Petrol

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Originally Posted by br3nny

super efficient !! thats freaky......hahaha

car still running rich but after installing the raizin digital readout shows a drop in fuel consumption for the kms i've been running with it on...still goign with a bit of spirited driving

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Does your car consume more fuel when it runs rich??

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Does your car consume more fuel when it runs rich??

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yes..

I just don't quite understand this concept, often when we modify our intake for example, the air fuel ratio will be rich but we read a lower fuel consumption...any reasons?

What's more easier - sucking in air through a lollipop stick, or sucking throgh a straw?

The engine's not working as hard to make the power for u to accelerate at a given rate, so it'll use less fuel. if that makes any sense LOL

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Originally Posted by FDBenni

yes..

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Originally Posted by jyh888

Does your car consume more fuel when it runs rich??

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Originally Posted by jyh888

I just don't quite understand this concept, often when we modify our intake for example, the air fuel ratio will be rich but we read a lower fuel consumption...any reasons?

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Originally Posted by curtis265

What's more easier - sucking in air through a lollipop stick, or sucking throgh a straw?

The engine's not working as hard to make the power for u to accelerate at a given rate, so it'll use less fuel. if that makes any sense LOL

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I think this needs a bit more explanation.

When a car runs "Rich" it means that the air fuel mixture is a bit heavier on the fuel side, "usually" because there is a technical fault with the engine eg:- blocked jet/injector, air filter is clogged, air sensor is reading wrong etc......

When you modify the air intake to allow faster airflow, forced air induction etc.. this doesn't make the car run rich as such, but it does pump more fuel in but the actual mixture will be as it is intended. As mentioned above, the easier it is for the car to breathe (get fuel and air into the cylinder) the easier it is to rev eg:- more power less effort. If you are serious about this, then modifying the intake without looking at how the gasses are going to escape eg:- exhaust, then probably not worth the effort unless you plan to do the exhaust when you have the cash.

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Originally Posted by Nairda

Not necessarily...quality of the fuel depends on the content of hydrocarbons inside the solution and impurities...

Let me educate you a little since im studying organic chemistry =P

Octane content is important because it gives off a good amount of energy when you burn it and it forms CO2 and H2O being more stable than a long hydrocarbon chain. According to wikipedia it gives off standard enthalpy of −5430 kJ/mol in combustion. (Enthalpy = the change in energy when a reaction occurs. "-" means exothermic reaction and energy is given off, positive integers means endothermic and energy is absorbed)

Fuels that dont have as much of these nice long chains (Octane +) and have more Ethanol (E10) and thus do not give as high energy when burnt. Wikipedia suggests that Ethanol's standard enthalpy for combustion –1370.7 kJ/mol.

So from these figures you can see that 1 mol of octane gives off more energy when combusted (which is expected because octane has more carbons and more hydrogens, as well as one mol of octane is heavier than ethanol). However as it turns out i just worked out the Molar Mass of ethanol which is 46 and octane is 114.. so actually in octane you are getting 2x the amount of energy per mol combusted even when you get near equal mass amounts

Also quality of fuel takes into account less impurities such as sulfates that are usually found inside crude oil so when you talk about "Good quality fuel" such as VPower and Ultimate, they have less impurities because they have been processed that much more (more filtration, purer fractional distillation)

Therefore the "purer" the fuel, the more energy you actually obtain from the combustion because theres more hydrocarbons per drop....less impurities such as sulfates that dont give off a lot of energy when combusted. Pure ethanol also vaporises quite quickly so you may actually "lose" a little in the combustion process. (which is the fuel smell when you open your filler cap...some fuel has vaporised)

Thus in comparison your engine works like this:
I need X amount of energy to accelerate from 0 - 80km/h and with fuel with no ethanol it takes "O" amount
the same X energy for acceleration from 0 - 80km/h requires "E" amount from E10 which is a x% more than the amount "O"

So every time your car needs to get up the same hill, will need to use that much x% more E10 than O

I hope this deserves a PQ point =)

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I see what your saying in regards to the comment, about the BP ultimate eating more fuel- i agree that its not entirely true, yes it may cost more than the lower grade fuels, but thats just because like you said, the purity of the 98 octane, my understanding of organic chem is that yes a more pure form of a substance/ molecule means less impurities, so that the engine should be burning the fuel more efficiently and also providing more power in each reaction/ products produced, instead of different compounds (higher concentrations of them/more) making up the ultimate mix, meaning that because it's not as pure the reaction rate for each product in the fuelis different, which i assume leads more residue forming/ left (as seen as black smoke/ carbon by most)and not efficient energy production as the engine is trying to get through more compounds than it is built to by the manufacturers (so lower grade fuels may just mean burns off faster if its a low molecular wt), so yeah higher grade petrol=higher concentrations = costs more (what did you expect for more of something), the price you have to pay for better performing cars.

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Originally Posted by onevia13

I see what your saying in regards to the comment, about the BP ultimate eating more fuel- i agree that its not entirely true, yes it may cost more than the lower grade fuels, but thats just because like you said, the purity of the 98 octane, my understanding of organic chem is that yes a more pure form of a substance/ molecule means less impurities, so that the engine should be burning the fuel more efficiently and also providing more power in each reaction/ products produced, instead of different compounds (higher concentrations of them/more) making up the ultimate mix, meaning that because it's not as pure the reaction rate for each product in the fuelis different, which i assume leads more residue forming/ left (as seen as black smoke/ carbon by most)and not efficient energy production as the engine is trying to get through more compounds than it is built to by the manufacturers (so lower grade fuels may just mean burns off faster if its a low molecular wt), so yeah higher grade petrol=higher concentrations = costs more (what did you expect for more of something), the price you have to pay for better performing cars.

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Good point there. I also believe that the better grade petrol you use for your car, the longer the engine will go and will generate less problems in the long run rather than using cheap petrol. Sort of like giving a human cheap food vs good quality food, the good quality is gonna satisfy and going to be better in the running. I just think of the car as a human :P

after installing the raizin and driving around for a bit.......

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Originally Posted by br3nny

after installing the raizin and driving around for a bit.......

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Wow dude, 7.9/100km is efficient as a nut!!!

im only using 95 or 98. 98 all the time if i can. i find the car revs and drives smother. better for the engine too so f it.

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Originally Posted by br3nny

after installing the raizin and driving around for a bit.......

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What kind of driving do you do? This is better than my 'fuel efficient' engine

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Originally Posted by curtis265

What kind of driving do you do? This is better than my 'fuel efficient' engine

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hahahah, thats for me as well ><

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Originally Posted by curtis265

What kind of driving do you do? This is better than my 'fuel efficient' engine

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Originally Posted by ekay1

hahahah, thats for me as well ><

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this was after a week after having the raizin installed

i reset the meter at the beginning of the weekend, normal drive around with vtec on the on ramp of the freeway :eek::D;););):eek: i guess i was being mindful at the time watching the fuel gauge as i was driving around but...its crept up to 8.1 now tho after 300kms =(

still running rich atm so i don't know if i'm really using that amount of fuel haha....love the burble but in a couple of months till flashpro so hopefully that brings or keeps it more stable after!!!!

just calculated my fuel effciecy: 8.4l/100km for only city drive. (42L/495km refuel right after the last bar off)
Pivot Spark Earth installed.

wats that?

http://www.pivotracing.com/product/SES