Lol yeah I'm a couple of decades behind.
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Lol yeah I'm a couple of decades behind.
Well it's finally finished! I think lol. I wired the VTEC solenoid up and tentatively took it for a run and it certainly works! It's been a while lol. Anyway thanks to everyone who offered assistance, it certainly kept the project rolling. With kids at school and full time work etc it's certainly steady as she goes, nothing happens quickly as spare time is a luxury.
Anyway cheers I'll try and get some pics up after I wash 7 months worth of dust off the bodywork.
Ok I've managed to put around 200ks on it now and it's all running sweet, no funny noises, no smoking, air cond, steer etc all great except it throw the engine light up every time it hits 2500rpm. Stopping the engine turns it off and restarting it the light is out. Hit 2500 rpm and it comes back on.
Any ideas? Any preferred mechanics on Brisbanes Northside?
Pull the code from the ECU and you'll know which sensor is throwing the code. The old paperclip trick usually works if you don't have a scanner or an aftermarket ECU. If you have an S300 just plug your laptop in.Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
I know this feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
Op should resort to using turbo
Helps cbauto
Just a oil consumption issue I've noticed. I'm using a lot of oil, probably added around 500ml to 800kms so far. Seeing it's the first run since the engine has sat for 10 months I thought I'd just use GTX2 then dump it at 1000kms and refill with something better.
The exhaust is leaving residue on the rear bumper. Black soot. Doesn't feel oily, more powder like. Plugs burn a nice grey on the electrode. Fuel economy is 8L/100 around the city. Starts with no smoke and doesn't blow any on just revving on the drive on a warm motor. Not sure when it's up and revving hard at speed.
Engine is very smooth and delivers nice power.
The catch is I have an engine light coming on at 3000rpm and I haven't connected up a electrical plug at the rear of the engine which I have been told is some type of emission control as my GSI didn't have anything for it. Could this be the source of my oil usage.
Compression test upon purchase of engine recorded 255psi across all cylinders.
To anyone that might ask if I've had the engine tuned, I've called two brisbane shops, I've had two recommendations on tuning these, one totalled $2950 and the other was $1600. So at this stage I just want to sort out this engine light and oil consumption.
Did you witness the compression test?Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
The black residue is from running rich, it is excess fuel not oil. Get rid of the CEL first then start troubleshooting if it is still an issue.
Also get someone to follow you when your car is warmed up at WOT. When I was burning a lot of oil I could only see smoke from the exhaust at high rpm gear shifts.
Cheers RC, no I didn't witness the comp test. I am organising another one this week just curious.
I have managed to track down a purge solenoid so I'll wait and see if it stops the CEL.
Out of curiosity was you fix for oil consumption a rebuild?
Cheers Al
Yeah, mine was a rebuild at about 280k.
The rings were pretty worn and at least one chamber had leaky valve stem seals. It still drove pretty well prior to the build.
Now the oil consumption is virtually nil.
Interesting. Mine supposedly had a build 15K prior to purchase. Pulling covers off etc gaskets etc can be seen to have been replaced and sealant etc looks newish. I would believe regardless of the build status that it copped a hard life prior to me buying it. I will do more investigating. Apart from top end power the midrange appears much nicer over the B18B.
If it was due for work I'll have to find a Brissy repaired I'd be keen with.
Folks just a question regarding the knock sensor. My wire leading from the KS on the engine is white/red. My existing cabin loom has white/red too. So I am assuming it's all wired up.
When I go to my HA Motorsports diagram for wiring reference, which is what I used for the VTEC solenoid, it says the KS should wire into the ECU at D6. My D6 is empty. I'm confused.
Is it wired correctly or perhaps not?
Only the vtec engines had the knock sensor, so you don't have it in your gsi cabin loom. Obd2a Pinout says it should be red/blue
You will be causing a dtc by not having it wired up.
Run a new wire to d6.
Thanks RC. I'll hook it up. I hope I've got the right sensor? I'm guessing from information I've found on the net that the knock sensors is located to the left of the oil filter when looking at the back of the engine. I would have thought a KS would be in the head but it's all I could find when searching the net.
It's in the block right up the top. Be careful when trying to plug in the connector, when the sensors are old the plastic gets brittle and they are very easy to snap off.Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
Then they are an absolute bitch to get to with the intake manifold on as well so replacing it sucks. Getting good access with a spanner is not going to be easy, it may be slightly easier on a c7 vs a c2 manifold so you might be lucky.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...f267cf3e55.jpg
Fantastic. Much appreciated.
Which I have now found red/blue on the bottom most passenger suspension tower plug. Present on engine loom blank on cabin loom. Good stuff.
Wired up and no more engine light. Stoked. Thanks RC.
