here soon because of smoke issues, and have to retune because it's a bit rich, so i will have another dyno sheet in a month or so I hope.
I dont think i forgot anything. Believe it or not, no difference to me. I did a best at the 1/4 on street tires at a 14.2, and I will hit a 13 with the car fixed and some slicks. Body work is next priority after the head, the breaks and suspention have just been redone, and I am about to add in some lower sway bars, but thats all i can think i have done.
The tuneing was done at www.inlinepro.com please go to the gallery and check out the team.
and the engine builders are on www.fastestfwdstreetcars.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
Isnt it from a US dyno - which tend to give inflated readings compared to our OZ dynos ?
( IMO judged from common readings shown on Hondatech , d-series.org etc in comparison to local readouts )
STILL....nice numbers ! show us a dyno printout !
Can you please detail what the block upgrade to 1.85L, 82mm is all about?
from my calculations, an 84mm bore on a stock B16 bore/crank combination will only yield 1.7L. (assuming you're still using the stock crank)
82mm is still in the 1.6L range (not 1.8L)
If the crank has changed, well then technically this isnt a B16 anymore.
Civic VTIR
I/h/e + hi flow r33 skyline cat + Vafc = 100.7 kw
I think we all should remember that in America they use different dyno machines to us over here. (i.s. as also mentioned by bennjamin)
who cares what power a car puts to the wheels..its not about that..if a car makes 120kw at the wheels in 4th at 6000rpm whats the use of that...? but the owner will go around saying that he made 120kw but that dont mean shit...i have seen skylines with 400hp only do mid to high 13s why because big hp dont mean quick times..then i have seen gsr lancers with 200hp pull mid to low 13s...why because it has better low to mid range power than a big turbo big hp skyline.
164 WHP with P73 ported head and CTR pistons. This was on a Dynojet in Norway @ sea level.
instead of talking fairytale power figures lets talk how quick your cars ran down the quarter mile....and gtec timers are full of crap.
what?who is talking fairytales?? i'd power down a quarter mile to hear one, play school is full of crap. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by albii
I still would like to know more about this 1.85L 82mm engine
I assume you're using a B18C Crank @82mm = 1.84L
or a B18A/B Crank @82mm = 1.88L
The new setup mentions he used a GSR Block B18 stock GSR rods and crank (orginal bore 81mm) overbored to 82mm that means you would of had to used oversized pistons i didn't know if they make factory PR3 pistons with a 82mm size???
Specs
B18C GSR
Bore: 82mm (stock is 81mm)
Stroke: 87.20mm
B16A (PR3) Head
Combustion Chamber Volume: 42.70cc
PR3 Pistons give you 6.01cc piston dome displacement...
Head gasket I lets assume stock 3 layer OEM ~ 0.7366mm (0.029in)
Using this calculator
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/c...c/compcalc.php
Theoretically you get a 11.6 CR and displacement being 1842cc
I think your probably using .25 oversized pistons... I dont think you can get 82mm factory honda pistons... However i do know Wiseco K566M82 is a 82mm bore piston but thats aftermarket
Quote:
"The 160 was without the block, throttle body and with type-r cams instead of the skunk 2 stage 2 cams"
I'm confused,
So you made 160HP (120kW) with a stock B16 + ITR cams?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Mustang dyno's are overinflated, if you go to the www.inlinepro.com , they show what kind they have, and it auto adjusts for temp and what not. If the adjust was off it would have read an inaccurate Higher set of numbers, but it is never off.
I said in the first list that it is a 98 gsr block bored over to an 82mm then honed. I used 82 mm b16a2 pistons to get a compression of 11.43, the 1.8 and a half litre was a guess of size after the over bore. All this is listed in the previous post with the picks, including that i am now useing a stock gsr crank and rods.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
I answerd this question above 1 page ago last night, I even redid the list. Ask a question once...I will answer it, then ask another, Different question. I could always just answer with quotes I suppose. :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowzer
Wow, I came up with 11.43 using that calculator a month ago....11.6? I'll do it again. I did use a stock head gasket, and aftermarket stock copy pr3 pistons. They may have been Wiseco's. Stock they make 81, 81.5, and 82mm I was told. (at least in the ctr pistons, which If I have to do any block work again I will be upgrading too.
