i think it should be i dont think a holden engine can be considered the best let alone good ?
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i think it should be i dont think a holden engine can be considered the best let alone good ?
hands down best v8 in the world is a Kieth Back Hemi
an did soeone mention holden well they had a 6cyl 202 witch they tried to bring up to times in the vk commodore by putting injection on it big failure holden gave up making a 6cyl an commisioned buick to make them a v6 same with the v8s the 5ltr 308 an the odd strockers in the hsvs were the last holden motors ever built holden no longers makes motors
When are people going to get through their heads that Holden are a total piece of **** company?Quote:
Originally Posted by V8_Hero
Honda is RACE BRED you wank, F1 is going to be V8's and Honda will DESTROY anything Holden could ever come up with. Not that F1 in their right mind would let a ****ty company like Holden anywhere near the pinicale of motor sport.
Honda have won F1, and Superbikes. Holden's idea of more power is: "errr derrr..need morree powerr...better make engine biggerrr! hand me a VB"
Go back to your depreciated pos VT commodore which is now worth $4K you stain.
/Rant
~Stabo
I suppose that new engine plant in melbourne isnt producing any engines?Quote:
holden motors ever built holden no longers makes motors
I love it when people who drive jap cars bag Holdens. I used to do it till I actually drove one. They're not as bad as everyone says, sure they use older, pushrod technology but it works. Find me a honda that you can modify engine wise to make the same power and torque while staying na for the same money? That's right there isn't one. LS1's are the easiest motors to get power out of, sure they're in big heavy cars, but the ss commys I've driven hven't handled ike a boat as everyone says:rolleyes: It's the same deal with the ford motors, the new boss 260 and 290 are awesome motors, my brother's GT made 240kw at the wheels STOCK and a ****load of torque. Now I'm not bagging Honda, I still drive a civic with a b16 swap and there's an s2000 in the garage along side the adventra (ls1 powered). My next car will most likely be a Commodore purely for the fact I won't have to spend as much cash as I would have to get power out of the motor. Sure my Civic handles well but at the moment I want more off the line and at the lights:) Plus I love rwd and if you're into Honda's then you gotta pay a pretty penny to get into a rwd;) So to everyone bagging the LS1's 2's etc maybe you should look at the corvette's i the states, there's a reason why they're considered one of the ultimate sports cars;) If you want torque, don't look at a Honda unless it has a snail attatched to it lol;) A cammed V8 is an awesome experience to drive:)
ha ha ive got a holden ive spent 40 gs on
40g on motor work or everything ie body interior etc? All I'm talking about is motor, any car is gonna cost heaps if mod the entire thing lol;)
and i've got a nissan
spent that on the whole thing but my point was who doesnt know holdens ha ha next time your in sydney call into finagan automotive there you will see the holden i worked on for years the sony auto sound commodore V8 supercar oh yeah an tell him darryl says hi
and also GM motors has given holden permision to reproduce even more of their v6 engines based on orders from the melbourne plant
The only reason holden can't compete with honda is because honda's market is worldwide, and holden's is mostly local. Now I'm sure Holden would love to go worldwide but they probably can't afford to. If they tried to, their cars would probably have to be more expensive and they wouldn't be able to compete as far as value for money goes therefore sending them up s*** creek.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stabo
Anyway I reckon one of the best v8's ever invented is the LS7 in the new ZO6. 500 hp. 0-100 in 3.5 (.1 sec slower than an enzo and quicker than porsche carrera gt, merc slr, ford gt, ferrari f430, dodge viper etc) and it's cheaper than all of them.
How did 'best v8 engine in the world' come to be best car with a v8 engine?
totally different:rolleyes:
Its funny to note how some of you associate holdens with the typical male booner, its pathetic that you can generalise so much. You would probably be the same to hate all ***onese because of a minority group...
Its funny how you all bag the LS1/LS2 when there are people running 11s without forced induction, that includes the happy gas aswell ;) Oh and why does the engine have to have OHC technology when its running on a proven formula that works..?
Not to say its the 'best' engine of course, because there is a lot of variables that need to be covered, as one can not determine the 'best' engine just because it revs to 13,000rpm or because it does 700klms on a full tank.
One thing that Holden/GM engines have over other brands is that they can produce a powerful 5.7 or 6.0L V8 at a reasonable price. Nevermind pushrods, when you look at DOHC engines, show me a car with that DOHC V8 engine at a price of under AU$100,000. Holden is successful in bringing the V8 muscle car experience to families who can't afford an exotic and are not willing in driving a "traditional" muscle car which is not practical for everyday commute to pick the kids up.
Allright forget the car thing but for the money it took for the engine to be built (excluding design, tooling, etc) it'd easily have the best dollar to hp ratio for the motors of those cars. I think it'd be interesting to find out which company does have the best dollar to hp ratio out of all the mass production motors out there. Funny if it went to the daihatsu .7 litre turbo donk.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
My favourite V8 would have to be anything made by Ferrari....especially the F40 engine!
Apart from that one of my other faves is the upcoming Audi RS4 V8...4.2 litre with FSI putting out 310kw at 8250rpm with 430Nm of torque...BEAUTIFUL!
