It's BYP well DynoDave's engine really.
He does two different types of builds, I'm not going to disclose the specs of each as I'm not entirely sure, but BYP/he can say what they have.
Ben, I will come back with a rough quote/list on Monday.
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It's BYP well DynoDave's engine really.
He does two different types of builds, I'm not going to disclose the specs of each as I'm not entirely sure, but BYP/he can say what they have.
Ben, I will come back with a rough quote/list on Monday.
The DD/BYP V1-V2 B20 engines are the STD piston builds there are a few other versions that are done but not relevent to this thread at the moment.
Dude the engine BYP built is like exactly the same as mine. They got the same KW reading to the last point aswell. 121.5kw. Where did i compare my engine to BYP 160kw B20? :thumbdwn:.. When i get my licence back, gets things running perfectly ill be taking my car down the 1/4 ill update it with times for youQuote:
Originally Posted by 90LAN
lololol
When I get my licence bacK!
I'm gonna lose it again!!
LOL
ive got two weeks left :) .. gonna take it the 1/4... hopefully get into something turbo afterwards
I was a whisker away from losing mine.
I now know I don't EVER want to lose it.
Must....drive.....the......speed.......limit.
Ok, real rough here and don't quote figures as it depends on the individual scenario, currency rate, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
This is what I would recommend, given the AGE of B series motors now, people need to realise that while the engine is out, it is worth the extra dollars to have it rebuilt. This will avoid possible problems down the track which may cost you more. I don't see the point in purchasing a motor more than 10 years old now and expecting it to have the performance it should. I'm sure some can agree.
Scenario #1 - Currently equiped with a B16/18 VTEC with standard head internals
- B20 block
- Labour to assemble
- VTEC conversion
- RS Pistons w/ rings
- ACL race bearings
- ARP rod bolts
- Gasket kit
- Headers
- Intake work
- ECU
- Tune
- Machining work inc. servicing of head (seals, seats etc)
- Fluids
- etc
The above can probably be done PROPERLY for a budget of around 4-5k.
Keep in mind, even though thats standard cams, this will net you power around 125kw+ with potential to hit 150+ with the right headwork. Perfect ring seal and performance of a new motor.
I think the above build is the best for most people on here to get them going as they can't afford to get everything in one go, it's not needed to get the cams, springs, etc all in the one go anyway.
The price might scare a fair few people on here away but keep in mind, each builder will quote a different price, but be sure you speak with that person in depth as each builder will do something the other won't. I know for fact I don't disclose what I do to my builds online. I just can't get my head around why people are willing to pay 5-6k for a second hand Type R motor when this will provide much better gains.
Scenario #2 - No VTEC engine
Well same engine setup as above, just the consumer needs to source a B16 halfcut or whatever is cheaper, pointless trying to get a budget for this as these prices fluctuate everyday and it depends where you get it from.
I personally would invest slightly more money and get a fun setup going that would be similiar to a K20. (edit: K20 and their F'n gearboxes of god :unlove:)
- B20 block
- Labour to assemble
- VTEC conversion
- RS Pistons w/ rings
- ACL race bearings
- ARP rod bolts
- Gasket kit
- Headers
- Intake work
- ECU
- Tune
- Machining work inc. servicing of head (seals, seats etc)
- Fluids
- etc
The above can probably be done PROPERLY for a budget of around 3-4k.
can you break this down to individual prices
i've been planning some work on my b18c7 and compared to items i've purchsed and quotes i've had on work this seems very cheap
my bottom and upper VRS kits cost 500+ alone
that list hits ~4000 before any labour/block work/head work is factored in...
I can't break it down individually as it depends on the time of item arrival. I am not a retail shop that can just list a product at x amount, until I have a certain amount of stock to classify my products into fixed prices, it's impossible.
If you want a quote, PM me and we'll take it from there.
Guys & admins, this thread is turning into abit of a quote/marketing saga, I must state my intentions with this thread being technical and theories for some future builds, if you guys want prices or are interested in builds, drop some of the guys in this thread a PM.
