lol. we've definetely gathered the fact that xooms isn't stock. hence his claims of an itr and s2k scalp.
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lol. we've definetely gathered the fact that xooms isn't stock. hence his claims of an itr and s2k scalp.
No worries MR-VTEC. I mean no offense to anyone just trying to get some education into people to open up their options and not be so narrow about these things.
Hey i might run into 1 of you guys at a lights and u might b a better drive and pip me out or it might be vica versa.
But its all good. As long as your not a sore looser about it. Nothing worse than those abusive drive by's ive recieved after beating some1 fair and square.
Oh, and about changing gears in the Sportivo and landing outside of the powerband.
This is where Driver Skill comes into play.
If you're a good enough driver and can quick shift quick enough, i mean quick enough! You can change at 8,200 rpm and land well about 6,000 rpm (where LIFT comes in) We've got video evidence of ppl doing the above from 1st gear to 2nd gera to 3rd gear.
That's why quite a few sportivo's lose, because the drivers can't change gears for crap! hahaha. But, once in the power band, wow! Do they move!
Had 2 runs with a WRX. he had a full car (driver+ 4 passengers) and i had myself and 2 passengers. Lights went green and being 4wd jumped straight infront of me. was a car length in front and from then to 200KM/HR he NEVER pulled away, but i didn't pull him in either. so i pretty much stayed with him!
yeah i know how some people can be so narrow minded. PRIDE.
yeah we might soon hear about a traffic light showdown between you and someone else on here. i'm sure they're all lining up as we speak.lol
yep i know what ya mean there are some real dics out there that can't handle a beatin. specially the kind with a couple of more cylinders than us.lol.
just a question Sportivo VVTL-i how can you seriously tell me you stuck with a wrx a 4wd turbo. the power higher up in the speed stakes would kill a 2 litre na car im sure. please someone correct me if im wrong. must be one of these crap drivers again or he must've had his air-con on full ball.lol.
:oops: :oops: :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
Heheh sorry!!
oh yeah and his turbo must've been broken. lol.
Oooo I have a question! Have you's taken on any skylines before?
MR-VTEC: wish i had a camera! me and my mates were like :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
pulled up next to him and said, "this is stock" and he said "so is this" then is said " this is 1.8 L N/A..and that's a 2L turbo" hehehe..he wound his window up and wanted to race again. well, guess what, same result.
most cars get in front of the sportivo, coz it requires skill to launch it properly, it either wheel spins or bogs. but the sportivo loves to play catch up.
I don't know how i kept up, i just did. One of your VTEC comrades on this forum was a passenger in my sportivo. he will definately tell you.
oh and had a honda accord Euro luxury with me too. was behind me racing a commodore. hahaha.... 4 car drag to 200km. awesome! :o
skylines...no. they'd rip us to shreds, wouldn't they? when i say we, i'm talking about both honda's and toyota's.
besides the fast ones of our makes of course =)
MR-VTEC: u from sydney? did u go to the ozhonda meet last friday? it was at auburn maccas. i was there with the stivo. =)
:shock: :shock: :shock: fair enough. i don't want to argue wit you. congrats on your victory. ;)
I have taken on an R33 gts-t
It wasnt a clean run though. If any of you know the lane cove area you'll know what im taking about.
I was going down lady game drive towards Lane cove road. I was at the round abouts where it open up to 2 lanes and back into 1 again. He was on my ass the whole way and he tries to pass me but i took notice of this and had already prepare.
Shifted 2nd and bang put the power to the ground went around the round about and we were side by side. 2 bad his land ends so he was going to slam into me but i slam on the horn n he waves and backs off. Ok yes he was on the outside lane and so he had to cover more ground but i still didnt let him in. That was all i wanted to achieve.
Anyway go to the lights at lane cove rd and they were green so i turn the corner and just put the foot down. All i hear from behind me is an all mighty roar and head lights going left - right - left - right but i was 2 busy concentrating infront of me.
I was ahead all the way down to the bridge by then was moving really fast end of 4th which is when i chose to back off and he flew past me and kept putting the foot down i reckon easy he took it over 200.
Ok no 1 take this out of context. I take one off the lights, i didnt say i can beat 1 any day of the week, etc etc etc. All i said is i held him out to prove a point of who cares if you have a skyline
MR-VTEC: it wasn't a victory. it was more of.."can i keep up with it".
i know a wrx will beat me, but i also know that i can keep up with it, 1-2 car lengths behind (coz i can't launch properly). Once in LIFT of course.
