Nice review. that new gearing looks sweet. i wish my CL9 was geared like that. Pity about the header being built in though. Im guessing its a good job though.
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Nice review. that new gearing looks sweet. i wish my CL9 was geared like that. Pity about the header being built in though. Im guessing its a good job though.
I can't even tell the change in engine sound on my CL9. hhehehe. I'll post up dyno vids later and you try to listen for when it passes 6000rpm. Broken vtec ftw!Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro76
Will do.Quote:
Originally Posted by andyhui01
I do with new cars. I swap between 4th, 5th, and 6th.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Euro/Front.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...ront-Right.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...CU2-Euro-1.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rear-Right.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...0Euro/Rear.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Front-Left.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Front-Side.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Rear-Lines.jpg
Try to guess when is vtec. I can't tell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q19wN4fWFqsQuote:
Originally Posted by Euro76
Bad recording?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Thanks for the exterior shots! Have to say, looks hot in that colour :D. But isn't it called Volcano Grey? Or do they call it Volcanic Ash over west side?
The stock grill looks quite nice, especially in person. I'm glad we didn't end up with the Acura one, and it also looks better than the sport grill, in my opinion anyway.
Lets see what Mugen come up with!
Sony Digital8 video camera. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAwNeX
Even when I am driving, I can't hear a change in engine note as I pass 6000rpm.
What about in this vid? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ql6e9K1X9k
Haha, just checked the brochure and yes, Volcano Grey.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimnkk
All the dealers over here seem to call it volcanic ash! I must change it...
Grill is fine. Yes to mugen!!!
I can feel the VTEC change over but I've not really paid much attention at what revs this happens. In terms of the engine note, I can only hear it revving at a faster rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
VTec crossover on CU2 is supposed to be 5300RPM.Type R Positive is this so?
The CU2 Euro is definitely wider than CL9, that means more shoulder room. I like it, giving sporty appearance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
I can hear VTEC kicks in slowly maybe you press gas pedal deeper in slow way?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Great review!
I happened to test the manual new euro this morning. What a cracking drive! Very impressed. I especially loved the gearbox - the shifter is in a nicer position and it is such a sweet sweet gear change.
The engine also feels completely different. It revs so much more freely it has to be seen to be believed how different it is - it just spins and spins through the rev range FAST. I wonder whether they have lightened the flywheel in addition to the shorter gear ratios.
Power is actually pretty good (a compliment considering my last car was a 6litre v8) - the car moves along very nicely indeed. I can see how some people would say the new model is faster because it revs so much more freely and the accelerator is more responsive to input. HOWEVER - looking at the speedo carefully I am not convinced it accelerates faster. Very similar to the old model actually - maybe slower. The short gear ratios confused my sense of pace. It is probably like the new Civic type R - people test drive one and think it is a rocket because it revs so easily - but put it against the clock and it is 0-100 in 7.5 seconds.
The car is quieter and more compliant over bumps and pot holes. Great improvement in ride and cabin noise.
The HUGE leap forward is in the steering feel and the handling. This new euro changes direction and corners similar to a CL9 with coilovers and sway bars. It is flatter around corners and just loves to change direction. Stock for stock there is no comparison between the old and new in the handling department. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Overall Honda is on to a real winner here. Value for money is outstanding and I really enjoyed how the new model drives. The manual is a real drivers car. If it had 30kw more power it would be outstanding. Notwithstanding that, would I consider buying one? Hell yeah, this is a great car.
Although you did not hear a change in engine note but I can hear that the engine rev quite faster than normal on high rpm. I think that's when VTEC kicks.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I have not test drive the new CU2 Euro, however I am very sure that CL9 chassis could handle more power, for at least another 20kw or more. Take a look at JDM Euro R, their power figure is 160kw I believe? It's 20kw more than Aus spec Euro. CU2 however should be able to handle more power, 148kw sounds not quite difference than CL9 although I agreed you said extra 30kw will be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
forgot to mention that the floor mats in the euro are soooo ugly ! They have these wavy lines on them that look very 80s......
Looking at the accessory brochure i see that there are some "packs" available (pricing not set yet):
Sports Pack: Sports grille, aero bumper front and rear, skirts, spoiler, 10 spoke alloys
Elegance Pack: inerior panel 9 piece set, shift knob, sports steering wheel, door garnish...
I am sure the aero bumpers are going to be pricey as they are a complete bumper replacement.