As for Holden V8s....nice engines really. There isn't the outright refinement of some of the euro or Jap V8s, but they do what they are built to do, and do it well! Drove a mates R8 clubsport recently and it kept me smiling
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8_Hero
nothing produced by holden is worthy of such a title.
perhaps the f430 engine? or the c55amg
Quote:
Originally Posted by [[d a n n y]]
i would very much like to see this "v8 twin turbo soarer". There is a v8 soarer, and a twin turbo (6 cylinder) soarer, but there isnt a v8 twin turbo.
and that aside, simply saying its the best without any justification is rather stupid. what sets it apart from any other 8? it puts out around 190kw...wow. it has 32 valves...wow. next. :thumbdwn:
shouldnt this thread be in the lounge?
I would say the New Audi RS4 Engine, Revs to 8250, produces 309 KW and its only a 4.2 LITRE
Even then, it wouldn't be the best, simply best bang 4 your buck...Quote:
Originally Posted by gnx1987
Which is what this thread has become, holden v8's are great value for money, but that is completly different to being the best...
its also one of the lightest.......but its not about that
its also one of the most used (plenty of development)...........but its not about that
its also one of the most powerful (stock and modded)............but its not about that
its one of the cheapest..................but again its not about that
its one of the most effective.............but its not about that
it can be made to run many fuel types...........but again its not about that
so WHAT IS IT ABOUT THEN............is it about brand? Probably!!
Getting back to the point of the discussion... no, I dont think the LS2 is anywhere near the best V8 in the world.... Sure it's cheap for a huge displacement engine but whilst most other engine manufacturers are reducing the capacity of their engines and still making more power out of them, Holden seems to be increasing the size to achieve the same.... all about costs... and I'm sure the amount of R&D that goes into a LS2 is no where near alot of other smaller V8s.
Wow 6L is huge capacity? Damn here I was thinking a 514 ford block or a 572 gm v8 was big...
**** v8's. Give me a 4 banger any day.
Again the displacement issue. FYI most manufacturers are actually increasing their displacement, the problem with OHC etc is that its very hard to increase displacement, OHV does not suffer from this problem to the same extent. As I said before displacement does not neccessarily mean bad L/100km, the LS series engine is actually very effecient.Quote:
Getting back to the point of the discussion... no, I dont think the LS2 is anywhere near the best V8 in the world.... Sure it's cheap for a huge displacement engine but whilst most other engine manufacturers are reducing the capacity of their engines and still making more power out of them, Holden seems to be increasing the size to achieve the same.... all about costs... and I'm sure the amount of R&D that goes into a LS2 is no where near alot of other smaller V8s.
Some manufacturers have gone to turbo or supercharging, these technologies are basically similar to increasing displacement i.e. more psi = more fuel. The problem with this is lag, something the bigger displacement doesnt suffer as much.
Have a look at some of the most powerful modded cars, many are skylines and cars using LSx engines (vette, camaro, TA, any holdens). Both these engines are one of the best, skylines for 6s and LS for 8s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
Well, I know these engines can make big power
But really... they are sh!t...
Pushrods? Geez we are in the 21st century!
Not only that, but poor head design, piston/conrod design, crank and how it is bolted is all inferior to anything else in the world more or less.
And do not tell me you haven't seen a new holden on the side of the road with it's bonnet up. Because I certainly have on numerous occassions.
They are simply unreliable, unsophisticated, primitive engines.
A friend had a fully worked, built supercharged 5.7L ute, and it still made less kw per litre than my car... when it wasn't even working properly with a stock engine! Fair enough he was only running 6psi and had pulley's for 12+ but this is an engine with about 30K spent on it
noob question...but wtf is LS2?
Best 8 Cyl...BAR HONDA V8 engine (beats **** out of me its prodcution number is)
Geez who did the work for him? My brother's old AU XR8 pumped out around 350kw at the wheels with a basic vortech setup and had a ****load of torque. Nowhere near 30k was spent on that car. Fair enough your mates motor didn't make as many 'kw per litre', doesn't really mean ****, torque wins races, peak kw sells new cars;)Quote:
Originally Posted by spetz
Fair enough they use old technology, but it works! Ever heard of Nathan Higgins down in Melbourne? If you have a problem with LS1 heads, have a chat to him and see the work he does;)
LS2 is the new v8's in the new range of HSV's etc, 6.0 litre ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashimaro
The only reason LS1's & 2's are so powerful is directly related to capacity, that's all. Ever notice it's only the US (who build these engines) who see it as acceptable practise to substitute refinement and intelligent technology for cheap easy power by constantly increasing displacement to a none-the-wiser population. It's a pity many Australian's fall into the same category who say "it's the best because it's Australian" but is actually 100% USA export quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
So what's it about then? Don't hide behind some immature "bigger is always better mentality", take a look around and you'll see Euro and Japanese engines including v8's are much "better".
In the end though it's all about money and LS engines are the most affordable.:)
this arguement is pointless because there will always be ppl out there who will always say the LS2 is the greatest engine ever built, and that is because they are narrow minded holden loving **%$#@, but thats another thread!
point is even if this thread said "the best V8 in a aussie car" i think the BOSS motor would sh*t all over the LS2, but thats just my opinion, to me the BA GT feels a hell of a lot gruntier, smoother, and sounds 1000 times better than any other 'aussie' car ive driven.
