K series NA or B series Turbo???

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Originally Posted by FastFwd

sorry kwayzivietnamese i've heard of people pushing them as high as 11psi and thats something i can definitely believe as many people do it but 16psi is a different story. I need someone who can vouch for his car on 16psi or another b series running 16psi.

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Umm if you didnt realise ... a spoon crate motor runs much higher compression then your standard type r b18c7 motor .. so running 11psi on my spoon crate motor is as good as running 15-16psi on a standard b18c7 motor.
Having said that ... you got 2 setups right infront of you .. both that have dyno sheets to back them up as well as a video of mine ... both setups were daily driven .. both were unopened standard internals, and both have reputable tuning houses that will vouch for it as they tuned it themselves first hand ... mate doesnt get any more solid proof then that ...

i'm curious as to what a spoon crate motor is? what differentiates it from a stock standard b18? how do you run higher compression with same internals as a stock motor?

sorry for noob qs but gotta learn somehow?

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the spoon crate motor a little stronger? yeh it may have a slightly higher comp ratio but it is stronger right?

Listen guys im not trying to get you fired up but ive blown a high comp setup myself running 7psi. It wasnt a tune because the map was fine. and the engine was fresh out of japan with less than 60 thou on it. Sorry to doubt you guys its just hard for me to believe as alot of others have blown there setups on much less than 16psi before also.

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Originally Posted by FastFwd

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the spoon crate motor a little stronger? yeh it may have a slightly higher comp ratio but it is stronger right?

Listen guys im not trying to get you fired up but ive blown a high comp setup myself running 7psi. It wasnt a tune because the map was fine. and the engine was fresh out of japan with less than 60 thou on it. Sorry to doubt you guys its just hard for me to believe as alot of others have blown there setups on much less than 16psi before also.

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stronger it is not. just blueprinted with higher compression. no sleeves etc to strengthen it.

all comes down to quality of parts and ur tuner. u get for what u pay for.

Can vouch for AH-HUH 260kw run. Unopen motor with a quality kit with race fuel. Wonder how it would of went with E85? hehe

When people build turbo's kit for there honda they make the wrong move installling a small turbo. Honda's high compression love the big turbo. They work great together.

even my setup makes 239kw on 7.5psi......................unopened dc2r engine............
power and torque:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...peak-power.jpg

boost level:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...oost-level.jpg

engine bay:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...8/DSCN1041.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...8/DSCN1042.jpg

and i got pleanty of ozhonda guys here in melb that can vouch for my setup................

IEVAQ-8 im not doubting the the power im doubting the amount of psi running through the stock motor with stock compression. I believe that he could make 260kw on a stock motor.

what computer you running ievaq8, and turbo size and is it the boost controlled with ebc or mbc. your boost is pretty nice in that graph

WOW heaps of power there!

dammit now i want to boost my car..

i hate not being allowed to drive nicely modified cars legally.

....anyone got a dyno graph of a worked All motor k20 or k24? would like to see the torque curve compared to some of the turbo setups :)

i know yonas has a dyno graph. maybe try yboost as well. I don't know what you mean by worked. pretty sure both their motors have stock internals. i'm pretty sure anyway..

well, Induction Exhaust and ECU at a minimum, someone that has spens around the same money as the turbo setups on an all motor as a comparative, all this talk about turbos with all that power, would like to see some big NA setups for around the same price just to see what is the better option (reliablity/power etc)

from what i understand, turbo is the cheapest way to see the biggest gains. to put a k20/4 into a civic or teg then it's going to cost you close to $15g alone. then if you want to build the car for drags to see some low numbers its going to cost you a fair bit more than what some of these guys have spent on there 240kw turbo setups

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Originally Posted by rpm boy

....anyone got a dyno graph of a worked All motor k20 or k24? would like to see the torque curve compared to some of the turbo setups :)

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EGK24A
*The glitch on torque curve came from the loudness of the open header with megaphone*
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...g?t=1241662472

u lowered the vtec cut in yonas?
what ecu are u running?

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Originally Posted by rpm boy

u lowered the vtec cut in yonas?
what ecu are u running?

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cant remember when vtec engage on my set up
running hondata kpro
8300 rpm rev limit
stock k24a3 bottom end

^ stock oil pump?

I'm really impressed the k24 can take such high RPM

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

^ stock oil pump?

I'm really impressed the k24 can take such high RPM

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Stock k24A3 oil pump here.
50 degree vtc

any difference between k20 and 24 block? deck hight like the b series diff?

