LOL !Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle_Style
on 12.5:1 compression. :rolleyes:
Printable View
LOL !Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle_Style
on 12.5:1 compression. :rolleyes:
Who cares if you blow your engine bro as long as you have the fullysik blow off noise thats all that matters :pQuote:
LOL !
on 12.5:1 compression
Note: We need a sarcasm button on here, I don't want people thinking this is actually my opinion :honda:
hehe that'll be one very big and expensive blow off ;)
i pick it up tomorrow :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
so.. how is it?!?!!? does it WHOOP!?!?!?
man.. i wish i had this type of dedication to build up car like this.. just way too much effort / $$$..
but i suppose, when it's a passion / obsession, nothing matters.. :P
OK i finally got my car back this arvo.
It was put on the dyno and the poor thing is starving of fuel with the B16 fuel rail and injectors so now the next step is to go get some ITR ones.
The check engine light is on constantly so we'll have to see whats up with that ?
Apart from that, it has some good pulling power but i didnt go above 5000rpm. Hence im not allowed to if the engine is running lean. I cant wait to take it 9300 - where it should be. It was tuned with the B16 injectors and still produced a lot more than the B16 ever did at each rpm (well i bloody hopeso) but it will be fully tuned when these ITR injectors arrive :)
have one set of ITR injectors, 180
b16a -b18c7 same size injectors 240cc saturated... try and find a 92-96 prelude vtec they have 345cc injectors peak n hold...good luck dude :thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLM-02R
Then you'd need a resistor pack
whats this resistor pack ???
u need a resistor pack to run prelude injectors cos they are diff from B series ones
suggest u get fuel reg, up the press, get bigger fuel pump, unless u already done it
Injectors come in two main types (in terms of electrical) - hi resistance and low resistance. I think B series injectors are hi resistance and prelude ones are low resistance (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Therefore you'll need a resistor pack to change the resistance to match the injectors.
Also, there's injectors out there that flow differently - some are peak and hold while otheres are intermittant; also spray patterns can be different.
There's alot to consider, and injectors from different cars from the same manufacturer may vary sometimes as well.
So just keep these issues in mind. But most of the time, it's ok.
OBDI injectors are Low impedence and OBDII injectors are high impedence
well u just watsed a tune if ur running lean :/ get something decent in there - rc 440cc injectors go for realitvily cheap ~200USD on ebay and will deal with all ur fuel needs. DOnt waste money on regulators and rails, ur stock should be able to flow alot more HP then u will make. They are drop in, no ressiter packs needed. WHat kind of managment do u have? i thought u had a 'mugan' race ecu or something? or are u running a remapper like uberdata?
This is just ignorant. Stop listening to these people who obviously have no experience at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by weezer
DOnt bother with standard honda, im sure the prelude injectors will cost just as much as any aftermarket brand, which will outspray them 2-to-1.
no i havent already done it Andrew ...
the mugen ECU is trying to pump more fuel into the engine but this is limited to the injectors. Atm the tuner has woulnd back the tuning to cater for what i have and he said there is a truckload of power im losing out on - if u know what i mean.
Can u run these prelude injectors without this resistor pack, fpr and pump ?
as soon as u increase the size of the injectors, u will double or increase the fuel injected along the whole rev range. Do u get what i mean? Your ecu will still think it has 240cc injectors and will pump the fuel in at the same rate. You need a way to trim ur MAP's back in line with the changes. Is ur mugen ecu able to be programed? I dont get what ur managment is! How DOES he tune ur car?
The honda fuel system is able to take plenty of HP. over 300hp+ people have goten without even upgrading the pump. You dont need ANYTHING accept injectors. A resister pack - if u decide to go down the road of peak and hold injectors - can be found on any DSM trading forum. They go for dirt cheap - 10-20usd max. but i wouldnt bother, unless u get the injectors for free. AS i said, RC are leaders in injection, and they ar cheap!
The Mugen Race use only ECU is an OBD2 but im not sure if it can be remapped - my guess is no. Im no tuner so i dont know exactly what he did but he clearly indicated that the engine is running quite lean with the current 240cc injectors. As per the Mugen ecu and how much fuel its asking for - we dont know :(
I think the ecu thinks i have much larger injectors to be honest. Hence why its asking for more fuel.