What piston to deck height did you use. With the b16 I got the 11.64, and with the b18 I got 11.32
I have the b16a2 head so i guess it is 11.64 compression! (btw I've have this site on my favorites for ever, It's very handy)
Good numbers. That is on the same dyno and sea level as me, and those #'s sound right on. Got a sheet or a 1/4 mile time?Quote:
Originally Posted by strepto
Quote:
Originally Posted by albii
Good point, thats why I posted my times right off the bat.
Perhaps you did, Must be the New Zealand accent. :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by Illegal
Let me answer it for you... I'm still not down with these claims,
I guess a 10kw oversated US dyno is a possibility
Quote:
ok, this is the low down, AGAIN, for the 160 whp and 109 tourque,
Aem type-r cai
skunk 2 intake manifold
type-r cams
unused cam gears (aem)
stock b16a2 head and block
The dyno is right, the sheet and tuning and car is not a "CLAIM", I have nothing to prove but to add constructively to this thread. I see by the name you tune....you should know better. What dyno do you use? You should understand how this works. What times should I be running then? My friend has the exact same whp #'s and tourqe and runs a 13.02 in a 92 hatch that is 200lbs lighter with slicks. He is beating me by over a second at the track on weight and slicks alone! I'll get him on the highway though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
Looks like I'm # 12 on the site for right now as well.
The fact I dyno many B16's is why I questioned your results.
I have not seen any B16's out here that make 160HP is stock trim
The cams and hondata did a lot for me, I will try top find a dyno of before those were installed.
I have seen as much of a difference as 10whp on stock engines with no mods period.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...6typercams.bmp
Sorry it's so small, have to save it a zoom in. This is my only 3 dyno's before the block swap. The first is pretty basic, just with a few bolt on and i think a vafc. I cant remember what was done for the second one, I think the first and second were just a baseline run and an after tuning run. the third is the one with the hondata and type-r cams i believe. The previous post that had the new dyno was a comparisson of the best (last dyno) with the completed one up to date. So this is all of the sheets i own. As you can see i started from megal beginings as well. Maybe your conversion calculator is wrong?
The air fuel is also on this one.
I just did a dyno run last night
Previous run Stock 90kw
Last night run Pod + cannon 93.8kw
10 pages of useless whinging.
Honestly !
Look, the guy from USA is posting the figures he got and im sure he didnt expect the negative 'please explain' from a few hot-under-the-collar members here. Now im not having a go at anyone but whats the value in argueing over someones figures when they are being honest with dyno readings just to please some silly request. ProECU, mate i know you know your stuff but i am struggling to see the point of argueing over all of this. I can add a few colourful dyno reading ive had over the years but theres no need. (WA members know what i mean)
As the title says. "Your B16A Dyno results"
Let the OH members post what they got and if you have a querie then ask it, instead of replying in a spite of disbelief. Once again we are acting like school kids argueing over dyno machines.
Time to move on i think..
Relax mate, Bad day at the office?
I just couldnt work out if that result was a B16 or B18.
seems you're only adding to the bitching once it was over. Good work
LOL.
No im fine mate and i apologise if you think ive added to the arguement. But the obvious point is that we're having another useless arguement comparing different dyno machines.
For the record:
B16A2 with full I.H.E got 125HP@wheels - 14.8 1/4 mile
B18cR with full I.H.E got 149.5HP@wheels - 14.2 1/4 mile
same car, same machine
Now those figures are pretty much true to form, but many of us over here remember i got a crazy reading of 152.6HP@wheels with my stock B16A2 a few years ago. It didnt make any sense but thats what the dyno printed ;)
B16A2 - T3/4 Turbo Charged (6.5psi) - Hondata Tunned
APC in Brisbane
125.5kw@wheels
I dont think its useless.
It's good to flush out these arguments and educate everyone involved (yes including myself).