Sportivo VVTL-i nah sorry bro im from queensland,
200km/hr on public roads? Um, what happens if some idiot walks out onto the street without first looking for traffic? (as people always do in Sydney).
You guys really should keep it to the track! That's where the fun is really to be had. The long straight on Eastern Creek is almost 1km long and gives you plenty of time to see who's the fastest :)
Here's a photo of me overtaking 2 porsches and a 911. :)
http://www.australianinfront.com.au/...ing_m3_911.jpg
And in the lead of-course :)
http://www.australianinfront.com.au/...ay2/pro_03.jpg
And I have had countless people try to race me off the lights in my GT-R. Anything from other turbo owners to Honda Civics. I rev up, look at them and grin then let them beat me every time. Why? Cause it's just not worth it! I get the last laugh. I like it that way! :)
whats your best lap time around there?
far out guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by MR-VTEC
Can we not have an aggressive argument FOR ONCE?!
McChook, can you try hard not piss someone off on the forums?
I don't know about you guys, but the two corolla guys came in here in a non aggressive manner to join the discussion on their cars, they are just speaking about their experiences...
I know this is a honda forum and all, but Honda's are not bulletproof, and the fact is, there WILL be plenty of faster cars out there. (a general comment, not directed at corollas specifically)
They are only talking about their experiences, and as I said many times before, street drags mean very little due to the large variances in tune and driver ability!
MR VTEC, what makes you think a highly strung FWD 2L NA car can't keep up with a WRX? you *know* it won't or you just *think* it wont?
Faster acceleration is ultimately about power.... a lightweight 2L FWD NA car with about 150kw at the fly should have no problems keeping up with (or even beating) a Stock WRX.
Don't forget that the WRX isn't all that fast when it gets moving, they are only fast at launch cos of their 4WD system and ability to grip with high RPM clutch dumping.
In addition, the 4WD drivetrain has a lot of power loss associated. Its possible that the corolla might even be putting more power to the ground... I'm talking about a stock WRX tho.
so.... before this discussion gets messy can we all kiss and make up?? :)
:P
Nice photos!!Quote:
Originally Posted by justinfox
I love your website too!
200km/h?! you didn't happen to get pulled over on the M5 last night did ya?!
haha
far out man. I REALLY hope that you don't kill yourself or worse still kill someone else one day.
and I sure hope I'm no where near you when you pull those crazy stunts like that. I've been in far too many near misses cos drivers/bike riders think they have big balls.
take it to the track, its safer.
I've actually sent an email to the people at the creek to get some details about track time. As yeah i recognise doing this on the roads is dangerous and very stupid but we all get the hype every now and then and i dont think any1 can deny that.
kit maybe you should read all my posts under this topic before you go accusing me of arguing!
and as for my stint about the wrx i let that go!
read first before you go accusing me!
Its cool... the wrx comment was directed at you, the other comment about this getting aggressive wasnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by MR-VTEC
I can just see this getting very messy.
:)
ok no probs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
i'll pay that............
if u wanna beat a corolla sportivo
just take one on on the tracks
im pretty sure the ek4 can easily outcorner the sportivo
i was choosing to get a sportivo or an ek4 last year
now my mind is made up
just have 2 find one now.....
2nd hand ek4 anyone?
you might find yourself mistaken there.Quote:
Originally Posted by gelo
a good friend of mine was lapping his (stock) corolla levin -yes the 100kw version- station wagon consistanly as quick as his previous (stock) civic vti-r hatch. despite the civic being quicker on the straights.
i can only assume that he'd be quicker again in a sportivo...
you were?...........huh..........what colour car?...............Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
what type of skylines we talkin bout cause stock rexies eat stock 33 and 32 GTSTs. so if the rolla will stay with a wrx it will prolly be right next to the skyline. it all goes down to driver skill though cause i have been in a sotck liberty RS turbo (pretty much older model rex) that has eaten a rolla and yes he was goin as he chirped it off the line.
Cool! So if I chirped it off the line, you would think I'm driving the car hard? lollllllllllllllllllQuote:
Originally Posted by Civ_97
I've always wanted to run the EK Vtir's as well as the Sportivo's. You guys wanna make it a 3 way :D
threesome's are good!! :dance:
Sportivo's are slow. a vtir will prolly be >= to it everytime. the corrolla's powerband is thin as a bee's dick and they are heavy as donky balls.