Well I have performed a cold engine compression test and numbered as cylinder 1 from drivers side I got 210-240-240-240. A nip of oil down cyl one saw my numbers bump up a smidge. I don't know what the allowable variation is but 30psi sounds significant.
Ideally you want them within about 10% so that's probably a bit too much of a drop, but the compression figures themselves are very healthy so I wouldn't be too upset.
Is the car blowing smoke under load? Get it looked at and find out if it's a valve or ring issue.
I'm just trying to locate some extra length feeler gauges to double check the valve clearances with regards to the compression variance before I look further. This week I'll try an oil change just in the hope of something changing. I'll see if I can chase a leak down tester.
Yeah Dougie prior to me wiring in the knock sensor it was blowing smoke under load. I haven't tried seeing what it's like since the sensor has been wired in.
What colour smoke?
Combo of blue and black.
I have just set all valve clearances and found all of them to be pretty generous. Most of the exhaust had pretty big gaps.
Rest to •155mm inlet and •178mm exhaust. Specs said •17 +\- •02 and •19 +/- •02
It was a little rattley.
I've yet to try it for smoke with the knock sensor wired up. I've also made an oil change to full synthetic. I'll see how it goes over the next few days.
Well I've come to the conclusion this thing is up for a rebuild. Damn it lol. Out it will come again. I can't stomach getting around in a smokey car.
Just deciding on a home build or off to the shop.
I've done a number of motorcycle engine rebuilds and 1 car engine rebuild. Not really sure I'm in the mood for a rebuild that could take months due to time.
Folks I've finally finally pulled this engine out for a rebuild. The machinist has informed me the current pistons are not up to spec. Well worn and a reborn to 1st oversize is on the cards.
I've called Honda for genuine pistons/rings. Price is $850
Looking at eBay stuff from the States. These two kits in particular?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NPR-81-5M...3D111417188700
Or
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YCP-B16-B...1851&_trkparms
Anyone had any experience? There are piston kits all the way through the price range which well exceed the Honda genuine. You get what you pay for?
Thanks
I remember that RS machines pistons used to be popular for B series rebuilds. Not sure what they cost but it might be worth having a look at.Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
Don't really know about NPR, never heard of them.
CP is good
I've used those NPR ones in the first link. There are reviews on Honda tech etc and many reports of successful builds.
Mines in a b18c2, has done a bunch of track days without any issues. It never burns oil like it used to pre-build and feels like it picked up a few kw.
The castings seemed pretty good, but I have no idea if the teflon coating will last. It looks different to the oem coating on c7 pistons.
One thing to check is if they are USDM versions (I think p73AO?) because they have lower compression than the jdm. I think the Audm is the same as us anyway.
Just keep in mind they most likely won't be as durable as an OEM or forged pistons. So far mine have been good for a few years in any case.
Hi aldo,how many km on the b18c7?
cool read btw :)
Thanks for the responses folks much appreciated.
Beeza had tallied up 215000 kms. Previous owner had given it a bit of a hard life I suspect. Interesting that the machinist has found that the seller to me wasn't telling the truth on a rebuild. All internals are originals. He tells me the bottom end has never been apart.
I thought it went pretty well to be honest and the fuel economy was ok too. He says they are a pretty robust engine.
Anyway I just want a tight motor that I can put some distance work on without having to cart a 44 gallon drum of oil with me.
My final oil consumption test revealed 6 litres of 10/30 synthetic was chewed up in 4200kms.
Yeah,that's heaps.
Thank you mate u got me to look into it.
Looks like about 1 litre of 10/40 nulon full synthetic in 3000k's.157,000k's.Same engine. Was compression tested 220/240/240/240 but added cerma which restores compression,so need to test again and monitor oil consumption. I've only had the engine for the said 3000km.
I know these engines burn a bit of oil,seems mine is burning a bit more due to lower compression in the 1 cylinder like yours but not as bad...,yet ;)
Thanks for sharing this mate.
They usually blow up at 160'000kms
Compression in mine was still all above 200. Oil control rings were gone.
Piston rings?
So these pistons will bump up the compression by the looks of it. It says 11.8 - 12.6 depending on head/block combo.Stock is 11.1
Must be cause they are oversized?
Oversized bore will lower the compression slightly but not much. Don't go by what the eBay ad says it is too general, use some of the online calculators for b series. The calculators vary a bit so it will only be a rough idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
Ah true.So they are a stock replacement then,but .5mm over sized? A compression is tester only $20 off ebay,just bought one.
At this stage I'm unsure of the oversize spec. I'll know by next week. He's just left it up to me which piston brand I would like to go with.
The vehicle is a long term keeper so decisions.