I agree somewhat with the two above posts. I don't think the LS1 and LS2 are the best V8 motors in the world, but they are still a good motor. I'd pick probably the bmw v8's or some other european motor like the Audi. The reason the LS1 has so much support is because it is an affordable motor that has the ability to produc insane amounts of power and it's the same with all old school v8s ie big block hemi's, gm and fords. Look at MRMAD for example, Brodix alloy tall block, capacity of 441ci, twin turbo, 2000hp. How many new V8 motors do you see being modified besides the LS1? Not many, if any;) As for Japanese ' hi tech':rolleyes: V8's, aftermarket support? Manufacturer support? Hmmm don't think either exist much in Australia..
LS2 is the 6.0L V8 from GM used in the Corvette.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashimaro
There is no more BAR. It's just Honda (YAY!!!). You still haven't seen if the engine will last 1 round of F1 racing. So how can you say it is the best?
Boss V8 is a good step in introducing newer technologies to large capacity V8s. But, did you notice that the redline of the Boss V8 is even lower than an LS1 pushrod V8? Even the Boss has only a 9.5:1 compression ratio compared to the Holden's 10.5:1. I'm not saying that the Boss is a bad engine. no way. It's making 500Nm out of 5.4L while LS1 is only making 470Nm out of a larger 5.7L. It is a good engine, but I'd prefer to see Ford trying to push the boundaries and take full advantage of DOHC like what Honda has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by locote
Unless you want to extract as much power as possible out of the engine, going DOHC with V8 with less than 100hp/L is an expensive effort on selling engines just because it uses DOHC (and hence give a market perception that it is newer and better). The power output of the Boss V8 is attainable using pushrods, while at the same time keeping the engine lighter, cheaper, less parasitic loss from the valvetrain and flatter to fit lower cars (LS1 does not need a bulge in the bonnet, but Boss V8 does).
OHV and OHC are both old designs (is does not make them worse). Some technologies are not worth the trouble, look at the many sacrifices you have to put up with having more complex engines. The LS engines have many positive features, that I have pointed out. So far many here have only put forward the arguement of displacement to power ratio.Quote:
Well, I know these engines can make big power
But really... they are sh!t...
Pushrods? Geez we are in the 21st century!
Not only that, but poor head design, piston/conrod design, crank and how it is bolted is all inferior to anything else in the world more or less.
And do not tell me you haven't seen a new holden on the side of the road with it's bonnet up. Because I certainly have on numerous occassions.
They are simply unreliable, unsophisticated, primitive engines.
A friend had a fully worked, built supercharged 5.7L ute, and it still made less kw per litre than my car... when it wasn't even working properly with a stock engine! Fair enough he was only running 6psi and had pulley's for 12+ but this is an engine with about 30K spent on it
As for bad head, conrod, crank and how its put together, tell me why how these engines can pull out massive hp along with excellent fuel economy (for the power)..........look at the bigger 6.0L engine being more effecient and environmentally friendly than the 5.7L.
The engine and tranny of top v8 holdens are actually very stout, holdens use a similar tranny to the vette and also the viper (both in the supercar class).
To answer another one of your questions yes I have seen plenty of holdens at the side of the road, however in their defence there are far more holdens out there that have huge hp and also running very high number of km's. In an equal ratio I have seen fan for jap and european cars on the side of the road, than I have holdens. I would put my trust in a holden when going out to the outback or over long distances than any toyota or nissans (this is coming from a current nissan x2 owner). My experiences with holdens have been possitive, im also guessing that many trust holdens reliability (since there are many people driving holdens).
Finally this kw per litre arguement is not a very good arguement, what is the point for it. Its power and/or fuel economy that im interested in. I do agree that smaller engines have their purposes in europe and also in japan, where they limit the capacities. However we are not europe or japan. Unlike europe america never guaged their economy on engine size but on the actual fuel consumed per # of miles, this in my view is a better indicator of effeciency.
Ok let put it this way how easy is it to get 700hp RELIABLY out of your engine and get the same fuel economy (prior to mods i.e. STOCK) when driving in a sedate manner, with only 30k in the kitty litter..................my guess is not very easy if not impossible.Quote:
They are simply unreliable, unsophisticated, primitive engines.
A friend had a fully worked, built supercharged 5.7L ute, and it still made less kw per litre than my car...
Ive never said that LSx are the best engines, but they are befinately one of the best. Many here bag them for being pushrod or have the perception that they are low tech and cr@p, this I dont agree with. As for being narrow minded (hopefully it wasnt directed at me) because my current cars include 2 nissans, 1 ford and 1 holden. I love my nissan (especially my 300zxTT) but would not rate them as being more reliable than my trusty ford and holden. Dont get me wrong maintained properly nissans and jap cars run fine but when not maintained proplerly (or even maintained) I find holdens/ford to be more reliable.Quote:
this arguement is pointless because there will always be ppl out there who will always say the LS2 is the greatest engine ever built, and that is because they are narrow minded holden loving **%$#@, but thats another thread!
With newer cars not the problem is not mechanical reliability its electrical/signal, this is one of the pitfalls of a complex engine. Just have a look at BMWs and MB's reliability especially when it comes to electical stuff..............not very good!!!!