I dont tend to look too much at peak power figures, but more the manner in which they are obtained. This is key to explaining variances & identifying combinations that work.
This is why I tend to question so much.
Forgive those who have a thirst for knowledge & question the given, dont shoot them!
Yes :)
As I said I wasnt having a go at you and I myself like to see what mods get power etc. Just from what i was reading, the poor dude living in USA was trying his best to provide as much info as he could and he was still being put up to scrutiny.
Anyway, I agree with you regarding this "I dont tend to look too much at peak power figures, but more the manner in which they are obtained. This is key to explaining variances & identifying combinations that work." message.
Have a look at the stock ECU vs JDM ITR ecu and Mugen ECU comparison dyno chart i posted some 4 weeks ago, I forgot the thread. All 3 ECU's got the same top end power but their power curves were vastly different.
Since we're getting into the Boost power figures....
stock B16, T3 turbo .48AR, MP manifold, stock exhaust 4.5psi, ProECU Tuned = 151kW (200WHP)
stock B16, GT28, AVO Log Manifold, Custom exhaust, 6.5psi , ProECU Tuned = 136kW (181HP)
... and some more NA tunes
stock B16 + ITR Cams, NA, ProECU Tuned, 105kW (140HP)
stock B16 , ProECU Tuned = 109kW (145HP)
I got 11.6 by changing the bore size from 81mm to 82mm otherwise you be calculating the CR for a 81mm bore... (B18C1/C5 Block in the options)Quote:
Originally Posted by Illegal
As for a 82mm oversize I have not yet come across a OEM Honda one in that size
So the tune with the itr cams is lower overall than just stock? Weird. I guess one motor can just start out stronger than another from the factory, at least a bit. Maybe one was broken in or taken care of better, or maybe the timing is different on one, or compression, or is the tuning better on one than the other?Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
Any chance of charts? I'm interested at seeing the curves in these. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
Also glad you ladies have got over your rags so quickly. ;)
Why does this suprise you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Illegal
Take a look at relative piston speeds (engine geometry) between B16 & B18C versus cam lift/duration of these motors and you'll understand why.
As for graphs, i'll post some up when I get a chance
ANYONE I know with a cam upgrade on a b16, if they are not overcamming the engine, actually gained horsepower. A set of itr cams is an upgrade, but bassed on your results it is a waste of money. I GAINED hp when I did the itr cams, so thats why I'm confused. My dyno sheets directly show the oposite.
I understand that the cam duration is different, thats the point of why the itr cams are an upgrade, not something that should slow the motor down. It looks like a dyno of a type-r putting stock b16 cams in and taking out the good ones! Just my opinion. In 7 years I've never seen or heard of that. I also called www.inlinepro.com and they were as confused as me over the results. EVERY car they have dynoed has shown an improvement with an uopgraded cam, unless the customer installed a cam that was to large for the compression and displacement to actually use that cam.
Mate you're missing the point.
R cams did make more power over stock. 96kw->105kw
but tuned stock cams made MORE power.
I dont care what inline pro say, and you need to define WHY R cams are an upgrade in a B16. Different doesn not equal Upgrade. That is not a logical statement.
Yes R cams in a B16 IS a waste of money
With no fuel and not the right timming the r cam would be a waste. Also what was your air/fuel ratio's. What was the total ignition timing on the one with the r cam. I AM NOT trying to be a dick, or undermine you in any way, or give you a hard time, or start a fight, I'm just trying to understand why everything your saying goes against everything I've learned by some of the top engine builders andfastest fwd street cars in the country.
*edit* I posted this up on a few other forums, and everyone has been getting a big laugh so far. (whole subject/thread). Everyone asked me to tell you in the nicest possible way to stop tuning please.
yeah ok whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
I got my OLD r cams for $150, and the S2S2 for $300!
Quick question....If I dynoed at 185whp and 135tq and then retuned later, but there was a 30 degree difference in temp-to the warmer-and 40% more humidity, what would I lose #'s wise on the dyno from that change alone?
http://www.hondatech.com.au/hondata/kpro/3-web.jpg
Peak power was at around 7700rpm.