Im hoping i can get a set of these RC injectors and that solves all our problems. Anyone got a set :P lol
Well its important to know what injectors should be running with the ECU. THe ECU may infact just be used to a higher rail pressure to inject more fuel per pulse?.. It seems all ur 'tuner' has done is stick her on the dyno with a wideband in the ass and checked A/F. Possibly ajusted timing manually. DO u know the current duty cycle on the injectors?? Id assume if the ECU was expecting bigger injectors, it would be lower then normal. hmmmmmm
you cna't buy bigger injs and hope the mugen will solve your problems, it won't happen
Weq, would you like to speak to my tuner ?
Im no expert with injectors or know exactly what i need or what the ECU really wants?
Im just trying to get this thing tuned before a drag day on the 17th. ATM i cant do anything and im starving the poor thing ..
i thought you said obd1?Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
Andrew thats a pretty cold answer. If you can assist me on how to solve the problem that would be nice but i dont see any helpfulness to that post of yours .. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
Its OBD2. I have already proved and posted that mateQuote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
Nicely done mate..... all i can say that it looks better than a ctr...lolz.... :D
if u want to run bigger inj, u need a programmable ecu to allow u to do that, the mugen can't do that, simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
Well do you know what injectors this "race use only" ecu requires ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
"race only"injectors?Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
Hmms well what can i say...
1) Find out the specifics on the ECU. What size injectors its programmed to run, at what fuel pressure.
2) Dump the ECU, get something aftermarket or rechip!
3) Piggyback ECU like unichip or e-manage or an AFC (last resort) with some injectors of ~400cc. U will need ignition control though in any case for its full potential.
4) (very last) Adjustable pressure regulator and up the rail pressures until u get rich enough. Possibly need a new pump to keep up with demands.
lol. =]Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
Im trying to find out about this ecu and what it needs but my contact in Japan isnt getting back to me :( If anyone here knows ... ECU MAN ?? ... help :)
borrow a type R ecu and run that
yours ? :P
would S2000 injectors work ?
and a VAFC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
RAther than trying to find unknown sized injectors to match the program of your mugen ecu, why dont u sell off the mugen and invest in a fully programmable unit.
Obviously the cost of the fully programmable ecu will be an additional expense, but at least you will be able to tune it to the modifications that you have rather than trying to modify your car to suit the unknown variables of your current mugen ecu.
Im sure you would also get much better power results this way too :wave:
so i have 2 options now.
buy a VAFC2 and tune that with my setup and put back in the civic ECU and sell off the Mugen one.
or sell off the mugen ECU and replace it with a JDm ITR one.
hmm ?
option 2 is better
option 1 sounds like a plan to blow the engine up
this is one funny thread so here goes...
I am selling my VAFC + JDM Spec ITR ECU, may trade for the mugen unit for now....PM if interested.
Also i have the same query as Weq.
????Quote:
How DOES he tune ur car?
demonic_sol
pm sent ..
ok i love this insane world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My good friend has just informed me he has a set of Mugen B16 N1 race injectors lying around. Maybe this will solve the problem :) ???
Adam,
The ecu is tuned on the pulse width of the injectors that was on the mugen engine. By swapping the injectors out only, it changes the amount of fuel teh injectors will give, an example:
1) standard b18c type R injectors say rated to 240cc open for 2 seconds of "pulse width"
will give much less than say
2) a set of 550cc RC injectors open for 2 seconds.
If your unsure about anything give me a PM. Btw, I have type R injectors and fuel rail to suit b18cR, but they are no good to you.
give me a Pm if your unclear of anything or want to discuss anything. Dont worry about resistor boxes fuel pressure regulators etc, anyways, yeah here to help give me a PM.
sweet, cheers man for your help.
I was going around in circles with how to solve the tuning of this new engine. Do you feel confident that if i use these B16 Mugen N1 injectors - which have a 50% higher flow rate over the 240cc, this will solve my problem ?
i wouldnt feel confident unless i knew with 110% certainty that it was those size injectors thatt he mugen ecu was tuned for.
Please PM me for any other help
atm the exhaust is picking up a co reading of 2.55%. on the dyno
he suggests it needs to be around 5-6%.