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Originally Posted by rpm boy

any difference between k20 and 24 block? deck hight like the b series diff?

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different bore and stroke

so thearetically with knotching out the block u could fit a k24 crank into a k20 block?

If you want linear responsiveness; go for a K20 or K24 conversion.

If you wanna pack your punch into a few thousand rpm; boost a B18c7

track = NA or SC
drag = turbo
for FWD neways IMO (dont hurt me)

yeh drag/street = b turbo. Altho you can get the same or better time in a NA k series Drag as you can in a boosted B so i dunno its all relative.

I think the main reason the boosted boys arnt getting good times is tyre width, if u see what rims/tyres there running i the states u would understand :)....

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Originally Posted by hisoka

what computer you running ievaq8, and turbo size and is it the boost controlled with ebc or mbc. your boost is pretty nice in that graph

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i got hondata s300, turbo is a gt3037s with 0.82 rear housing and 44mm external gate...no boost controller, just waste gate spring, thats y the boost is progressive.........and easier to control wheelspin...........

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Originally Posted by IEVAQ8

i got hondata s300, turbo is a gt3037s with 0.82 rear housing and 44mm external gate...no boost controller, just waste gate spring, thats y the boost is progressive.........and easier to control wheelspin...........

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awsome mate, just awsome.

k24 bottom with k20a the way to go.

k26 FTW! LOL

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Originally Posted by LiL FiLo

k26 FTW! LOL

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lol, im getting basically the same numberplates as u...DCK24A

D-series TURBO is the shizzle these days

so a turbo b-series isn't good for track?

i'm contemplating over whether i should turbo my b18c7 or go k20.

i want to do some track but also drag, which one do you guys think is best for me?

Spend the money on more important part of the car to make it suitable for track. For more power ill go for a well built B20vtec

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Originally Posted by rpm boy

I think the main reason the boosted boys arnt getting good times is tyre width, if u see what rims/tyres there running i the states u would understand :)....

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wat do they run over there?

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Originally Posted by VTi_b0i

wat do they run over there?

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type in "nyce1s" on youtube. its some good fast turbo hondas in the US!

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Originally Posted by vampzzz

so a turbo b-series isn't good for track?

i'm contemplating over whether i should turbo my b18c7 or go k20.

i want to do some track but also drag, which one do you guys think is best for me?

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Think of it this way ...

The turbo is going to give you a real big hit in terms of power but if your going to track race it this power increase also generates a lot more under bonnet heat over time.

Controlling under bonnet temperatures on a track car is the key to getting longevity and performance out of the motor.

Personally I'd consider the B series turbo if you where going to drag race it at night at the occasional test and tune, but I'd never consider this route for circuit work unless you have a substantial budget to forge the motor and add all the necessary cooling hardware.

K20 for sure. Have been in boosted civics and it doesnt compare. The noise and the pull a K20 has you cannot match. plus when you kill something and they expect it to be turbo and you pop the bonnet and its all motor, their facial expression makes it all worth wild.

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Originally Posted by vampzzz

so a turbo b-series isn't good for track?

i'm contemplating over whether i should turbo my b18c7 or go k20.

i want to do some track but also drag, which one do you guys think is best for me?

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b-series has a better balance for track as the engine is on the passanger side and this makes for better balance

with a k-series the engine is mounted more towards the drivers side so when you have the driver and the engine all one the one side the balance isn't as good for track work it's more suited for drags

but when you turbo the b-series this changes the things as a turbo makes the b-series less suitable for tight track racing

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Originally Posted by ek4-guy

b-series has a better balance for track as the engine is on the passanger side and this makes for better balance

with a k-series the engine is mounted more towards the drivers side so when you have the driver and the engine all one the one side the balance isn't as good for track work it's more suited for drags

but when you turbo the b-series this changes the things as a turbo makes the b-series less suitable for tight track racing

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Not the case man, K balance is fine, its not prone to understeering as many have said in the past. In my opinion it handles better then with my B. traction is more of a issue.

Most of the fastest track cars in Australia are B-series. Go figure. Just look at the proconcepts civic. One is a stroked b16a and the other k20a. Both similar setups, b-series car is always quicker.