" u are fat....smelly...shit...ghay....shit and fat"
ROFL... I'd love to see a modded Prelude VTiR w/ Mugen zorst, Type Sssss Cams and "a few other little things" run a stock Corolla Sportivo. WOnder to the outcome... :roll:
Xoom and 1.8L , gutsy of you guys to come onto a Honda forum and argue like you have. Good to see some healthy inter-make discussion, and that you guys aren't being tools. :thumbsup:
*i agree*
hey toyota dudes! which forums are u guys from, i own a ekvtir myself, which is similar in performance to a sportivo, go the lil n/a cars ;)
however hondas got massive aftermarket support, would be interesting to c where u guys go to get more power outta ur similar cars
I can remove everything and go back to stock if required...Quote:
Originally Posted by joneblaze
8============D - Jon
8=======D - McFluff...I mean McChook :P :D
Which one's bigger?
WTF? I wasn't comparing anything of mine.... the topic is "Sportivo".... you freak. Go back to standing in engine bays... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mo
Either way, yours IS bigger than mine....Quote:
Originally Posted by joneblaze
Hell, I have to spend MONEY to try and make sure you never get near me again....
I've read a few reviews of the sportivo and most say it's pretty slow. In a wheels mag. they compared it against clio sport, astra turbo and focus st170. As i remeber on the dyno the corolla had practically the same power as the focus and clio. Alot of other reviews gives 0-100 times in the high 8's. You would think most of the time a vti-r would beat the sportivo.
man you cant use a review to analyze how two cars will go against each other. have you read the rest of this thread.
Yeah i've read this thread but i'm saying the reviews from mags such as wheels and newspapers are from people who have driven more k's than most ppl here. I reckon their comments count alot more than someone draggin someone at the lights. There's my 2 cents.
Hahaha, seriously you cannot put the Corolla Sportivo against the DC5R like some have stated in this thread. All you need to do is take the 2 cars to the track, then all will be revealed. Remember motorposrt (in its true form) is not in a straight line ;)
joneblaze: Thanx for the comments ;)
We didn't join to argue and start negative vibes. I just wanted to clarify and try and get some credit for the sportivo. It's just so under-estimated.
Weq: tell that to a vti-r owner who has an exhaust, k&N, hanny's treatment, 8mm ignition leads, iridium sparks and so forth...who i can beat easily in my stock sportivo. *cough* tunnel vision *cough*
MKI4EVA: black.
Civ_97: might try a stock skyline then, aye? :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
that maybe, but the sportivo has a 144kw vvtl-i engine
will limited adjustments 2 suspension and same chassis
im wondering if the sportivo can handle the corners carrying the extra power without under-ing
thers no doubt the sportivo will own the straights
but real men tackle the corners! ( best motoring =P)
ROFL :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gelo
best grasping at staws argument ever chum ;)
cheers, i needed a good laugh...
by the way, never heard of a car getting slower lap times as a result of gaining 40-odd kw :)
anyone in melbourne with a sportivo care to meet up with someone off the forums at caulder to prov its power?
Ehehe fair enough.. Id like to see them lined up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
id say drivers would be the deciding factor, but 0-100times similiar!
off-topic:
not having a go at u, but dont quote 'hannys' as a performance modification - 'he' dosnt work on performance cars. 8mm leaders/plugs/ignition stuff dont do anything to a car also.
Hannys Performance do performance mods y0! They have seat covers!! HAHAHAHA
WRONGQuote:
Originally Posted by gelo
The corolla is a tall, unaerodynamic tub of lard.
So it might own a Civic CXi, but not a VTiR
[quote="McChook
WRONG
The corolla is a tall, unaerodynamic tub of lard.
So it might own a Civic CXi, but not a VTiR[/quote]
Got some drag coefficient comparisons to back that up?
He probably doesn't...Like most other comments made by anyone on these forums lol.
That is off the Australian toyota website - but it refers to the base model corolla....not the sportivoQuote:
Originally Posted by toyota
I always thought that the difference between base the sportivo is of the kit (I mean looks wise) and bigger wheels ?? Would the kit that comes on the sportivo give it even better aerodynamics?
If anything it would hinder the drag coeficient.
of the two civic vtir's in my area.
One is owned by a guy who is a sales rep for a toyota dealer. As such i met up with him and did some minor test. When i was stock each time with me driving his car or him driving mine the corolla just before hitting lift was slighly in front. Upon entering lift it surges ahead and once in second its all over there is no way the civic is going to catch up.
