Vtec all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Vtec all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So after 7 pages... anyone able to name a production 1.6 mivec that is more powerful than the b16b?
Isn't mid - high 14's the average 1/4 mile times for stock OZ DC2R / DC5R? Driver dependent of course. Some may agree some may argue with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiR CRX
So I guess it just prove that a Lancer with 6A12 V6 Mivec is a good match up with your average ITR's. Stock manual FTO Mivec can do high 14's - low 15's to be honest.
Some may argue with me with this, but a manual FTO mivec can outperform any stock Civic / Integra VTiR anytime of the day. But of course ITR's r a different story. Though I dont drive a FTO, I have as much respect for this car as ITR's. They have similar potential but it's just unlcuky MIVEC dont get as much aftermarket support like the VTEC.
That's why if ever I get to sell my car, my next car gotta have VTEC in it. Not bcoz VTEC is faster but bcoz of the ability to make it go faster due to aftermarket support. Amongst my group of friends,I am d only one who doesn't have VTEC equipped car (BADHBT, OLM02R, ORACER,efren) this people makes me jealous.
I love both MIVEC and VTEC!!!
flyhonda, you are right, no one in the US knows what MIVEC is.
I went onto US based lancer forums asking what I should to performance wise and told them the engine is a MIVEC from an FTO.
The replies I got were "what is FTO?"
But you are right, people should respect other cars on the road. In the end of the day it's not VTEC or MIVEC which is faster, its the one with more money spent on it.
As far as more powerfull 1.6 production cars are concerned, why is this so much of an issue? 1.6 MIVEC makes 131 kw and 168 nm of torque. A B18C7 DC2R engine makes 141 kw and 172nm of torque. Compare the two, and I think it is the VTEC which is pathetic not the MIVEC. Is a B16B more torque'y than a 1.6 MIVEC? I doubt it. Yes, a B16B equiped car will be quicker I think than a MIVEC car, but make ALL THINGS equal (weight, gear ratio's, driver etc) And I think VTEC will have a nasty surprise
How many kw atw doe DC5R and DC2R make?
My standard 6A12 MIVEC (exhaust only) did 112.4kw at the front wheels. This is a 1994 engine.
But with all honesty I would have to say I would pick a VTEC over a MIVEC none the less. And like HRD2BQT said it's mainly due to aftermarket parts.
Stock DC2R should at least get 90-95kw atw
Stock DC5R should at least get 95-100kw atw
that's base on AUTO SALON dynoshootout on 4th gear.
What about the 1.6L engine in the Nissan Pulsar VZ R N1? It has 197 hp (146.9 kW) from the factory. (just to add a little fuel to the fire)
i wonder what a typeS would have at the wheels since they have 154kw at the motor :)
Is Type S better than Type R?
It's different. Type R, the R stands for Racing. The body is lightened, thinner windscreen, racing bucket seats and such. With the Type S, the S stands for Sport. The interior is more comfy (with leather all around), and the suspension is probably a little bit softer for comfort.
here we go boiz
the infamous nissan sr16vvl
the blue tops made 175hp while the red tops N1 versions made 197hp :thumbsup:
http://www.billzilla.org/sr16vvl.jpg
[/Quote]
As far as more powerfull 1.6 production cars are concerned, why is this so much of an issue? 1.6 MIVEC makes 131 kw and 168 nm of torque. A B18C7 DC2R engine makes 141 kw and 172nm of torque. Compare the two, and I think it is the VTEC which is pathetic not the MIVEC. Is a B16B more torque'y than a 1.6 MIVEC? I doubt it. Yes, a B16B equiped car will be quicker I think than a MIVEC car, but make ALL THINGS equal (weight, gear ratio's, driver etc) And I think VTEC will have a nasty surprise[/QUOTE]
which 1.6 mivec makes that?
Ohh wow, a 1.8L engine has more torque than a 1.6L engine? Never would have guessed that. But have a look at it, the 4G93 only makes an extra 10nm from a 200cc capacity advantage. And then when you consider the B16A is pushing through a much shorter final drive.... Torque at the wheels the B16A will be in front due to the shorter gear ratio.Quote:
Originally Posted by spetz
Considering this is a SOHC 1.8 lancer you get on the streets... no twin cams, no tricky valve work... no nothing...