It was taken on a dyno using full throttle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro76
Great write up mate :thumbsup:
I had the oportunity to take a standard CU2 Auto for an extensive test drive and came away very impressed, a great all round package. I do not agree with some road test reports about the vauge steering, i found it to be very well wieghted. Honda has a winner on its hands.
I'm not sure how much they are here, but apparently in the states, for the bumpers and skirts alone, it's US$3000. Knowing how much we get rorted here, i'm guessing the front, rear and skirt replacements will set us back at least $4k. They would be good down the track when you can probably get them thrown in for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
yeah i expect there would be a sports model eventually with all of that included. Shame it is not available now.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimnkk
The higher compression ratio helps (10.5 increased to 11.0).Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
I honestly don't know. Seems to me that it really takes off at around 4k rpms. I will have to try to take more notice. I feel this car has the most grunt around 4k - 6.5k rpms.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
I'm trying to find a tsx dyno but can't find any?
nice write up, but all things need run in, and your already vtecing it?!...
I heard a lil' bit at 6,750rpm (1min 22sec into the video)Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Nice comments Yfin. :thumbsup:
I am glad someone else likes it and just not me. I guess lots of people bag it because they got CL9 and won't upgrade. The Yanks are REALLY bagging the crap out of it... The biggest thing that pisses me off about this car is that one yank (I think it was Edmond's) slags it, so the whole media follows... I just read the Wheels review of the european CU2, and they only had positive things to say. I still haven't seen any 'professional' heads up reviews of CL9 vs CU2, only regurgitated crap.
The handling is out of this world. I still can't believe it. I said it before, THIS IS A DRIVERS CAR!!!!! I don't know how or why everyone is complaining about the steering. Grip is sooo much better. The VSA would kick in all the time in my CL9, cutting power when ever I booted it in 1st or 2nd. Not in the CU2. I haven't really given it a hard time yet in 1st though. I only got VSA kick in flogging it around a 90* corner at 60km/h in 2nd. So far, no matter what I do, the car just sits flat!!! The tyres are the limiting factor, but it amazes me so much how well it works with these 'comfort' tyres.
I had the feeling that it revs easy, but I don't know about the flywheel weight. The reason I say this is because when you back off, there is a definate lack of engine braking. Either Honda has given the fuel map some over-run for smoothness, or the flywheel is heavier then what is thought. I think the extra torque is the biggest factor though. Because it is so smooth (tried to replicate the head banging CL9), I thought it could actually benefit from a lightened flywheel. Anyways, I will just have to wait till more info on the matter comes to hand.
Honda has worked so very hard on this car. They have given us a car that just works so well. I know im very happy with it. I still kick myself when I think about the price of this car. My base CU2 has some better features than my $80k VX Prado! You definately get a whole lot of car for very little money.
Motors are already run in.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzen
My car has done about 700kms now, BTW....
I am very interested in the elegance pack. I think it would spice up the interior just that bit more. The silver trim that I paid heaps for in the CL9 comes stock now in the CU2. I am going to ask my dealers it I can get it at cost price. I don't need/want the steering wheel though. They still owe me a boot liner too.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Sports pack would cost some big bucks I'd imagine. I'm going to wait for some other kits to come out like Mugen's. This car has got some great potential.
The floor mats were very nice in the CL9, I still have them sitting around in my shed somewhere. The CU2 mats are good, I think the colour is to break up the (very) black interior. I am waiting for a dash mat too, I think the interior would be that much nicer with one.
The stock CU2 gear knob sucks! Haha, need to get another one for sure.
Ahh I see :)Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Could not agree more. When I bought CL9 I've asked the salesperson to throw genuine Honda Accord Euro mat with Accord Euro written on it. He gave one and I can tell this mat is absolutely high in quality and it's made in Japan. I'm happy with it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
As for the gear knob, the standard CL9 gear knob is leather covered. I don't think it's available on standard CU2.
Hey Type R +ve, please dont forget to post some shots of the different displays for the trip computer functions. Thx.
Nice review. I was interested to hear how the increased weight vs increased engine power would measure out.
How is the build quality (I think the new Euro is no longer built in Japan), especially the interior?
Lastly, what happens if you 'don't' run the gearbox in properly?
Still built in Japan.