My bad, it was meant to be 4-5k!
what style header is best for a std compression (10:1) B20VTEC with ITR cams?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
and for the headstuds? you re-use the VTEC ones?Quote:
My bad, it was meant to be 4-5k!
- I would opt for a 4-2-1 larger tube item, this leaves headroom for more work down the track, I am working on a new design to suit B20VTEC engines. Mathematically calculated using various formulae in accordance to fluid/thermal dynamic principles. Utilising a reverse megaphone also.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
- If I must, I re-use headstuds, havn't had an issue yet, if the budget allows, I would use ARP items. For the record I would personally use ARP items.
I would use the small tube 4-2-1 TRI- Y over the big tubes for a standardish motor build
Some one asked previously.. dont think it was clearly answered.. whats a V1 build and a V2 build?
it is proprietary jargon... it is not common parlance to refer to B20's as V1 or V2...
whats the difference between a 125kw B20 and a 150+kw B20.
Besides money spent, what is the difference in parts combination?
Depends on who puts it together, head combo, clearances, bolt-ons etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Fly-Rice
What an interesting read this thread is…Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly-Rice
Some good info & some tall stories. (with no doubt more to come)
The 120kw B20 Vtec is a real thing… No question…
A 130~135kw unit isn’t rocket science either.
But the ones pushing 150+kw & the few that get past 160kw… LOL…
Yeah… If you did your research online, it would seem almost anyone can build a 150+kw B-series these days...
Any & every parts re-seller is able to recommend the correct combination of parts…
The fact that they have never done it or know nothing about building & tuning an engine will escape most customers. (Not good to think like that)
Now days, any machinist will do too… Nothing special required here either…
Head porting is also apparently now a breeze too…
Seems just anyone & everyone can do this at the required level now too.
**cough** Bullshit!
Now, where are all these easy build 150+kw N/A B-Series engines?
The answer is no-where…
Reality is that there are not many people in this country who can actually lay claim to be able to build one of these things…
Not just build a one shot wonder, but build one that lasts & will do a season or even 2…
More to the point, there are few who have actually done it…
Saying you can & actually doing it are two entirely different things…
Including myself, I can think of 3 people off hand…
One talks about himself in the 3rd person.
Hard to pick if you didn’t know, but I know…
The other wouldn’t ever bother coming on here. (& I’m starting to understand why… LOL)
Anyone else on here, to be frank just doesn’t have the runs on the board to lay claim to such an output (N/A) from that engine type.
The funny thing is, nothing has really changed in the last 10 years to make the task any easier.
The requirements remain the same…
Parts used need to be good if not excellent & the combination is critical.
The machining needs to be the best money can buy.
You really should spare no expense here as any cost cutting here will hurt you badly. This is a fact.
The assembly must also be spot on, with everything sorted on the engine stand.
The tuning must also be spot on…
That’s easy too cause apparently everyone’s a tuner now too…
Combination is everything… & it’s not just the parts…
It’s parts, machining, assembly & tuning… the whole package.
Any deficits show up as low output.
A funny thing happens when everything leading up to the tuning is spot on…
No matter what… You pull the string the damn thing just spanks out power…
The more you lean on it, the better it gets & it loves it.
That same can’t be said for any of these low budget pipe dreams out there.
In cases that are half-arsed, you spend all day sorting out stupid problems before the thing is even ready for a tune… Nothing goes right & to battle for every horsepower.
Get it right & the thing is awesome…
(There are quite a few combo's that work - but there are more that don't)
Get it wrong & the net result… WOFTAM
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116255
great info above there - dare i say from the only legit professional builder.
To TODA AU and all others - due to increased obvious torque - is the need for a higher final drive or shorter gear ratios etc NEEDED ? Im sure a standard gsi or vtir or ek4 (for example) gearbox suit it fine right ?