And considering a the 4G92 MIVEC with the same capacity as the B16A makes MORE torque than the 1.8...
Anyway PhatSol, if you notice my posts above I said ALL THINGS BEING equal and I stated gear ratios as one of them. And there is no need to add sarcasm to posts, this is a discussion not a childish arguement.
Pornstar it's the 4G92 MIVEC, 131kw and 168nm of torque. Which also makes more torque per litre than any VTEC Honda engine (I have to admit though I don't know the torque rating for the S2000 and JDM DC5R). Same with the 6A12 MIVEC and I am sure it's the same deal with the 6G72 MIVEC
I think Honda people shouldn't automatically dismiss anything but that isn't VTEC
131kws from a 1.6 well i stand corrected, i thought the B16B outpowered anything mitsubishi...
**** mitsubishi owns, ima sell my honda and get a 4g92MIVEC lancer
b16a2 has 170NmQuote:
Originally Posted by spetz
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but lets also take into account that gearing plays a big role in keeping these peaky engines in their power band.
What car is a B16A2 from? Civic coupe VTi-R?
To my understanding they only had 150nm and 118kw? This is the AUDM engine isn't it?
How many kw does a B16B have?
136kW (185PS)Quote:
Originally Posted by spetz
does that mean that the VTEC overpowers the MIVEC? Goddamn, ima sell my MIVEC powered lancer and go back to my honda VTEC
My MIVEC powered lancer does 150 kw, and has torque comparable to an H22A...
God damn! I don't even need to rev into MIVEC zone to beat B16A's :wave:
yeah that maybe so but you also have two extra cylinders and almost half a litre extra displacement:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by spetz
Ok MR VTEC I'll give you that one...
But I also have over 200kg extra weight over an EG hatch...
Are we talking about the engine now or the engine AND the car together ?
mivec is full of shit over rated. if u put the same amount of money time an effort into a vtec honda in comparison to mivec, it will hose a mivec hands down. I come from malaysia and both mitsubish and honda ar very popular. But with personal experience i think vtec is the way if ur in N/A four cyclinda.
I won't even begin to peruse all the responses thus far so please forgive any ignorance on my behalf if I've touched on a matter previously mentioned...common sense should dictate the replies these type of topics instigate on here...I adore my Honda to death but then again I pity those fools whom believe VTEC is all that and is the equivalent of N/A boost, it really does give us a bad name...I have no qualms with any manufacturer as they all have specific goals regarding what vehicles they produce whether its sports-oriented, family-directed, comfort, boosted or N/A...Honda's aim is to produce cars of quality and extracting maximum potential by staying naturally aspirated so to question or compare them to the turbo rides of other manufacturers would be plain naive...believe me, if Honda decided to tread the boosted path, other manufacturers would take note and a sense of nervousness would come over them...
If you get the better of my B16A2, you'd be doing very well mate...Quote:
Originally Posted by spetz
For someone who tries so hard to write so academically and present there post to such a high degree of perfection you contradict yourself nicely......Quote:
Originally Posted by CRX-Ando
you say that to compare a n/a car to a turbo car is naive, yet you take it upon yourself to say to spetz (whos car is n/a) that 'If you get the better of my B16A2, you'd be doing very well mate' when your car is in fact boosted.:rolleyes:
GOOD ONE:rolleyes: :thumbsup:
MIVEC is not overrated....epecially when you put MIVEC into the 4G63 engine (ala EvoIX) :D
Ohhhh yeah, MIVEC power :p
Once again, my knowledge of Mr Spetz's ride is that it is MIVEC & nothing else so this was purely deducted from that, further mods are unknown to me as I did initially inform that I hadn't read all the previous posts in this topic...and believe me mate, I don't go out of my way to use "perceived" intelligent vocab...Quote:
Originally Posted by MR-VTEC
'my knowledge of Mr Spetz's ride is that it is MIVEC & nothing else so this was purely deducted from that'Quote:
Originally Posted by CRX-Ando
what was deducted from what:confused: i already stated that it was n/a. the whole point that i was getting at was that you said it would be naive to compare a turbo car to an n/a car then you went on to compare your boosted crx to spetz's n/a lancer:rolleyes:
as for your stint about how you dont go out of your way to use intelligent vocab, my opinion and many others opinion is that you do, but whatever man im not here to argue with you about that.;)
It was deducted from his post depicting 150kW...apologies as I didn't feel the desire the read the prior 9 or so pages...all is good as I have no issues with anyone...I too am not here to cause debates/stir amongst fellow forumers but in the face of the endless amount of crap that is evidenced on forums these days, the way I post should no way be the topic of discussion...inform me where I've crossed the line in regards to forum rules & I'll cease my contribution on here...if not, I'll continue on...we all have our own opinions & I regard yours as such...peace out :)
Thanks MR-VTEC ;)
And CRX-Ando... you have a boosted VTEC.
