On the comparison totally agree :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMVTEC
Also check out the service costs of the Merc. I think you will be in for a rude shock !
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On the comparison totally agree :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMVTEC
Also check out the service costs of the Merc. I think you will be in for a rude shock !
$500 for the minor service, once a year. Euro is $250 for hte minor service, twice a year. While I don't agree with the 12 month service interval and prefer a 6 month interval, the servicing cost is still comparable. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ok2
@Aarong
A bit of an apple and pear comparison. How much are bot cars new? One is a V6, the other one a Inline 4, one is RWD, the other is FWD.
I'm actually from Germany and drove many German cars, and actually had a position as a fleet manager. German cars are not as good as some people think they are. Especially problems with the electronics and with engines!
Hi guys,
the only problem I have is the rattle problem. Car was already three times at dealer and they can't fix one nasty noise in the left front area of the car.
Otherwise very happy with the car and I knew about all the pros and cons BEFORE I bought the car.
I really have to laugh about the people who complain about the power of the engine. Didn't you test drive the car before you signed on the dotted line?
It is only a 4-Cylinder and not a 6 or 8 Cylinder.
If you want more power, trade the car and buy a Mazda 6 MPS, a SS commodore or whatever.
I had a Verada GTVi before and it had more grunt, but sucked over 2 litres more fuel and wasn't as "zippy". For most the driving I do I don't need more power in a car. And Australian speed limits are pathetic anyway...
I apologise as I didn't realise that the C280 was not considered a passenger car for carrying 5 people. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by marosch
Also, it doesn't matter if the C280 is double the price of an Euro. It is not an unobtainable car for the average person like how a Ferrari or a Zonda is. The C280 is a car that the public can afford as the price is not ridiculous. And in a few years time, the secondhand price of the C280 will be lower than that of a new Euro, making it an alternative if someone didn't mind getting a secondhand car.
It doesn't matter if one is a V6 and the other is an I4. They both are fuel economical engines made for passenger vehicles. Same with being RWD and FWD, it doesn't matter. It's just different ways of achieving the same objective, to get you and your passengers from point A to point B.
So you are going to put a blanket statement over all german engines? Even something as bulletproof as a Porsche 911 boxer-6? The new DOHC 4-valve V6 in the W204 C280 has only been out worldwide since April this year and thus no information on its reliability is available yet. I don't think it is fair to say that it is not reliable when there is no information available yet and that it is significantly different from last year's SOHC 3-valve V6 engine.
Just 3-4 decades ago, Japanese cars (and goods) were thought of as poorly built, unreliable and flimsy cars. If everyone was narrow-minded and never gave Japanese cars a chance to improve, we wouldn't have a car like the Euro. :)
As Aarong says Mercedes (and Porsche)servicing is quite reasonable.If you want a shock check out BMW service costs.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by ok2
Servicing costs for the german cars are reasonable in the years when the car is under warranty. The 12 month service interval keeps the servicing costs in line with the japanese competitors. Unfortunately, the 12 month interval results in gumming of the engine oil in the head, especially in BMWs, which is probably the cause of VANOS failures.
I couldn't drive a car for 12 mths.without an oil change,i'd feel guilty.
And here we have some Honda owners changing the oil every 3 months with
Synthetic. Sounds overkill compared to the 12month BMW servicing intervals.
I get the oil changed at the regular intervals and I dont really see any
performance increase after an oil change, probably cuz its a relatively new car.
An oil change made a huge difference in my EG Civic..
Yeah I've found this helps a lot actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Sometimes the engine dribbles at 300rpm and is about to stall, then suddenly starts up. Quite a difference compared to my Civics easy two-crank start.
@Aarong
Your statement about the comparison about the two cars is a bit wrong in my opinion. We should always compare vehicles in the same league. Engine size and power, size of car and of course price.
I don't put a blanket over all German engines, but the cars are not as good as you think they are. Sure Germans build great cars, but the cars are not faultless and I personally and as a fleet manager have experienced a lot of trouble with electronic failures and engine problems.
The Porsche B6 engines are very reliable, as mainly everything is that Porsche manufacturers. The old Volkswagen B4 engines are nearly as good!
As I mentioned before... Let's compare apples with apples.
Why didn't you buy a second hand Merc if it is better than a Honda?
Am I allowed to ask how many German cars you have owned before?
BTW
If the 12 month service at BMW would result in problems with the VANOS, BMW would change the service interval. Honda has changed the service interval in AUS compared to Europe.
Some AUDI cars require service every 50,000km (in Europe)
In my opinion, it's apples and apples when they are cars that one has shortlisted during his/her car shopping. If I was deciding between a new 2007 Jazz or a 1979 Porsche 911, they are still apples and apples, not pear/orange/mango or banana.Quote:
Originally Posted by marosch
I'm not denying that previous German cars had problems and were not faultless and bulletproof. I'm just saying that you are condemning an engine that was just released this year and no one knows if it is an unreliable engine (yet!).Quote:
Originally Posted by marosch
Both are engines. If we can compare the Euro's I4 to a Liberty's boxer4 or boxer6, I don't see why we can't compare a Merc 230 or 280 V6 to a K24A3. They are all passenger car engines. If I was comparing a K24A3 to a hand prepared 911 GT3 boxer6, then yes, I am being silly. But in my comparison of the C280, both are mass produced engines designed for drivability and not outright power.Quote:
Originally Posted by marosch
When I was shopping for my car in 2004, Merc only had their old 3-valve SOHC engines which made less power per litre than the Euro. Even the fuel consumption for the two were comparable. That's why I chose the Euro. The alternative was the E30 and E36 3-series, but I was put off by the electronics of the E36, while E30s in good condition were uncommon and expensive (didn't feel like paying $11,000 for a good nick 1989 323i).Quote:
Originally Posted by marosch
Opel Rekord Berlina (old old old) and 230 E (yes, E after the 230, not before).
Many many E46 M3s had problems with the VANOS. Go check bimmerworld :) The oil gums up in the head. The engine still runs fine though.Quote:
Originally Posted by marosch