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Originally Posted by LiL FiLo

k26 FTW! LOL

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hows that going btw lol

see this is what will send me nuts when it comes time to get off my p's and do my motor build... which is in 1 1/2 years but i'm already saving
b16b is base so options are

The temptation of turbo is huge... 1.8L gt35/40
stock k20 is pure porn/baller
high comp + built head b20 is also a very likely option

circuit car that will be street driven (ie cage would go in it)

this is all my future plans... some might say dreams XD

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Originally Posted by fatboyz39

Most of the fastest track cars in Australia are B-series. Go figure. Just look at the proconcepts civic. One is a stroked b16a and the other k20a. Both similar setups, b-series car is always quicker.

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But in saying that 90% of the cars that are tracked are b series. K is a new thing over here and most of them are un opened. I think over the new few years the shift will move to K as its a better base to start from, now days it takes a built B to beat a standard K. But all this aside current standings are B is better, you only need to look at your success and Hi Power Racings CRX. Hopefully 12PIN will shake things up abit.

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Originally Posted by thebob

But in saying that 90% of the cars that are tracked are b series. K is a new thing over here and most of them are un opened. I think over the new few years the shift will move to K as its a better base to start from, now days it takes a built B to beat a standard K. But all this aside current standings are B is better, you only need to look at your success and Hi Power Racings CRX. Hopefully 12PIN will shake things up abit.

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That is true. K-series are a great motor. Can produce some stupid numbers and have a great gearbox. We might fly the k series sooner or later, jsut a matter of time.

So in regards to the OP would you say to the kid move forward with everyone else or stay at a era that will soon be phased out?

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Originally Posted by thebob

So in regards to the OP would you say to the kid move forward with everyone else or stay at a era that will soon be phased out?

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It all depends on the budget your willing to set for the project.

I can relate to the dilemma as I knew the K series engine would have been more potent in my track EG but that would of added almost 2 - 3 grand more to the build; which was money needed to balance out the rest of the car in terms of suspension, roll cage, brakes etc.

So the OP really needs to sit down and do the sums, talk to their builder/parts supplier and figure out roughly how much they want to spend; or can afford to spend and cover all the parts you need to modify your car to get it doing what you want it to do weather it be circuit racing or drag racing.

This has been a public announcement bought to you today by Haw Chew Gai Pow Phan.

h2b setup... thats all u need :):) cheaper then k swap... faster then k swap.. better then k swap.... ( for now )

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

h2b setup... thats all u need :):) cheaper then k swap... faster then k swap.. better then k swap.... ( for now )

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have you got one ? cool thread btw.

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Originally Posted by hisoka

have you got one ? cool thread btw.

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ofcourse not fatboyz does i believe one of his mates... very rare in aus :) k series 11-15k setup..... h2b 8-10k setup :D

yeah pretty cost effective (bang for buck) if you wanna stay NA.

lol rare. in brisbane inala, they have more H series than B series i swear. first time i ever seen on was there, then noticed pretty much everyone there got it

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Originally Posted by thebob

So in regards to the OP would you say to the kid move forward with everyone else or stay at a era that will soon be phased out?

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Stay in the era. More support from B series then K sereis over here.

i think i will go k20/24 good power & in the 12's and the resale of cars with k's are better then b's or h series, i dont have the money to run a turbo setup. 15g i'm maxed out so i need something that doesnt need tuning as much and reliable i no turbo setups can be, but i dont think so on my budget thanks for all the help. if i get anything but k im gunna wish i do .

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

h2b setup... thats all u need :):) cheaper then k swap... faster then k swap.. better then k swap.... ( for now )

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Pfft, if a stock H beat my stock K i would hang myself.

^ mikey is talking about a H22a with a Bseries Gearbox

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109724

yeah i'm still thinking k series would win

no complaints with my K swap! nice and quick street car.

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Originally Posted by YBOOST

no complaints with my K swap! nice and quick street car.

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:)
Lets push it to run 12.3 sec with stock internals :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by EG5

:)
Lets push it to run 12.3 sec with stock internals :thumbsup:

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Possible, i've seen some crazy stock type S motors run 11's

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Originally Posted by Benson

Possible, i've seen some crazy stock type S motors run 11's

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Thats on EG hatch
Might be abit harder on dc2 chasis

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Originally Posted by Sexc86

^ mikey is talking about a H22a with a Bseries Gearbox

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Even still, if i didnt beat it by at least a car length i would sell up.

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Originally Posted by thebob

Even still, if i didnt beat it by at least a car length i would sell up.

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I'd say the stock K would flog a stock H. In my stock (exception of coilovers) EK4 I've 'raced' 2 Prelude Vti-R's, one had exhaust done and not sure what else, it only started to pull away end of 3rd/start of 4th gear and the second one which i'm not sure if it was stock of not was pretty neck and neck. I've also 'raced' a S14 and had him till end of 3rd too, haha his face was priceless :P

Damn I'd love a K-swap and make a mad dune buggy outta the B16 :P or do a mini cooper.