Put a Evo IX MIVEC turbo engine in my car.
We'll see who has the better of who :)
Although I don't think comparing VTEC to turbo is so "naive".
I like to think that both a turbo and VTEC is a gimmick to make a small capacity engine go quick. So they are somehow comparable in my opinion.
I could well follow up with a [insert boosted NSX engine here] in my CRX reply but it accomplishes nothing...I think after 10 pages, most of us are somewhat over it...VTEC this...MIVEC that...both marvels in their own right so let's leave it as that...if it runs to my satisfaction and serves my needs whether boosted or N/A, I'd be happy with either of them to reside in my garage...Quote:
Originally Posted by spetz
no way manz
u know what your a panzy!
i wouldnt be satisfied with wat i got unless i know that iv beaten every single car that i could possibly take onnn!!!!!
(joking on the panzy comment pleaze dun hurt me!!!!)
but yer its true its sensless toking bout mivec vS vtec because itl keep going onn and onn and onnn and onn and on! its useless
but if u ask me i think both of them are evenly matched but with the mivec having jus a lil bit more torque (saying this only because the only mivec i know is in the FTO)
Reason why FTO has more torque is because they have an extra 2 more cylinders and a 0.2 (10%) more litres on top of the dc2r's =). Now if FTO was running only on 4cylinders with MIVEC... wonder what would happen =)....Quote:
Originally Posted by SpOOn-FED
who in here is up for a test drive in my car? too many shit going around in this thread. Too many highly technical responses base on what you read or hear from another source. The problem here is, people tend to jump into conclusion all the time that MIVEC is rubbish when they haven't even driven a mivec car all their life or perhaps some user here don't even have a VTEC. Fair enough, VTEC has a welln known reputation when it comes to Natural Aspiration - but don't you guys ever think it's only bcoz of the aftermarket support they get from a well know company? (lucky bastard :) :) )
The engine design is relatively similar to one another, so I would assum that a mivec car would also respond well to a similar modifications your average VTEC has got. I am a non-conformist, I love my MIVEC that I wouldn't even swap it over normal B16's or B18's but I want my next car tobe a honda, equipped with JAPSPEC B18C-R - my car already ran mid 14's in stock trim. Only Stock ITR's can clock this time. What does that mean? They go fairly quick right? It' just bad that it wud cost me an arm and a leg to modify
C'mon guys, let stop being bias for once in our life. I must admit I'm a VTEC lover myself and thats d reason why I check out some cool honda base forum such as this and honda-tech etc etc. I got so much respect for this engine.... I'm surrounded with VTEC in my circle of friends
there's no reason why we can't or shouldn't compare factory turbo and factory N/A cars...
that's part of the fun.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
We'll have to agree to disagree ;)
And CRX-Ando, don't make me put a 6G72TT into my lancer! with the AWD drivetrain... BUAHAHAH (I wish anyway)
guy's just to let u know i think one of the best variable valve timing systems around is BMW and their Dual VANOS which allows a wider duration than any other company around..
they say it is infinitely variable.. but they do have a min and max point.. but unlike vtec which seems to have only 2 profiles.. VANOS allows different profiles at different ranges..
I think this has been covered.
And although double VANOS has variable timing it doesn't have variable lift.
Besides, i-VTEC has variable timing and lift.