How serious is this guy on his cars. Let just say he went out of his way to buy the engine of the new type-r, full performance computer, and various other bits and pieces and is about to get some serious boost from his purchases out of his little civic. Man thats going to fly.
The other i believe is a CXi or what ever else models they come out in and is badged and done up as a vti-r as i've run this guy at least 10 times over the last 5 months as he only lives around the block from me and ive absolutly blasted him. When u chirp 1st and 2nd and do a drive by after i've just ripped you and ive completly backed off by that stage that to me says he's running me.
My conclusion is the civic vtir is a great little 4 banger and in the right hands can perform well, but i have yet to loose to one. Maybe they are all shit driver. But oh well ive got my victories as u might say with other sportivo's u've ran.
Heheh chirping means nothing...I can't drive for shit and sometimes chirp off the line for no reason! hahaha...but yes I agree...most people that do chirp are actually want to run!!
Drag coefficient of 0.30Cd
according to carpoint
Quote:
Originally Posted by McChook
Is that why your car is so slow too ?
MrChook: i would love to get some video evidence of me beating a vti-r (both cars stock) again..and again..and again... :x :x :x
and would LOVE to see the reaction on your face. :shock: :shock: :shock:
i know it would definately be hard to swallow, especially for you.
Let's say you do the same mods to the VTi-R as you would on the Sportivo. Making it fair, then let's see how it goes again there.
btw, there are heaps of aftermarket parts out there for the b16. unfortunately, due to being recent the 2zz-ge doesn't have much aftermarket stuff. imagine how it would be if it had the same aftermarket range as the b16. Ouch! That's gotta be another one....
Thanx 4 all the honda owners out there who are actually open minded and are willing to acknowledge there are other cars out there. :thumbsup:
Is it possible to put up times from both cars, not manufacture but these guys who are posting and another guy with an EK4 and put this to rest? We better choose a good driver to rest the fate of this argument :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR-VTEC
Well i am going to use stats. I think it'd be interesting to test them out on track. Sooo interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by gatecrasher
Check this : Motor BFYB 2003. Tests conducted at Wakefield Park. Times listed are those ONLY of Rick Bates.
180Nm Corolla Sportivo 8.7kg/kW 0-100 = 8.21 0-400=16.0 Lap=1:16.75
196Nm Focus ST170......9.5kg/kW 0-100 = 8.32 0-400=16.2 Lap=1:15.78
200Nm Clio Sport..........8.3kg/kW 0-100 = 7.76 0-400=15.54 Lap=1:14.27
Now, IMHO, (with same driver) a DC2R will be faster than the above. As a whole package (chassis, brakes, LSD, seats etc) it is superb on the track.
But for a 150Nm EK Vti-R with a 9.3kg/kW ratio VS Sportivo Corolla, me thinks it'd be quite interesting :) .......arrghh who cares, let's just hit the track anywayz fellas !!! :nod:
It's good to hear from a couple of guys with the Sportivo. I looked at getting one of those late last year, and as far as value for money goes, I don't think you can go past it as it comes with basically everything you could want....leather, climate control, 6speed 2ZZ all in a pretty decent looking package at $30k! Only thing is, it needs a pretty decent lowering IMO.
Can't remember why I didn't buy one in the end?
All this arguing about the motors is pretty funny actually. I remember that the topic was touched on in the "Why vtec is so much better than VVTi" thread. (It should be VVTLi actually) and I remember TODA AU saying how the 2ZZ is quite similar to the F20C and that it responds amazingly well to the Power FC.
Look, at the end of the day, everyone is really debating about a comparison between apples and oranges. The B-series Honda engines are a generation behind the 2ZZ...I mean the B16 came out in things like gen 2 CR-Xs (late 80s-early 90s) - back when Toyota was still pushing the 4A-GE. A more realistic competitior for the B16 would be the 4A-GE 20valve (if it was in an AUDM car of course)
Don't get me wrong, the B16s are a bloody fantastic engine and obviously stood the test of time, but I think it's pretty fair to say the 2ZZ (in Sportivo guise) offers some major bang for some pretty reasonable dollars and from what TODA AU says, it has some pretty amazing potential too.
I can love and respect all types of cars and as far as reliability and quality goes, there isn't much out there that beats Honda and Toyota.
J
Ok Guys before you read on or open the links below please be open minded as im only publishing the facts and figures.