Well said monaroCountry. Anyone who has driven a 500hp V8 will know how awesome it is. Bang for buck + reliable = V8;) Before everyone starts up with saying their not reliable, turbo a Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Anything and see how reliable it is for the cash you spend and th power it makes;) Just as a point of interest, I know people with all different kinds of cars ranging from na hondas to supercharged and turbo V8s and so far the cars that are the quickest for the least dollars, while still staying reliable with decent fuel comsumption, are the modded na v8s;) Mate of mine has an ss that does low 12s na, simple mods and has better fuel economy than my adventra (totally stock ls1) and probably even my civic lolQuote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
But anyway...back to the topic: Each to their own, some people like one thing, other like another:) I still can't figure out whty this topic was started on a Honda forum?
YEAH why was this started in a HONDA forum.
i think 99% of ppl here wouldnt choose a commodore/falcon over a DC5 or S2000 even NSX.
RIGHT?????
since driving a HONDA i find it the most enjoyable car that i have owned.
having owned a falcon, commodore, 200sx i have to say my GSI would out handle them 3 easy and eat the falcon and commodore in a straight line.
not to mention its a hell of a lot better in fuel economy.
For those who say pushrods are ancient and DOHC is the ONLY way, why don't your drop your dino-fuel burning lump of metal and go clean with new hydrogen/electric/compressed air engines? :D
Pushrods may be older, but they are not worse than DOHC. There are applications where pushrods are more suitable than DOHC.
i said it once and i'll say it again, 1uz-fe 15years old quad cam 4l lexus v8.
6bolt mains and super over engineered with a meesly 190kw. these things will take 12psi of booste on stock internals and with changed to forged pistons and rods will safely make 1000hp ie thats y the supra boys are finaly waking up and changing out there 1jz and 2jz's for them these things are incredibly underated and cheap and all the ls1 baggers, just add booste to a ls1 and they turn into wild machines for a low low price.
after every thing tho, wats more important, awsome power or that un mistakeable old skool wild american burble of 351 clevland with big cams and holly 850 or soming simmilar.
cheap wine comes in 6L! :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by V8_Hero
12psi and forgies to make 1000hp hey, wow I never knew it was so easy! Just messin with buddy;) I like the 1uz-fe motor, so smooth, so much potential, but I like the rumble of other 8's more lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by urtwhistle
And to all those saying GM V8's are pieces of ancient shit with old technology, I'll take an LT-5 from a Corvette ZR-1. Production motor, all aluminium block, cast iron main bearings supports cast in, built for high revs. 32 valve (4 valves per cylinder;) ) 5.7 litre DOHC V8, 72000rpm, 405hp. Released in 1990 (375hp model, 405hp version was released in 93). Gm had Lotus design the motor and it was built by Mercury Marine. Only about 7000 vehicles got this motor, I'd kill for one lol, there's a red lx Torana hatch in qld with one in it, stock with an exhaust it ran 12.9 down the quarter... @ 111mph..can you say low 12's?
Hehehe
Holden muscle, it's just funny that some people are even typing LS2 or what ever number so close to the likes of engines that come out from BMW, Audi, Merc ect. It is different league, it's like comparing honda VTEC engines with Hyundai HVT engines.
For me 1/4mile times are not important, so big muscle car is out of my interest, but if I was ever gonna get a big 8 it would be German (BMW, Merc & Audi), I know that these are more expensive but what is the point of getting cheap 6.0l holden if the only good thing in the car is me :). Then again why go for big V8 if you can get a good 6 cyl with turbo that will be good for all type of racing as well as going to shoping, yes I am talking about GT-R, just look at this one done by XSPEED here in Perth.
This is just sick, it's good for drags, it's good for track racing and it's good for every day driving, plus very very reliable.
http://www.xspeed.com.au/imagess/secret/nissan/85/2.jpg
http://www.xspeed.com.au/imagess/sec...652_edited.jpg
By the way my cuz works as car salesman for holden, few days ago he was driving brand new SS LD (it had headers, exhaust carbon air intake and chip, that's what he said), car was nice, very nice muscle sound, but he had a drag with one of my mates i S15 (exhaust, intercooler air intake) and my mate just blow him away from the lights and also when they did rolling start, so much for holden power.
Letc compare the top of the line BMW 5L V10 engine (found in the M5) to that of the LS7 found in the zo6 (and soon to be in the HSV GTS range).Quote:
Holden muscle, it's just funny that some people are even typing LS2 or what ever number so close to the likes of engines that come out from BMW, Audi, Merc ect. It is different league, it's like comparing honda VTEC engines with Hyundai HVT engines.
BMW
5L
V10
500hp
7,750rpm
384 ft lb torque
520Nm @ 6,100rpm
VETTE
7L
V8
505hp
7,000rpm
475 ft lb torque
644Nm @ 4,800rpm
From the specs above I would say that GM's LS7 is a far superior engine to that of the award winning BMW engine. I would also guess that the GM engine would be far more reliable (less technology), cheaper to build and maintain, more fuel effecient and also lighter.
In a turbo car it really depends on the state of tune and also how much boost your running. If you think that all holdens are easy beats then you havent seen the more powerful ones. Look at the holden forum (LS1), look at their quarter mile times and power levels, these engine are highly moddable. Its no wonder that americans love putting the LS engines into jap cars (300zx, mazdas etc).Quote:
By the way my cuz works as car salesman for holden, few days ago he was driving brand new SS LD (it had headers, exhaust carbon air intake and chip, that's what he said), car was nice, very nice muscle sound, but he had a drag with one of my mates i S15 (exhaust, intercooler air intake) and my mate just blow him away from the lights and also when they did rolling start, so much for holden power.