Yes, stock P73-AO dome shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
Check your stock pistons, the part number should be on the top. If they are p73-AO they are the same dome volume. Otherwise P73-OO (JDM) are higher compression, I think 10.6:1 vs 11.1:1. I would think the audm are the same as usdm with the lower compression, But with an unknown motor beat to confirm the part number on the piston or cc them to know for sure.
If I were to do it again I'd probably get some oem pistons from the US or amayama, they are much cheaper than here.
Example
http://www.icbmotorsport.com/intyrpikitb1.html
Nice one rc,bookmarked! Thanks mate.
So to swap over pistons only,car goes up on hoist,remove sump etc and pistons are removed from the underneath yeah? 5-6 hours labour + pistons.
600 + 400 = $1000? Does this sound right. Need to change anything else while it's open?
I'm just planning for future. .
The engine is generally removed from the vehicle and completely pulled apart. The block needs to be bare to be bored and honed..Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
There's heaps of info around the web on rebuilding engines. I would advise doing some reading..
Would advise not to advise lol
Have read heaps but I have questions,do you mind if I ask?
No bore and hone,just replace pistons only.Have seen it done.
My question is if I replaced the pistons now would that avoid a bore and hone or you should do them both really anyways.
Lol how will the new piston rings break-in if the cylinders aren't honed? I'm intrigued.Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
Just give em a quick rub with 180 grit, she'll be right
LOL there's ALWAYS one isn't there.
Now,instead of Google searching it,I'm gonna ask another question super-man.Just to give you a good ol' laugh :)
Hone-ing lol doesn't mean you need over sized pistons? But how do you really know if it requires a re-bore?
Dafuq are you on about?Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
I'm saying that new piston rings need a honed cylinder wall to break-in.
You are telling me that it's possible to simply fit a new set of pistons and rings without any machine work.. Can you also explain to me why you would do this, knowing that your piston rings won't break-in properly?
I'm gonna do this next time I do a rebuild. Good info in hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by YeahByuddy
Cheers gotcha.How do you know if you need a re-bore though? Inspection and measurement?
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customa...ar29948_18.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by beeza
http://bfy.tw/C0j8
first result
Nice link :) hehe
Yeah Have to inspect and measure.
There's no point in replacing pistons only. If they are worn out of spec or failed then you will need a bore and hone anyway at the least. You also will need to ensure correct piston to bore clearance then as super-da9 says the honing is important for bedding in the rings. While it's out you would at the minimum replace the bearings as well, clearances have to be checked at the same time the crank may need polishing or linishing of the journals.
There's many things to check when the block is apart, it really needs full inspection before reassembling anyway. The cost will always be more than you think, if you do all the removal, tear down and reassembly yourself I'd guess prices around the 3k mark once you factor in all the consumables/gaskets/seals etc that would be needed. That is for a cheap build too without any fancy brand name parts bumping up the price.
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by rc_
With old engines like these it's almost not even worth it if you don't do most of the tear down and assembly yourself.
Only if cylinder walls are damaged.
This video has a description of parts changed and why.Also swaps em' out from UNDER the car.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KmdpRxWq7gA
Taken from the comments:
"boris lizz
hello nice video.i have one question ,can i just fit in my new piston rings like u with honing or boring the cylinder wall? my cylinder walls look good.most people say, it is good to hone if not the piston rings will not seat well and engine will burn oil.hope to hear from you thanks."
"Replace piston ring in the cylinder liner does not need to wear down. If the cylinder liners are worn. Need Cylinder Boring. And replace the oversized piston rings. Please check the roundness of cylinder liners. And boring lines.*This video shoot. Engine overheated cylinder head gasket damaged Replace cylinder head gasket set and piston ring group. And cylinder liners is not damaged. Replace the piston ring STD. To improve the situation on the engine oil."
Beeza, that is not the way to do it matey.
It's very obscure and far from ideal. I would not trust the comments in a strange youtube video to tell you how to properly carry out something as important as an engine overhaul...
This is really information that you will find in books and proper articles about rebuilding, such as the SA designs book on rebuilding B series or some of the articles on websites like evans tuning which is why I advise you do some extensive research yourself, since the information is out there for you. That's how I got all my info when I rebuilt my B18 so there's no reason why you can't.
I was really trying to avoid spoon-feeding but none the less, here's the issue with this method you're suggesting. As a matter of fact, piston rings will always require break-in. They will always have high spots on them that need to be worn down during this process, and that's exactly what honing is for. To give the piston rings an abrasive surface to wear against. Getting the break-in process right is a huge deciding factor in whether your rebuilt engine is going to perform well or chug oil.
The tl;dr is:
New piston rings = honed cylinder walls. Always. It's never recommended to try and take dodgy shortcuts just to save having to pull the block from the car.
Now can we please stop clogging up this poor guys thread lol
Alright,cheers for that.