Any chance that front strut brace would fit on the old CL9?
unlikely to fit - just get the cusco oneQuote:
Originally Posted by ShAwNeX
How about the normal Accord? That is the Inspire... Is it built in Japan too? Or Thailand... Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
ThailandQuote:
Originally Posted by skyflyer
The following Russian video of the new Accord CU2 shows that they get remote control of the windows and moonroof for both opening and closing! (It's right at the end of the clip.) My local H Dealer told me the new model didn't do this party trick anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4sTGZGkvys&NR=1
Russia must be a hugely important market for Honda.
Inspire is built in Japan. Accord is built in Thailand. US Accord (exact same as our Thai Accord) is built in USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyflyer
145 Million Vs 20 MillionQuote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
So true, Australia is like a drop of piss in a urinal full of pee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
I will, but i'm on night shift untill wed morning. I have pics at home that I have to resize and throw on photobucket. I will see how I go if im not too tired tomorrow morning. I usually crash out straight away.Quote:
Originally Posted by centurionau
Build quality is still top notch. Interior just seems a bit weird because the dash is a bit busy, if you know what I mean. I had a real good look over mine and I am more than happy. I think I liked the material they used for the seats in the base CL9 better than this CU2. The CU2 has like a suede effect. The quality of the material is awesome though. It is hard to get a photo of it though, something you have to see in person.Quote:
Originally Posted by tanalasta
The CU2 hides its weight well, after all, it is just like 1 or 2 passengers in your CL9. Shorter gearing and more torque help.
damn extra 100kg heavier than CL9
The 100kg and bigger tires is going to hurt the acceleraction... but its still looks very good
All Yanky reports say that it's still faster than CL9.....Quote:
Originally Posted by tron07
Look at the dyno comparing the CU2 with the 210hp 06 TSX. Big gains everywhere below 6000rpm.
Link to such dyno?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I couldn't find either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
BUT.... I have seen one before on youtube. I just can't find it.
Here is the link. There are dyno charts and a vid.
http://vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=755732
Thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyouQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou :p
For people who are lazy to click, see how much of an improvement the CU2 engine is over the 06 TSX. And the 06 TSX is the 152kW (SAE), 157kW (estimated) engine with the larger valve ports, throttle body, high flow cat, high flow exhaust. Not the weak 140kW AUDM engine.
http://sohc.vtec.net/article_files/7...s06TSX_6MT.gif
It would seem the new Euro vtec kicks in at 5000rpm but not as aggresive.
more linear power.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLL|z0r
When advanced vtec is introduced, there won't be any kick at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLL|z0r
Type R Positive, could you take a close up pic of the sensor in the right side of this pic? It's the sensor next to the airbox. I want to see if that is the intake temperature sensor or an AFM.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...Engine-Bay.jpg
why is the power in Horse Power? not KW. Is it just typo error?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
American dyno. It is in HP. You cannot compare this dyno to our local dynos. But you can sort of compare the 09 to the 06 since they were run on the same dyno (but different days)Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty
Hi centurionau, I have some pics from my trip computer for euro CL9. Sorry they a a little bit fuzzyQuote:
Originally Posted by centurionau
i think he meant for his CU2Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
I would not think there would be too much difference between the two. Atleast it gives him an idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crapdaz
Thx very much for those pics Unity. It will be interesting to see if they are the same for the CU2
Good improvements..... better torque thru the range....
Type R Positive.....CONGRATS on your purchase, nice review on your first impressions, would be great of you to give another review at the 5,000 and 10,000klm mark...
I heard a rattle near the instrument cluster area and not too mention the front passenger seat belt still hitting the side, shame...Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
LOL, I would of looked aswell......;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Very true.......smaller than CL9Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
Totally new, don't think so, just slightly modified i.e wider track (this helps bad tramlining previous models suffered)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumped
Motor looks like it might be slightly further back than CL9, not 100% sure though
I drove the AUTO today big disappointment compared to CL9, less power....I have to try the manual.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Can't feel it at the moment anyways.....Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
My thoughts taken from another thread :
Quote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
OK, will do.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Yes! At last someone other than me acknowledging the bad tramlining! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
The CU2 is also helped in reducing tramlining by its large diameter tyres; particularly the Luxury model's 235/45R18 tyres which have a greater diameter than the Standard model's 225/50R17 tyres. The contact patch of a wide tyre tends to be broader than it is long but this effect is reduced by increasing the diameter of the tyre. The surface of a broad tyre is more likely to be deflected sideways when it encounters a bit of road with a varying coefficient of friction which happens when there is a ridge on the road or when the tyre partially hits a painted line on the road or when coming off the road onto a gravel/dirt verge. A tire of larger diameter tends to have a longer contact patch and is inherently less likely to be deflected sideways.