If Americans could make a good car and engine it would be sold all over the world and it would be popular everywhere, but because all they care for is 1/4 mile and big dissplacment they can't take on big power houses like BMW, Merc, Audi, Honda ect on global stage.
The new Vettes are ranked as one of the best cars in the world....why sell something good overseas when you can sell just as many and keep them for yourself....
JUST TO PROVE YOU WRONG............here is the Nurburgring lap times. Near the top is the new 2005 corvette Z06 with an LS engine. Compared with the other cars in the list the vette is an excellent bargain. You also have to remember that the vette when driven sedately can get 28 or more miles per galon, which is excellent for any car especially for a 505hp one. So what was that about American cars/engine not being able to take on the world?Quote:
If Americans could make a good car and engine it would be sold all over the world and it would be popular everywhere, but because all they care for is 1/4 mile and big dissplacment they can't take on big power houses like BMW, Merc, Audi, Honda ect on global stage.
Nurburgring Lap times
6:55 - Radical SR8 – 2005
7:14 - Donkervoort D8 270 RS - 2005
7:15 - Edo Porsche 996 GT2 RS - 2005
7:18 - Donkervoort D8 RS - 2004
7:19 - Radical SR3 1500 Turbo - 2003
7:28 - Porsche Carrera GT - 2004
7:32 - Pagani Zonda F - 2005
7:32 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO - 2001
7:34 - Koenigsegg CCR - 2005
7:40 - Bugatti 16/4 Veyron - 2005
7:40 - Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren - 2004
7:41 - Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp - 2004
7:42 - Ford GT - 2005
7:42 - Mosler MT900S Photon - 2004
7:42 - Radical 1500 SR3 – 2003
7:42.9 - Corvette Z06 - 2005
7:43 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS - 2005
7:43 - TechArt Porsche GT Street - 2002
7:43 - Lamborghini Murcielago – 2002
7:44 - Pagani Zonda C12 S - 2002
7:45 - McLaren F1 – (the lap time is taken from a video available at pistonheads driven by the cars owner, not a proper factory driver).
7:46 - Jaguar XJ220 - 2000
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2 - 2001
7:47 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS - 2004
7:49 - Porsche 996 GT3 Cup - 1999
7:50 - BMW E46 M3 CSL - 2003
7:50 - Westfield Megabusa - 1999
7:52 - BMW M5 (E60) – date of test unkown.
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo – 2003
7:54 - Mercedes CLK DTM AMG - 2005
7:55 - Caterham R500 Superlight - 2000
7:56 - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale - 2004
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo - 2000
7:56 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 C5 – 2003
7:56.- Honda NSX-R - 2002
7:58 - Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI - 2005
7:59 - Chevrolet C6 Z51 –
7:59 - Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R - 1997
7:59.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec C prototype - 2004
8:03 - Aston Martin V8 Vantage - 2005
8:04 - Lamborghini Diablo GT - 2000
8:05 - Ferrari 575M - 2002
8:05 - Ruf CTR -
8:06 - Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG – 2002
8'06.59 - Impreza Sti spec C - 2002
8:07 - Ferrari 550 Maranello - 1998
8:09 - BMW M6 - 2005
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena - 1999
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV - 1997
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS - 1997
8:10 - Donkervoort D8 180R - 2001
8:10.75 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi Version III sedan - 1997
8:11 - Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX - 2005
8:11 - Porsche Cayman S - 2005
8:13 - BMW M5 E60 - 2004
8:13 - Lotus Esprit Sport 350 - 1999
8:13 - Dodge Viper SRT-10 – 2004
8:14 - Mercedes SL 65 AMG - 2005
8:15 - Alpina Roadster S - 2005
8:15 - Corvette C6 - 2005
8:15 - Ruf 911 CTR 2 -
8:16 - AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E36 - 1996
8:16 - AC-Schnitzer V8 Topster
8:16 - Aston Martin DB9 2004
8:17 - Aston Martin V12 Vanquish - 2003
8:18 - BMW Z8 - 2000
8:18 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition - 2003
8:18 - Ferrari F355 - 1996
8:18 - Maserati GranSport - 2004
8:20 - Audi RS6 - 2001
8:20 - BMW M3 E36 -
8:22 - BMW M3 E46 - 2000
8:22 - BMW M Coupe - 1998
8:22 - Mercedes-Benz C55 - 1999
8:22.38 - Nissan Skyline R32 GTR -
8:25 - Corvette Callaway C12 - 1999
8:26 - Nissan 350Z - 2003
8:28 - BMW M5 - 1999
8'28.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX - 1992
8:29 - Audi S4 4.2 Avant - 2003
8:31 - Cadillac STS-V - 2005,
8:32 - Lotus Exige - 2004
8:32 - BMW Z4 3.0 SMG - 2003
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S - 1999
8:32 - Volkswagen Golf R32 -
8:34 - Vauxhall VX220 Turbo - 2004
8:35 - BMW 130i – 2005
8:35 - BMW M3 SMG E36 - 1997
8:35 - Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé - 2002
8:36 - Jaguar XKR Performance Kit - 2000
8:36 - Porsche Boxster - 2003
8:37 - Maserati 3200GT - 2002
8:38 - Renault Megane Sport Trophy - 2005
8:38 - Porsche 996 Carrera -
8:39 - Morgan Aero 8 - 2004
8:40 - Holden GTS - 2000
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic - 1999
8:41 - Aston Martin DB7 - 1999
8:41 - Audi S3 - 1999
8:42 - Audi TT 1.8 quattro - 2000
8:42 - Audi S4 - 1998
8:43 - Honda Integra Type R - 2000
8:47 - Honda Civic Type-R - 2001
8:49 - Renault Clio Sport V6 - 2001
8:51 - Alfa Romeo 156 GTA - 2002
8:51 - Ford Focus ST - 2005
8:54 - VW Golf GTI 25th Anniversary - 2002
8:55 - Mini Cooper S Works - 2004
8:58 - Lotus Esprit Turbo SE - 1997
9:05 - Ford Focus RS - 2005
9:07 - Mercedes SLK 230 - 2001
9:07 - AMG Mercedes SLK 230 - 1999
9:09 - VW Golf V6 4Motion – 2002
9:57.7 – Alfa Romeo 1600 GTA - 1966
The C6 Z06 above ran on street tires..........................