Does this help ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pornstar
:rolleyes:
lol .
PM's take too much time.
can u send me ur email please :)
:thumbsup:
if u get ride of ur mugen ecu, u will loose ur new revlimit. remmber this.
but are u sure the valvetrain is built for that revlimit?
yes Andrew its been made to revv to the moon.
:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonic_sol
adam i will take this offer
this is my new engine bay. Everythins all hooked up and ready to roll
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/...0b18-2-med.jpg
its a thought but i dont exactly like the thought of this expensive engine being managed by a $250 piggy back ECU :oQuote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
take the offer for the ecu
not the vafc
ok i just spoke to the previous owner.
He wa running a stock ITR fuel rail but used a Fuel Pressure Regulator to pump in more fuel. It worked for him on the track ..
hmm
Are you sure about this?....when i spoke to the previous owner (no names mentioned) he couldnt guarantee that it had reinforced valve springs...seemed a bit weird so i went and sourced a front cut instead...i'd do yer homework just in case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
demonic_sol
how do u know the previous owner ?
Nice Car, you should get the new injectors something around the vicinity of 440cc and get a full computer like Power FC. It gives you a lot more tuning room later on and saves a lot of hassle and probably cost you less in the long run. I am running a tuned B16A with spoon cams, toda valve springs, spoon head gasket and I maxed out the stock injectors at 9000rpm (The cams allow a powerband between 5500-10000 but since it's a daily driver, I prefer not to).
bcause i was going to buy that engine...back in April / May..off the back of a truck...literally ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
demonic_sol
damn ..
i might take u up on that offer with the ECU.
can u give me a buzz on this number : 0409 080 372
ta
just checked the codes..
was injectors and o2 sensor basically - Adam can u post what the codes were and see if anyone knows what the code 18 is for..
is definately running waaaay lean.. vtec was totally dulled out, the motor not putting out any torque - just like a starving engine.
after reading the posts on here (very entertaining) I think get the JDM ITR ECU, sell the VAFC and 'mugen' ECU, use the 'mugen' injectors and save up for Super FC.. as for a sky-high rev-limit, it's 'only' running ITR cams so revving past 8600 or thereabouts is pretty useless anyway. ther is no point havving an engine that can rev to 10,000RPM on paper if it isnt making any power up there.As for the valvetrain, Apparently the motor had TODA/JUN cams at some stage however if they were 'only' Toda A or B's or JUN stage I or II's, the motor may 'only' have relied on stock ITR components.
as for dragging on the 17th, I think you may not want to risk it at this stage. a rebuild would be another $3-4K.. is it really worth the risk ??
Motorplex wont go anywhere for a long time, so just try to be patient and get it tuned right before you go trying to snap the tacho needle :P
and whoever was asking about his 'tuner', you are right, he must have only been able to run it on a dyno with a wideband o2 sensor.. and yeah about all he could have done is retard the ignition timing manually.
ive never heard of a code 18...as for the 17th why dun u save yer gas for the 24th....FTO PFUN.
demonic_sol
OK, we looked at the error codes last nite.
The funny thing was there were two orange lights flashing: The check engine light and the orange SRS light.
The orange SRS light sent out these numbers: 16, 18, 61.
ok this is what happened. 1 long flash then 6 quick flashes then pause, 1 long flash then 8 quick flashes then pause, and 6 long flashes then 1 quick one. So im sure we diagnosed them correct.
But what is code 18 ? if thats it ?
The check engine light is still on and vtec is almost non existant. You can hear it actuatin g at 4800rpm but nothing is really happening. It has no pulling power.
I have got Mugen groupA injectors with me now and im about to get them cleaned.
I know what u need to do Adam... take that motor out and give it to me hahaha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
nah - at least your' getting there with the diagnosing - hope it all goes well soon and running sweet! Could it be maybe faulty sensors? or the wrong voltage/resistance on the sensors eg: O2 sensor? you had to get new ones didn't you? ive heard that if they are the wrong resistance they will throw codes because they go crazy with the ECU and the fuel etc...
Just an idea!