Thanks for stating the obvious Adrian
I would go up on final drive, to hit the numbers you want, i'd hunt a 4.9FD. Regardless of torque you make, the higher the figures you produce and the higher FD you go, just add more wheelspin.
edit: I always find it funny how Adrian says his essay like posts, they are nice and short in blocks LOL, not having a dig at you but it cracks me up :).
talk about plugs and advertising lol...
to be honest if i install hi-comp pistons,forged rods, hi-lift cams, port cnc my head, vavle train etc, and if i dont get close to 150kw ill chuck my motor in the bin.. when people say its so hard to get this kw , its only because the parts arent used. Its probly a stock build with cams you need everything to make it hit 150kw. That includes the required bolt ons, ie ITB's , injectors, large enough throttle and extractors
take it easy dude, dont get ahead of yourself on that statementQuote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
lol okay ozhonda, B18C is too fast, dont waste your money and time with b20's.....
man, no1 is saying b20vtec is slow
but don't get to excited mate, the way you TALK up b20vtec is lyk a GTR engine
nahhhh bro im excited B18C will eat the GTR engine,
here here :PQuote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
Depends on what you're doing with the car...Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
For a roadie / daily driver, yes the VtiR or EK4 box is just fine...
For the odd track day & a bit of fun.
Just use a B18CR gearbox & be done with it.
But if you're racing & want to win,
As with any track car. you'll need to look a gear ratio's & final drive.
Also going shorter in the final drive isn't always the answer.
On circuit cars, we often go the other way... 4.0, 4.2 or 4.4 final drive combined with close ratio gear kit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
You don’t actually need quads to get there…
Done right, they can be a big help. But done wrong they can be the opposite.
It’s all about combination. & it’s a holistic combination, not just parts.
& in the respect, real experience here is pay-dirt
General law of physics dictates that an increase in displacement will net more torque and power, so yes a B20vtec is "quicker" than a B18, i'll leave it at that.
I'd like to see some input regarding intake system, particularly the way the air is fed to the intake, ie - feed, filter/airbox, intake arm.
What is your experiance with different designs?
so if they left the crank bolt out? its the tuner that makes up for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
if they left the crank bolt out, it might not even make it to the tuner? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by na-118
finger tight will make it
wow, i am learning lots from this thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by na-118
I'd appreciate if you two keep that to PM.
Mods, please delete.
sorry to have sullied your thread with such juvenile behaviour :(
getting upset are you?
oh god, another OH thread about to be ruined!
in the interest of the topic...
what's the max rpm a stock b20 is good for and what would be needed to take it to around 8,500?
is b20b8 or b20z better in terms of both performance and compatibility?
also, on a built and camed (sk2 pro1) b16a2, would be worthwhile replacing the b16 bottom and ctr pistons with a stock b20 bottom (maybe with high comp pistons)? or is that just asking for dramas by using a built head on a stock bottom? and i assume i can't reuse b16ctr pistons in a b20??
why do people keep mentioning $300 B20 blocks and $1-2k b16 half cuts?
if you know why i can get either of these at those prices PPLLEEAASSEE let me know!
We have taken stock B20 rods to 8800rpm's. We capped the rev limit to 8600rpms though. I would run a set of H or I beams forged Rod for piece of mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiye
Just use a b20b8...
And yes, it would be worthwhile to change your b16a bottom end to 2.0l. A stock B20 bottom end spec will run fine with your headwork. Check out phamburgers b20vtec. Thats running a V1 spec bottom end with headwork. Its making over 130kw with less than 10:1 compression
CTR psiton wont fit the b20, different bore size (81 compared to 84mm)
correct me if i am wrong, but B20B8 specs = B20Z specs
i remember reading something somewhere about the fuel or water pump being different??? just checking if any other differencesQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
nah.
fuel pump is in the fuel tank (i.e. nothing to do with engine) and water pump is the same 19 tooth item.
maybe you are thinking of B20B3 vs B20B8?
first hit on Google: http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=460954
Hi got a mate who has a b16 or 18cr head and a b20 bot also thats done up. i/h/e/cams/pistons/ecu/etcc....
he has an apexi power fc and he wants to know if or any suggestions if he should change ecu then tune it or tune it with the power fc. if tunning it he wants to know if anyone who has tuned power fc's before can do it for him and whats so good about power fc's ecu. is it good with b20?