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/1384471d.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
i doubt conditions/driver were same on all occasions... hardly relevant
And once again i say comparing engines is not comparing cars.... GET IT?
I'm sure a nsx with a ls2 in it would be quicker than corvette...
Congrats to GM for producing such a well balanced/ great value car (they've only had 60yrs or so to do it:rolleyes: ...) but to say its engine is 'THE BEST IN THE WORLD'?
To find out what engine would win you would need a control car, and, one by one test each engine in it, in real world conditions, until then no1 will kno...
Ive never stated that it was the bet engine!!!!!!!!! However I disagree with people saying that pushrod and LS engines are garbage. Ive proven several times in my posts that you can extract plenty of power and torque from pushrod engines. I have also stated that these engines are reliable, cheap to produce and maintain, light and fuel effecient.
So far no one has produced any specs of other engines that would challenge this. Im sure that there are better and more powerful engines out there but as a package the LS engines are hard to beat.
My two posts above is a direct reply to Melanic1981's post (#128), which questions americas ability to compete with the world on challenging circuts (non 1/4 mile).
Look at my post above (#127), where I compared the award winning BMW M5 engine to that of the LS7. The power figures for both were/are not at the weels but fly, not only was the ls engine more powerful with more usable torque but is also cheaper than the super exotic M5 engine. Yet because of peoples perception that anything pushrod = ancient and cr@p the LS engine never recieved its bue acolades. Racers, dragers on other high performance guys on the other hand all agree that its a great engine.
jeeez monarocountry
dude your still going on ?? lol
That list doesn't prove anything, I can still see more M3, EVOs, STIs an 911s than any other original american sports car. Same thing is in rest of asia and europe, so globaly USA made su#ks
Think about the location of the track. Many european manufacturers would call it their home, same as holden calling lang lang proving grounds their test track and bowling green (?) for the vettes its test track.
Other american cars that made it into that list include:
7:42 - Ford GT - 2005
7:42 - Mosler MT900S Photon - 2004
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS - 1997
All these cars have a very rich history, far richer than the almost mythical japanese brands. Take for example the ford GT, the original was designed to beat ferraris in europe. This was after Ferrari (in financial troubles) refused Fords offer, which would have made Ferrari a ford brand. The GT did this successfully beating ferrari and all other cars convincingly several years in a row (24hr races).
For one country america have produced many cars, and sportcars. I would say that america has produced far more worthwile supercars than Japan (no I dont regard the GTR, 300zx or supra a supercar; even the NSX is at best a borederline supercar (IMO only)).
Just to give you some examples of american sportcars.
AC Cobra (all)
Panoz Esperante GTLM
Cadillac CTS-V Racer (CTS-V is aimed at BMW)
Cunningham C7
Fisker
Ford Mustangs
Shelby Cobra
Ford Cosworth
Saleen S7 Twin Turbo
SSC Aero SC/8T (this cars extreemly amazing 1234kg and 908bhp/1045Nm designed to beat the F1's speed record of 240mph)
Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZO6
Chevrolet Camaro Z28
Chevrolet Corvette C5-R
Dodge Viper
Dodge Charger SRT-8
Chrysler ME Four-Twelve
These cars are americans, I havent included american subsidaries in europe and asia.
gotta love this thread...
the pushrod design actually has some very worthwhile packaging advantages over the ohc designs in V-configuration motors. there was a picture floating around a while back showing a LT1 v8 next to some ohc mustang motor, the small block looked around 30% smaller. what they may lack in efficiancy, they make up for in compactness. in summary, light weight and high output equals good platform imo.
LOL, what makes these cars supercars are the chassis and CF shell over them. Look at the S7. If you take off the body and chassis, it's a pretty normal engine. Those are nice cars, but they don't seal in the Best Engine winner. Even the Viper. The engine is 1/2 a truck engine block. How can that be the best? I think you cannot determine best based on an overall standing. You have to have categories to define the best, otherwise there will never be an agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
My categories:
Best power output per litre
Best fuel effeciency
Best price
Best drivability
Best size
Best durability
Then it is easier to determine which is the best. And I'd put in the LS series under best fuel effeciency, price and size.