Double vanos is VTC, but unlike VTC which is only on the intake side, Double VANOS is on both intake and exhaust (hence Double). This is similar to the Toyota Altezza with the 3S-GE 2L 4-cyl 206hp engine, which has VVT on both intake and exhaust (no "i" though). With BMW, they don't need a 2nd cam profile, because their Double VANOS engines are large capacity in the first place, and they are polished, lightened and balanced from the factory. So just VANOS is enough to provide low RPM torque.
What is the point of comparing the outputs of a JDM 4G92 MIVEC with an AUDM B16A2? Lower the comperession of the 4G92 MIVEC to run on Australian 96 octane premium like the B16A2 and then do the comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by spetz
ive driven a tiptronic fto 2.0 v6 mivec and believe me it was respectable but not impressive. Granted i would have gotten more punch out of a manual version but vtec integra's seem much more ANGRY!!!
and for those that still doubt vtec's performance, look at an fto vs integra type R and you will see that TypeR is faster and utilyzes less cc and two pistons less also!!!!
-go the honda's-
DC2R versus GPX/GPvR is not a very fair comparison considering the fto is over 100kg heavier!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKillerAnt
hey thats true also but still
you gota look at it another way the FTO has 200cc advantage as well as two extra pistons....
youd think that it would be a lil bit more fair....?(wouldnt it?)
but i had an FTO and now i own a DC5R
dont rule out the FTO or the mivec i realy havto admit i think they are very evenly matched jus a lil less weight for the FTO and you would have and VTEC ass kicking machine!...
but i leane towards the HONDA VTEC built engines rather than the mitsubishi even though my FTO was a 1999 model (very rare) i still had problems with it...for some reason everytime i floord the gas pedal seriouse smoke came out of it and not the good kind.......
and everytime i tried fixing it nothing would work so i gave up
it jus somethign about the V6 packages that mitsubishi offers that raises allot of questions......HONDA doesnt get as many complaints............
but the V6 mivec engine of the FTO is very compettative when kept in 100% tip top shape.........it competed i think i few years ago in the JGTC in the GT300 class and was actually very competative and could even keep up with the GT500 cars but im not sure if dey still compete nows.....
anyone know?
ya ya ya...what so ever...take your FTO and race with an ITR...then we'll talk...what ever 200cc advantages or 200kg advantages..no point argue over it...if any FTO can show the freaking Drag time Slip doing a 14.00sec or lower, Show it!...but for a ITR to Do a 14.00sec...i've seen it...but does anybody come through a FTO doing that?...hmmm...
anyway...i have nothing against Mivew or what so ever...but just that Talk is nothing...FTO driver out there, race with a ITR...and then tell us the result...we would love to hear from it...
Although i myself drving a Vtec, but still, i've been won by a 1.8Mivec before...believe it or not, is up to you...i guess Mivec isn't slow afterall...but thats when my car was standard...hehehe...
anyway..keep it in our league...we won't wanna compare some GT cars over our road cars...just street style dude...hehehe...
lastly, Vtec still Roars...haha...
bro chillax im jus referin to the reliability of that engine geez tok bout hot air y dun u chill for a bitQuote:
Originally Posted by pgclee
and man dun judge a car unless youv driven it. you bad mouthin a car dat u dun evn know bout, get it rite chillax a lil and stop shooting your mouth like u a nissan driver aight........
Lets keep this to constructive criticism guys.....or else this thread is going to have to get locked.
This is a warning!
Opps...yea.."i've only driven my crappy Civic my whole life"...damn...sad for me...isn't it...HAHahahaha....
well from my personal experience, ive got a H22 in my accord with no mods watsoeva... meaning no CAI, no zorst and i bet a mivec FTO. so hhmmmmmm so wouldnt that mean VTEC is better?
no offence or anything, but thats like saying i'll buy a FTO and put a EVO motor in it with no mods and drag you. engine conversions are in a different league altogether.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickiipoohz
i dont think they have 1.8l mivecs. unless you dragged a hybrid?Quote:
Originally Posted by pgclee
i think this has got out of hand now..haha I dont think the FTO was made to beat the ITR at all..so i dont see the point in bagging the FTO against Integras best. It cant be as bad as some of you guys put it, if it could win the 1994 Japan car of the year.
of course VTEC man. No more copy cat.
I’m closing this thread everything that needs to be said has been said and now its just descending into talk about street racing.
*LOCKED*