Straight sidewall tyres have a wider contact patch than rounded sidewall tyres of the same size.
Reducing tyre pressure can help to reduce tramlining because it elongates the tyre's contact patch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crapdaz
Actually looks very similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
I believe that tramlining is because of the suspension setup. Not enough castor and almost zero toe at the front makes the car follow any groove on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Agreed........Would wider track help for tramiling issue aswell aaronng ?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
My car doesn't tramline with 205/55R16 tyres on the stock 55mm offset 16" rims but it does with the 225/45R17 tyres on the ten spoke 17" Honda Luxury rims that also have 55mm offset.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I had previously argued that there must be a difference in the suspension geometry of the CL9 Luxury model with 17" rims compared to the CL9 Standard with the 16" rims. Both have the same rim offset but Honda dealers aren't supposed to sell the 17" wheels to people with the Standard model. The difference might be more positive castor as toe is the same. But is it so?
What's causing the problem on my car when I swap between the 205/55R16 tyres and 16" rims and the 225/45R17 and 17" rims? The offset is the same. I have not changed the castor or the toe or any of the other suspension geometries when I do the swap. The tyre diameters are virtually the same but the only difference is essentially the tyre width and therefore the width of the contact patch.
I remember studying coefficients of friction in my 1st year uni physics lectures (that was very hard considering how long ago it was). Having given it some (more) thought, I have concluded that a tyre with a contact patch where the width is near or more than the length of the contact patch is more likely to tramline.
Imagine the side of a wide tyre encountering a grippier surface: The tyre would suddenly engage the higher grip surface on that side and turn the wheel towards that side. As the contact patch is shorter than the width, the "front" of the tyre tread contact patch has less influence on what the rest of the tyre is doing and so allows the tyre to deflect sideways.
What happens when a tyre that has a longer contact patch than it is wide encounters the same higher grip surface on one side? Well, in my opinion, because the area of the contact patch further forward of the lateral centreline is greater than the area of the tyre to side of the centreline of the tyre, the tyre is more likely to just keep tracking straight.
Analogous to this is the polar moment of a car. A car with a higher polar moment (long wheelbase) resists turn-in more than a car with a low polar moment (short wheelbase). Sports cars tend to have short wheelbases so that they can turn-in sharper. GT (Gran Turismo) cars tend to have a longer wheelbase to aid high speed stability (resist turn-in). In this analogy, the long wheelbase car is like the larger diameter tyre with a longer contact patch. The tyre is better able to resist being deflected sideways.
I believe that Honda has countered the tramlining effect on the CU2 by dramatically increasing the diameter of the tyres to elongate the contact patch. The 18" tyre is of even larger diameter than the 17" tyre fitted to the CU2 Standard.
Read the first two paragraphs of the Wikipedia entry under "Contact Patch" found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_patch
What tyres did you have on the 16" and 17" rims?Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
It could help, but I think that suspension setup has a larger effect than the wider track.Quote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
depends which tram tracks your travelling on as well.
With sydney roads, who needs tram tracks! You don't even need speedbumps!Quote:
Originally Posted by MKI4EVA
My tramlining was 100% fixed when i got tein SS and 1 degree toe out with the camber kit fitted and all set up right.
its TOTALLY stable and tracks well now. Especially at speed.
id be disappointed if the new CU2 does this. It should be fixed.
It is fixed. The suspension is so awesome on this car! Unbelievable!Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
With the 16" rims, I had the standard Dunlop 2050M on the car. With the 17" rims I had the Bridgestone RE040 and then Dunlop Sport MAXX. Both the RE040 and the Sport MAXX tramline equally as bad. Of course suspension geometry plays a part but my point is that just by swapping the 16" tyres with the 17" tyres without any suspension geometry change was enough to cause tramlining. The only real difference was the width of the tyres and therefore the contact patch width. I suspect that the 03-04 Euro's suspension was setup for the 205/55R16 tyre. Putting the wider 225/45R17 tyres on upsets the balance as the suspension had not been calibrated (increased castor) for the increased contact patch width.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
When you deflate a tyre, tramlining is reduced because the contact patch is elongated.
I believe that Honda have fixed this on the CU2 by providing tyres of greater diameter to compensate for the width and so provide a more elongated contact patch.