Ok I agree that its very difficult for one engine to have all those categories. However you must also admit that the LS engines are a) efficient b) less costly c) a great price especially when compared with engines of similar power (near unbeatable actually) d) drivability of an engine??? Well torque throughout the rev range = better control e) its very small and light (the LS engines have been put in many different cars i.e. MX5, 300zx, RX7, 240z etc) and f) durable (able to handle major power reliably).Quote:
My categories:
Best power output per litre
Best fuel effeciency
Best price
Best drivability
Best size
Best durability
Again I question the worth of “power output per litre”. A smaller engine would need to work harder and in under a lot more stress than an engine of larger capacity. PROOF? travel at 100kph on a 5.7 or 6.0 v8 and your rev would most likely be just above 1300rpm (basically idling), try doing this on a 1.5L car.
For that reason engine sizes for performance cars have gradually increased. The problem with SOHC and DOHC etc is that its very difficult to increase displacement.
Also do smaller engines = better fuel economy, more reliable, and lower production cost, given the same power output? From all indications I would say NO. Take for example the legendary rotary which is very small- very thirsty and more prone to failures. For a small engine to match a larger engine, they would (usually) need some form of forced induction like turbo or a supercharger; or have a higher state of tune.
As for deriding the viper for its truck engine block…………..that’s really funny. Many performance enthusiasts actually love using truck engine blocks. Those things are usually built to withstand extreme conditions and in most cases withstand greater power increases. Even the 300zxTT has a truck based transmission (from the Nissan Patrol), and is regarded by many as a very sturdy unit.
Yup, I agree the LS series is the best in those categories. I like the LS series because it brings the V8 experience to those who cannot afford to splurge over $100,000 on a car. Of course, for now I don't need V8 because of petrol costs, but next time when I have money to spare, I might pick one up for the experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
Power output per litre is like bragging rights. You could say it is the snobbish factor. Isn't it nice to boast that your engine has over 100hp/litre? :) Just like saying you have a Ferrari just for the brand name.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
If you are comparing 100km/h speeds, then it doesn't matter. At anywhere below 4000rpm, modern engines can survive that and well exceed the lifetime of the chassis it is in (i.e., if you only stay at 4000rpm, your chassis will rust before your engine will fail). But if you are extracting peak power all the time when you drive at 7000rpm, of course it will fail quicker than if you drive around at 5000rpm. It's not a linear relationship.
You can, just that not many car manufacturers have bothered doing a large V8. It's similar to a DOHC V6 setup where you have 4 camshafts and duplicated valvetrain on each bank. BMW has their 4.0L V8, Mercs and Lexus/Toyota too. It's just that the market for cars with these kinds of engines are way up in the affluent range. If I had to pick between a 530i V6 and 540i V8, I'd go for the 530i because I don't need the V8. But for those with money to spare and status to hunt, then they'd go for the 540i. This brings us back to the LS being good because they bring V8 to those who can't afford expensive cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
But yes, pushrods only need 1 camshaft and all valve control is transferred through the use of pushrods. Quite an elegant method of controlling a V8 with mechanical simplicity, I'd say.
You cannot compare a rotary with a 4-stroke piston engine. Totally different concepts. It's like comparing your internal combustion engine to that of a fuel-cell electrical engine. They are both engines but work differently. If you compare a toyota/honda 1.8L Inline-4 to the LS1 5.7L V8, of course the smaller one is going to consume less fuel in normal driving. Of course, if you give full throttle all the time, then they consume more fuel. The B18C7 consumes about 40 L/100km when on Tsukuba. That's more than the LS1 under normal driving conditions. Do you know of anyone who measured the LS1's fuel consumption when on the track? It would be interesting to compare figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
Nope, not deriding the viper. I was just using it as an example that if there was only an overall best V8 category, then engines which are derived using older technolgies have difficulty winning. BTW, the Viper has a V10. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
And transmissions are a different matter. They come from different manufacturers. And from your example, does the 300ZX TT have the low range gears that the Patrol has?
audi RS6, if you never heard one of these track one down and somehow manage to drive it or get a ride
Let me find my spare $200,000 first. I think I left it next to my box of minties. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by muli
Hey ive got a spare 200K...............:):):).Quote:
Let me find my spare $200,000 first. I think I left it next to my box of minties.
At the start of this topic there was no say about costs of the engine, just what is the best 8 cyl engine and LS is not the one for sure
Damn that's nice.... enough for 1/2 an apartment. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
Oh yeah, and another reason why LS1 is not the shit that others think it is. With 200k, you have to decide if it is better to put it into property or buy the car. With an SV8, all you need is to set aside $50k for the car and 150k can go into property. :)
So just what is the best engine in your opinion?Quote:
At the start of this topic there was no say about costs of the engine, just what is the best 8 cyl engine and LS is not the one for sure
200K could already get ya a 2 bedroom apartment with 1 bathroom. Just stay away from inner sydney :). Look I love cars, all different ones, but having a 200k engine is well outside my price range. I would rather put my money on an apartment or even petrol than buying the best super duper fancy high tech engine. At the end of the day I want to actually drive the car, have fun with it and go home to sleep.Quote:
Oh yeah, and another reason why LS1 is not the shit that others think it is. With 200k, you have to decide if it is better to put it into property or buy the car. With an SV8, all you need is to set aside $50k for the car and 150k can go into property.
yeahQuote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
then buy a GTR :D
it'll do all the things rip a LS V8 and eat less petrol than a LS V8
Apples and Oranges;) RB26DETT vs LS1 is a totally different kettle of fish. I know which one I'd choose, more support in Australia, massive aftermarket support and no need for one or two turbo;) I'd still have a GTR in the garage for the weekends :) Also you'd be surprised how much petrol a modded LS1 eats, it's less than factory models;) LS1Edit:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by [[d a n n y]]
LS1 powered cars have topped the 1/4 times even against the mighty RB engine.Quote:
yeah
then buy a GTR
it'll do all the things rip a LS V8 and eat less petrol than a LS V8
I agree with pillow!!!! As with any cars you can greatly lessen fuel consumption with an edit (its not only for power), this applies greatly with your LS1.