For those who are purely after facts and only believe wats on paper here are 2 documents you will find interesting
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~cpet...rtivo-test.pdf
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~cpet...tivo-test2.jpg
Both of the tests are the sportivo against the 2.0L type-r civic AND NOT any of the civic's we get in Australia. The one with the DC5R engine i believe as its specs are almost the same as the DC5R engine: 147kw & torque is a bit more. By the way they are using the other metric system for torque i.e. 145 * 1.353 = 196 NM a bit more torque ! Also shown as 196NM in the jpg.
I have taken two quotes out of the pdf if you dont wish to read through it all.
we managed an impressive 0-62mph time of just 7.8 seconds. This is all the more amazing as Toyota claims 8.4 seconds and our test was hampered by a wet track. In the dry the Corolla would be quicker still.
The saturated test track was no place to find out how fast the Honda could get off the line. It simply couldn’t put its power down in the wet. A best 0-62mph time of 8.3 is a long way short of what this car can achieve in the dry. Honda claims 0-62mph in 6.8 seconds
From these quotes it might indicate why the second tests times are so quick for the civic as it probably was done in the dry and they were able to get the power to the tarmac.
Now you might say well the sportivo only gained 0.1 seconds but if you read the pdf they disabled the traction control to get the 7.8 in the wet. In Aus we dont get traction control so who knows maybe the JPG's test was done with the traction control on and it was dry ? Does that prove anything ? Maybe. Driver maybe who knows ? Again keep an open mind.
What does this all prove ? I think the Aussie testers for the magazines have no idea what they are doing if they are like 0.5 second out and potentially even more as we have a test performed by a HSV test driver who recorded a 6.9 0-100. Ok the stivo wasnt stock just CAI & extractors but still that a lot of a gain from 8.4 ??? Hmmm gets you thinking doesnt it.
For all the pencil pushing calculator punching junkies take an analysis at the following
Civic Weight 1105kg - 97 vtir according to redbook
9.36 kg per KW
7.47 kg per NM
Sportivo weight 1224kg - 2003 according to redbook
8.68 kg per KW
6.80 kg per NM
Now we have weighed the s'tivo on a weighing bridge
and it only achieve 1180 kg with a full load as ive
indicated before. At that figure it achieves
8.37 kg per KW
6.56 kg per NM
Integra type-r 1160kg - 2004 according to redbook
7.89 kg per KW
6.04 kg per NM
Interesting !!!!!!
Very!! But I don't like facts and figures!! I like times :P
It's just a toyota.
cannot compare with Honda..."the power of dreams"
hehe....but yeah, sportivos are harder to drive quick. but if you can keep the rev within "THE ZONE" yeah, your car should be quick once it gets going....
so it's really depends on the driver's ability to extract every bit of performance out of the car.
what I'm saying is that Xoom is a better driver than the DC5R driver that he have beaten. if they swap cars I'm sure Xoom who drive's the DC5R will be faster than that driver again.
stuff all this talk guys..........lets go and find out...........its quiet on tues nights..............hehhehe.
friendly gtg........
so which one of the bigg honda talkers are in?..........
This in all in sydney isnt it? :(
I'll come........... to watch........ if someone gives me a lift...... :D
I think the EK4 (95-98) was actually 1131kg, and it was the EM1 coupe VTiR that was slightly lighter (at 1105kg).
my ek4 is 1105 kg on the RTA rego thingo!
damn.. hehe i'd love to test sportivo vs ek4.. but im a shit driver :(
i wanna see sportivo vs white gsi.
Same!!! http://members.iinet.net.au/~ehor/smileys/hyper.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
sorry to drag you into this jon. we all know you love it :D
yes thats where the partys at!!............i've ran both and both pulled on me in similar style.......Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
i give it to the sportivo though..........only cuz i wanna piss john off.......hehhehe :D (jk'n mate)
Gsi imortality!! Take IT JOHN its YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!...........ROFL
Hahaha *awaits jon*
his clutch is dying.. heheheh so gotta wait for a while :P
excuses excuses :D
And after I lose i suppose only THEN it gets to face the mighty Grey? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
Leave me alone la...
AHAHAHAHA....i've seen that TWICE now... :x My gf loves it. Fukin Brad Pitt...Quote:
Originally Posted by MKI4EVA
BTW ... its joN....JON...JON!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:
Yes, I'm driving like a grandma atm, making it last... ETA is 3-4 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by luzinit