Mikey, ur learning B series engines :)
Ive had that problem on my GENONEs EW5- which is an ancient engine compared to the b16a.Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
but have u done that?
are u sure u are not misreading the code 18 (non-existent) for a code 9..ie:defective cylinder / sensor???.
Your loss in power even with vtec activated is suggestive of a cylinder issue...ie: u could only be running on 3 cylinders...
demonic_sol
it was 18. Both Bede and myself checked it together about 5 times.
Civic type R
Without running the risk of bringing this ECU talk back from the dead, here are a few pointers you may wish to take on board on regards to the mugen race only ecu.
Being a OBD2 ECU these are not widely chippable, ( it can be done, but its a real pain, If you can surface mount solder, you're half way there)
The factory honda code in these ECU's does not make allowances for larger injectors, nor does it make allowances for higher/lower fuel pressure. This is a common misconception.
The widely available and most common Honda ECU solution (not mentioning names) and my own development are able to do this by altering the final fuel multiplier by a scalar. Please note this is NOT possible with your STOCK code ECU.
If you simply replace your current injectors with larger RC's, you will run rich and likely not even idle properly. Larger injectors also have different timing requirements.
The reason the B18C-R motors still use 240cc injectors is because of the fuel pressure regulators, 50psi as compared to normal 43psi. Once again the code is still the same (no final fuel multiplier) however the fuel tables are "tuned" . Honda tend also to run their injectors at close to 100% duty cycle, there are many theories as to why this is done, however to be honest, I have no idea why! Very strange, but one thing is for certain, if you dont have the R fuel pressure regulator and are using stock injecorts.....WATCH OUT! especially at those high RPM's.
If you want/need more detail on any of this, feel free to PM me or hit me up on MSN evo@esc.net.au
Good Luck with your tuning.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Cheers dude, i will speak to you soon.
Im sure this is a OBD1 ECU re thread in the technical section regarding a conversion harness.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
Yeah I read that thread also, doesn't he mention the plugs are OBD2?
Its an OBD2 ECU
i cleared that up.
if he's using his existing loom w/o an adapter then it has to be an obd2 ecu...assuming his loom is after 96.
demonic_sol
yes it is dude :)
Im having it all checked out next friday.
We will be looking at it as is first to see what the problem is. Then we will look at the Mugen injectors and a new pump if its needed. I have a feeling the VTEC soleniod isnt working properly .. ?
All will be resolved then.
Cheers heaps for all your help and assistance on this - its certainly appreciated so a big thanks !
damn ... another week ..
Have you considered HONDATA at any stage. I have my b18c running on 12.0:1 c/r and have had no problems at all. Maybe you should drop James an email to get a feel for what your options are. Good luck!!
I know from first hand having a high c/r motor is not as "hot" as its cracked up to be especially for daily driving :s
You can always opt for a cheaper ProECU system also
on the OBD issue of the 'race only' Mugen ECU, the mugen decal (genuine) looks a little old and tattered, but if it was OBD2, it is what 96 or newer which is 'only' a max of 8 years old. 90% of all ECU's i've seen are looking pretty straight, however is it possible to convert the sockets on an older OBD1 ECU to fit OBD2 plugs ?
VTEC solenoid is fine, otherwise you'd have NO VTEC at all and you would be also throwing VTEC related codes.
[QUOTE]No...i dont think so b/c i tried to explore this option with my OBD2 Ecu to fit my OBD1 plugs...its a head-F%$^ and there is a different number of pins and they do not all correlate......so i had to do it the long way of tracing the wires and then splicing them into my existing harness....well not me...X-Speed did it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by VTEChnique
If u dun want to follow this route u can get some ppl in the US that make custom OBD2 --> OBD1 converters..around $200 bucks aussie...i know Weapon-R make a conversion harness like this.
demonic_sol
did someone say Mugen ?
i'm surprised no-one has said to give unky Robbie a call ! :rolleyes: :)
wonder what he would say anyway.... hehe
hope you get it all sorted out. still awaiting on the outcomes of this engine.
Ray
Bede, You have to get a convertor harness if converting from OBD2 to OBD1.
But my ECU is OBD2 and always has been :)
YEs ive considered every ecu and piggyback ecus to fix the problem. I am taking to a workshop this friday to be tuned and looked at.