Mods :
K&N pod
OBX SS 4-2-1 (top stuff :rolleyes: )
Hi-Tech 2.5" SS exhaust
ED6 w/ JDM B16A Hondata S200
(Redline 88.7kW atw)
i got mine B16A2 SiRII with 150+ HP@wheel with torque 14.0 kgm .
Honda civic 1994 EG9
Stock B16A2 with LSD tranny
ECU P30 chipped FEEL`S chip + Greddy Emanage (blue).
SPOON CAI
Custom made extractor 4-2-1
2.25" test piping
straight 2" high flow muffler
15" Rota lighten Wheel
gota scan dyno result but got 122hp@wheel or 92kw i think
mugen 4-1 headers
simota whales penis intake
stock cat and 2.25 piping with middle bullet and high flow muffler
exedy clutch
what should me next mod be? and wud it make lotsa diff if i remove the stock cat? anyone selling test pipe?
power wise probably won't be a big difference, but if you get busted it will most likely make a big difference to ur wallet size. We are talking about 10k fine here.
EF8 SiR (stock) B16a1
82kw atw @ 162KPH, 222.2nm @55KPH
Granham West Workshops (SA)
Power runs done in 4th gear
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...u/1e095791.jpg
stock bottom end b16 with CTR cams, valve springs , Type R im + tb , BC header , s100
this is equal to 159.8 hp@wheel
EG4 hatch B16A2, intake + exhaust + S100
104Kw ATW @8000rpm in 4th gear
APC 29-07-06
man juz with s100 u got 104kw and i only have 92kw withoug ecu...wud ecu make much diff without modding internals?
also eg5 stock bottom end meaning u changed pistons or stock ones?
119.2 kw atw for a b16a how much money you spent on that block ? Is it easy to use the same parts and make other b16a producing 119 kw or close to that ? What valve springs were they ? What is type r im + tb ?
intake manifold & throttle body.
lol thanks
thats the most ive heard of a naturally aspirated b16a producing 119 kw atw so very keen on info
Engine totally stock internally and it's done 195K as well. Yes the S100 did make a huge difference to responsiveness and top end power.Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel b16a
stock bottom end means stock piston , stock rods .Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel b16a
untouch block
Anyone seen the latest fast fours or auto salon mag with the b16a civic turbo with 365 kw atw street legal, with the stock looking exterior. 11.4 sec quarter mile time and 10750 rpm redline.
Complete stunner of a car!!!
holy dooly, thats huge for the mods! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by EG5
what 1/4 did you run??
seems a little low :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by SiR Feoc
my ef8 near stock.
exhaust
intake/highflow filter.
two different runs on 2 different dynos one at 101kw atw the other at 104kw atw
was yours a 4th gear run??Quote:
Originally Posted by j3z3z
speaking to others with SiRs and they rekon 80-85kw atw is around the normal mark for a stock b16a :confused:
Exhaust and CAI getting done soon i'l post up results when done.
the black EK by Hypertune???Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrrevolution
\
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
think Yonas did 14.5, but apparently that was on his bad day.
Yeh the black EK hatch by hypertune :-)
Yes, correct. The whole engine is as I purchased it from Asian Auto spares.Quote:
Originally Posted by EG5
Head hasn't been touched either. So that means the engine is totally stock internally as far as I'm aware.
Daniel B16A - yes an S100 with tuning will make a difference on an internally stock engine.
Yes but at what MPH as that will show true power as with 119kw it should have run over 100mph in a EG and the ET should be in the high 13's.Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
ALLMTR996
i got 120kW on toda dyno and ran a 14.5 too? at 95mph...Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
Yonas's car has a high peak power but makes no torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
Peak power & peak torque arrive together at 8500rpm.
My apprentice's EG6 makes only 110kw but loads more torque than Yonas through the rev range.
Though they have the same car, he runs 13.4 @ 100mph with 9kw less.
More area under the curve makes for a quick car.
High peak power numbers are fairly meaningless if the power delivery isn't linear.