There are also several twin turbo options available for the LS1 that would make an already potent motor go ballistic. Even without the use of forced induction an LS1 (NA)is still capable of a 9 sec quarter mile, something an RB26DETT could never achieve.
hm..okay fine..
but how much does a LS1 do on a full tank??
my car with tuned map settings i did a full tank run from sydney to the snowys
but still V8 isnt my style
i love to rev my car to 9K rpm.
:thumbsup: Yup, and to those who say that you can sleep in a car but not drive a house, try applying for a job when your address is "Red Ferrari FER35D, off Elizabeth Street Sydney NSW 2000". :DQuote:
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
It's an Inline 6, not V8. And if it was a GTR, it would use more petrol than a stock LS1!Quote:
Originally Posted by [[d a n n y]]
From reviews, I've seen VYII SS doing about 17L/100km city. Pure highway should be 12L/100km then?
17L/100km is exelent!!!!!
(yeah right)
the LS1 isnt the only engine that gets good power and fuel economy from tuning!
my S15 was running 12s very mild tuning 600ks out of a 60lt tank, 300hp, over 500nm of torque out of a 2lt.
i used to beat my mates boosted vxss.
he claimed to have 500hp before he got CHOPPED.
At what RPM did boost come on in your S15? 600ks from city or freeway? If city, that's good.Quote:
Originally Posted by locote
turbo was boosting from 1000rpm +
full boost by 2500rpm
600ks driving to and from work.
i had a 4lt EL falcon before my S15 and that used 450ks out of a 80lt tank
A 400hp LS2 monaro can get over 500km per full tank.Quote:
17L/100km is exelent!!!!!
(yeah right)
the LS1 isnt the only engine that gets good power and fuel economy from tuning!
my S15 was running 12s very mild tuning 600ks out of a 60lt tank, 300hp, over 500nm of torque out of a 2lt.
i used to beat my mates boosted vxss.
he claimed to have 500hp before he got CHOPPED.
As for beating the SS, your main advantage is weight. Try running him (the SS) with several very large friends stuffed strategically over the car.
LS1's have been known to run deep 6 sec quarter mile, theres even a LS1 in australia running very low 7 secs. Whats the fastest time for an s15 (or even a mighty GTR)? The fastest NA LS1 have even achieved a time of low 9 sec again whats the fastest NA nissan or honda?
Theres plenty of very potent cars (LS1) running around the country. Hell even a lightly moddend (tune, exhaust and cold air) LS1 can achieve that time (high stall to cement it). If I wanted to achieve that time (or even s15) I would have to folk out far far more money on mods. Even getting 300rkw is not an easy task, and mine comes in at 206kw fly stock.
i only spent 4gs on performance mods on S15 to get 300rwhp.
Y would i wanna race with mates in the car?????????????
that is the stupidist thing any one would!
when you got to the track either 1/4 mile or to do laps.
Would you have several large mates in the car????
yeah i thought so!!!!!
car + driver vs car + driver he got eaten as so many other LS1's here in perth that tried to have a go, either of the lights or freeway.
The S15 has way more potential than any commodore!!!!!!
all that my needed for 400rwhp + was a bigger turbo and bigger injectors thats a another 3000.
thats a high 10sec car
[QUOTE=monaroCountry]A 400hp LS2 monaro can get over 500km per full tank.
As for beating the SS, your main advantage is weight. Try running him (the SS) with several very large friends stuffed strategically over the car.
LS1's have been known to run deep 6 sec quarter mile, theres even a LS1 in australia running very low 7 secs. Whats the fastest time for an s15 (or even a mighty GTR)? The fastest NA LS1 have even achieved a time of low 9 sec again whats the fastest NA nissan or honda?
[QUOTE]
A mate of mine's VT SS runs low 12's wth a little over 330hp at the wheels, full interior, everything - and it gets around 12L/100km around town. From the factory Holdens (and most cars) are tuned to run extremely rich. My Adventra does well if it gets 16.5-17L/100km - and it's a stock LS1 pulling a massive 2 tonnes and is AWD.
And on a side note - the fastest N/A LS1 in AUstralia runs 9s AND is engineered and street legal. I'd like to see a GTR, S15, Supra, Honda anything do that.;)
This thread is really going nowhere lol as it has just become a V8 bashing thread as it alway would have on a HONDA forum lol. Do people hate V8's like the LS1 because for the same money they spent on their Civic or Integra they could have had a low 12 or high 11 sec SS or similar, without boost? I know it;s the reason I'll go to a V8 lol. Oh and by the way, no offence to Civic and Interga owners, I drive a Civic and have spent shitloads on it:)
Let's all stop from talking about the modded versions of the engines. And instead concentrate on stock V8s from manufacturers.