And pulling pistons out through the bottom? Dunno how Honda design their blocks but I haven't come across too many blocks that let you pull the pistons out through the bottom. Usually the castings are designed to give you strength around crank journals, so pistons won't fit through the opening.
You can fit new pistons and rings without a hone job, but that's akin to a paint job without even bothering to wash the car first.
Once stripped, measure the bores (diameter, taper, ovality) and work out what remedial works are needed. If you're really lucky, you can use original bores and pistons, just new rings. This is a quick, cheap and rough rebuild that will get you going again. More likely you'll need a slight oversize with the first oversize set of pistons and new rings.
Don't forget to replace bearings at the same time. The increased BMEP will kill your old bearings in no time.
Do it once, do it right and don't be afraid to spend a few $$ on quality parts.
Thanks Hondarally,cheers mate.
Fellas I'm at the stage of looking at big end an main bearings. Honda mentions something about colour coding.
Does anyone know what this is about? Is that sizing or placement on the crank?
Its sizing..
Unless you are buying oem bearings you won't get the same tolerances of bearings.Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
Your builder should measure the clearances for you but essentially aftermarket ie ACL only come in standard or extra clearance for race application (can't remember what they call this exactly). Honda bearings come in different grades to keep tighter tolerance on clearances. It is marked on the case and crank, you can only see this after disassembly.
Go buy one of these, it will answer pretty much all your questions and guide you through the build process.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360604443521
That is a very helpful book when you are new to the whole rebuilding process
Appreciate that. Thanks I'll have a read.
Hi fellas I tried ICB Motorsport and seems they don't do orders to Australia.
Hey guys I’m stuck with locating the fuel pump fuse. I’m ready for start up on this Integra but need to momentarily stop the pump. Any help much appreciated.
Hmmm. Just unplug it :P but I think it’s under the dash labeled pgmfi.
Cheers. I’ll check it out. I thought it was under the bonnet. I can’t access the boot area. Cars been sitting for 5 months getting the engine/box rebuilt. Just trying to wind the motor over for oil pressure before it fires up.
I’m excited lol.
Don’t need the boot. Just take off the useless rear seat. Pump cover is right under it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
All done cheers [emoji6]
Well motor fired up nicely. I’ll have to wait a few days before I can take it for a run.
This whole process has dragged on a little lol. Shoulda just saved a little and bought the new turbo Type R.
But then you wouldn’t have all this knowledge! :PQuote:
Originally Posted by aldo10
Too true lol.
Drives great! Good to take it for a run and not have a black rear bumper.
Everything feels good. Clutch, gearbox etc. no check lights on the dash etc.
There is a lingering issue that affected the motor prior to rebuild and still does. As it comes off a cold high idle and you are driving, if you come up to a set of lights off the throttle it almost stalls. Once it’s hot it’s perfect. It’s sort of that initial 3 to 4 minutes warm up period.
I had an old Pulsar with this issue and it was an idle up solenoid?
Could it be the same? Clean up or replace?
Well after 900 kms the motor has freed up a little and driving sweet. Lol.
It’s been a long project lol. Finally!
Started off at around 10L/100kms and now getting 7L/100.
Oil pressure is getting to 75psi at 2000rpm.
So far so good.
Nice work. I had idle problems that turned out to be dirty Throttle body and iacv.
Thanks. I’ll get in there and clean things up with some carby cleaner. See what damage I can inflict lol. Apart from that I can say things are perfect.
Fellas, is carby clean safe enough to spray into this IACV?
It looks like a concertina style rubber boot. I know what carb cleaner does to rubber.
I used brake cleaner but took the rubber gasket off first.
Well I used throttle body cleaner. It’s worse. Lol. Stalls constantly now coming off revs. Bloody pain in the butt.
I’m getting over this car real quick now lol.
I have a perfectly reliable turbo diesel Hilux that just doesn’t play silly games. Lol
Well I’ve done a few drives in it now and it has improved quite a bit. Still not perfect but very good.
Well a new IAVC unit from Honda at a scary price has sorted it out totally. The old unit was dicey when the air cond was running.
Hi fellas, it seems the problem has returned. Certainly scratching my head now. I even went to the trouble of replacing the oxygen sensor in the exhaust.
Can anyone suggest where else to look?
It’s in the warm up phase of a cold start. Once the engine is warm it’s fine. When the engine is dead cold it’s fine too. It’s just as it gets up to operating temperature.
sounds like an idle stepper issue or maybe there is a vacuum leak somewhere and once everything heats and expands it seals to the point it doesnt affect the idle? try making a vacuum tester and connect to the throttle pressurize it and listen for air leaks in the intake gasket etc, use soapy water to look for bubbles. Make sure you do it with a cold engine to replicate when the car idles poorly.