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Originally Posted by thebob

Even still, if i didnt beat it by at least a car length i would sell up.

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Come down to syd. H2B setup in EG hatch. I think you might need to sell up.

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Originally Posted by 98vtir

I'd say the stock K would flog a stock H. In my stock (exception of coilovers) EK4 I've 'raced' 2 Prelude Vti-R's, one had exhaust done and not sure what else, it only started to pull away end of 3rd/start of 4th gear and the second one which i'm not sure if it was stock of not was pretty neck and neck. I've also 'raced' a S14 and had him till end of 3rd too, haha his face was priceless :P

Damn I'd love a K-swap and make a mad dune buggy outta the B16 :P or do a mini cooper.

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What are you comparing? They have been talking K swap into lighter shell and h2B in a lighter shell. The debate is which one is faster and dollar value.

We've owned K24 Ek, driven h2B civic, driven k20 EG, built k24, stock k20 and etc. K20-k24 swap civic and h2B swaps are similar on power and performance.

IMO after experiencing the K24's, k20's and h2b, i would much prefer the h2b due to dollar value, engine set-up and the rawness on the power delivery.

K-series is too smooth!.........

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Originally Posted by fatboyz39

Come down to syd. H2B setup in EG hatch. I think you might need to sell up.

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If bobby's setup was in the same EG, i'm pretty sure it would be faster. :p

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Originally Posted by barefootbonzai

If bobby's setup was in the same EG, i'm pretty sure it would be faster. :p

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Not doubting at all. But freeway runs it'll be close to even. The K series has the off the line advantage due to its gearing.:thumbsup:

so h2b pretty close to k in terms of power and 1/4 what the price difference between the 2 i thought k was alot better

Its personal preference for a K swap or a H2B swap. Pricing will work out close to the same once all mods and bolt ons wanted are achieved. Pricing for a H2B wont be cheaper unless you are sourcing parts and are experienced at this. For the personal builder who has to pay to get through there build i believe you wont get much change going K or H2B. As for personal opinion im biased to K series as driving a K is like using Pentium 4 compared to driving a H is like using Pentium 1. Good luck with your choice making :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by barefootbonzai

If bobby's setup was in the same EG, i'm pretty sure it would be faster. :p

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Even still K in my coupe vs H2B eg, i still cannot see it getting beaten. Welcome to try but i dunno. I hope i havent got the ozhonda blinkers on where you think turbo d is the fastest.

FYI, that wasnt a attack at lyle, Although lyle has now taken as a attack agaisnt him. Sorry lyle for not mentioning you. Next time i talk anything remotely honda i will make sure to exclude you from the conversation.

Not at all mate, I just thought that statment regarding the "blinkers on" was ment for me. My misstake.

Anyway back on topic, Would like to hear some more opinions on the H2B vs K20

i would like to chuck a spanner in the works by saying TURBO D!!

lol, i thought it was funny......

K20 FTW or K24 FTMFW

And as you said, you might not be the fastest car around but when your pulling a all motor VTEC down that 1/4 mile you will be loving it, and when your daily driving it and some dude in some gay v8 think he can smoke you, you will be loving that as well.

All the best with it, can you let me know when you have a 'build thread' so find out how it's all going.

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Originally Posted by A.C.S DRAG

i would like to chuck a spanner in the works by saying TURBO D!!

lol, i thought it was funny......

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i'd like to chuck a turbo B18C in aswell :p

I agree with fatboyz39. H2b and K series will be pretty even on the highway. Especially a H2b in a eg and K series in a Teg.

Get your car up and running Bobby and we have a car for you to test on

Its not a H2B but gearbox has been modified:thumbsup:

oh yeah, im down with this! tell me when we going to willowbank and ill run you guys too

Dont worry John, we've got a whole group going.

Will let you know.:thumbsup: OzH$#O representin!!

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Originally Posted by A.C.S DRAG

oh yeah, im down with this! tell me when we going to willowbank and ill run you guys too

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Originally Posted by mr180sx

Dont worry John, we've got a whole group going.

Will let you know.:thumbsup: OzH$#O representin!!

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let me kno pretty sure my car will do good times. :D

what quarter times are these H2B's running in aus?

I'd be up for a willow run now that i have the 2L back in..be a good comparision :)