lol i'm always tellin ppl to google stuff... now i'm beeing a douche!Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
ta
Yes that is correct B20Z is a US engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Kraiye - If you were in Sydney, i would gladly help you find a cheap b20b8. I don't know how much its in Brisbane, but its best to go to a wrecker not some dreamer that offers them for 1grand. A B16a isn't worth more than about 2 grand with the box.
i used one on my last B20, it was fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ear_
but your tuner must have the right program on their laptop... i *think* it is called fc-datalogit or something?
just using the hand controller is not an easy or effective way...
i wish the ones selling these motors on the forums think the same as youQuote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
thanks mate appreciate it :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
problem is, most of the wreckers up here ARE dreamers :(
i was waiting on a price to get a short block shipped from japan (kind of 'on the side') but the guy never got back to me.
prices which YOU think an item is worth...is NOT what it IS actually worth. Wreckers sell for whatever they CAN sell to someone lol.
other way round mate... prices which THEY think an item is worth...is NOT what it IS actually worth.
thats what i've been finding with the jap wreckers up here anyway.
i guess my point is the worth is what it sells for , or what it can sell for. Just because youor me think its worth say $2k - isnt stopping the wrecker advertising it for $3.5k and selling it for that eventually to a noob.
oh but this forum works both ways depending on if the person is buying or selling
someone find me a $300 b20 suitable for a spare b16a2 that i have
dam noobs... raising the prices for the rest of us!!
sure, but my 'finders fee' = $350Quote:
Originally Posted by ek4-guy
^ LOL nice one.
Thanks for that tinkerbell.
got any suggestions of where to go in syndey for tunning?
Toda Racing has the proper software on their laptop :)
yep nice one but pretty much confirms my thoughtsQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
yeah, you *might* get one for 500, but it would probably not be the best...Quote:
Originally Posted by ek4-guy
around 600 is a common price...
PM slaz he had a few forsale for $500 I think.
He's got one of his left but I'm not sure if he's keeping it or not,Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
As above, give hime a PM :thumbsup:
i got one from a toyota wrecker for 350 complete with head+block, its always good to just ask random wreckers never know what you can find. Originally i was actually looking for a just a normal B18B2 GSi engine and i found the B20 being cheaper than it, so i opted for the B20B8
I think $500 is a bit steep, if you look around you can get one for $400 or less
where exactly in melbourne can you get a B20B for $400 or less, or did you mean in other parts australia as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
All you need to do is find somebody who can get you a trade price, or go looking around at different wreckers to see what you can get - you'd be surprised.
My mate gets B20 blocks (without being cleaned/rebuilt/checked etc.) for around $300-400.
wreckers here sell long block for 800-1200.
hondwreck, japwreck, imlachs etc.
can you tell us where in melbourne 300-400 dougie? can you get your mate to get us at that price?
no use saying your mate get it at this price or that price, if other people cant get it at that price.
regardless of the price of the block, it is only a small portion of the money you need to spend...
so regardless of whether you are 'in teh trade' or have to pay *retail* - you still got much bigger things to worry about than the price you pay for the block...
true but u can't do much a b20 build without it. lol
and the money u save on the block will of course go into other parts.
wreckers i've asked in bris are similar to melb prices. at these prices a b20 vtec is out of the question but for $300-400 i can not only afford it but do it better.
So who is currently building or looking at building a B20Vtec and what combo are you using.
^ I brought up idiscussion for intake airbox ideas but its gone out the window.
To technical dude :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
From what I've heard 3inch velocity stacks works well. I think the intakes like injen or cai would lose power right since it's for top end power but b20 is meant for torque so it's mid range but that's my 2cents
Care to explain your theory behind such statement Mikey?
I'm seriously interested to hear this one, you say it like you experianced it
Sorry what I meant to say is that I believe a Sri would work better for a b20 and builders from h-t told me it's better so I'm just taking their word
:honda:Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyG
did they tell you you would have to tune the length/diameter on a dyno too?Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyG
i will be doing this on my next B20...
If your using your motor you going to be in the up in the rev range anyway and thats were CAI's shines, above 5k+.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyG
Benson or jimmy told you this , which they were told by dyno dave eh ? Lol.
Still , it's all food for thought.