Printable View
No argument here. But when my clients ask me what I will get and how much will it cost I tell them quantifiable figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by INT DIST/TODA
Ok, so you're saying 15Kw? But that's only half the question. How much does that cost?Quote:
A stock S2k is about 145kw at the wheels, with intake mods, Toda cams, header and tune, I have seen low 160's ( Answering the original question on this thread and if the OP would like any advice for his build )
ALPS, agree with you, its just not what the gent asked to start with, but final drive is always a good bang for buck mod, FWD or RWD.
Jimmy, cam change on a S2000 isnt that bad if you have the right tooling and I tend to disagree on the benefit. http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/prod...c-changer.html
I agree, not many shops have built high end NA engines, not to say it cant be done and we do have the insight from the ASM Toda powered car, I first saw that engine in Japan in 2007, it evolved every year, every build, its how they roll, if we can get 170-180kw from 2ltr B series engines, K's and F's are a lot easier, all be it you have greater drivetrain losses to contend with RWD, but yes, NA performance is costly, no doubt and it was mearly for everyone to know what can be done if they are going the NA route.
Elloitt's car was nothing special on power as you say, but his suspension supplied by us and the weight he ripped out of it, was the key to that car, show cased well what a s2k can do.
ok there is some serious heat comin from this thread. lol dont wanna make pple fight....
thanks for your imput Dreadangel - and everyone else.... awesome to read all this...
ok im going to be 100% honest here. int dist/toda you are right... i am not looking for FI. I want to stay NA. i have a lot of friends who believe in turbos and V8's.... and with the car in 100% stock form i can stay right beside a BA XR8 Ute (because they are shit).
the car will be tracked and as we all know turbo cars do struggle in the heat.... and 70% of the people i know who own turbo cars always have issues....i have many cousins and mates telling me im wasting my time and they will smash any s2000... bla bla bla
i have been a honda freak since i was 15 and always believed in NA. im staying NA 100%
now i have this AP2 that i spend a shit load on... im not going to do anything half way.
the last thing i have to do to it is seats, engine and gauges.... everything else is done.... i think
everyone is saying do handling stuff etc.... its all done...
brakes as long as you run braided lines and i ran ferodo ds2500 on my last s2000... nevr had any brake fade
as mentioned earlier im running HKS headers, BERK cat but a TP on the track and a J's 70rs... also have a password JDM intake...
My question is i guess do i go cam and tune... or just bigger throttle body and tune... or just a tune...
my last s2000 i pulled 15rwkw just from Exhaust, cat, headers and intake..... no tune... im confident im going to get some good power... just dont know if its worth the extra $$$ for cams... for 5kw im not going to bother... ill still shit on their lap times... lol
i want to show my stupid mates what you can do with a NA 2L. and show myself of course!!!!!!!
im so keen to get this shit right i bought a car hoist and installed that and have a mechanic come to mine to do all the work with me and infront of me... no half arse shit and no1 touches this thing without me there.... lol (bad experience with some mechanics....)
i can real off a list of what the car has.... but i wont... all ill say is it has cost me over 19k in parts...
and i have effin finshed.... still dont have rims and tires and seats and a computer and gauges.....
so from all this info you guys have given me.... im still not sure... lol
but if we are gonna talk its NA only talk... lol I'd love a s/c but no... against my religion... for my personal car no FI
why not just get cams AND the TB then get a tune? tune last bolt ons first
i could... i just want to make sure cams work eff anything and will still be reliable... and just wanted to know from people with similar setup or know someone with this setup... are the power gains worth it.... 5kw with the cam its really not worth it... but if im looking at like 10+ then yes... lol
If "forced induction" is against your religion then power can be made n/a. Question is - building a high powered n/a with great parts will tend to last, once you start cutting parts out yes it'll make power but the question will under ly how long will it last.
INT - How long have those B series 170-180kw last? what bore what stroke? Do you have back to back graphs of a f20c stock vs toda cams?
Not going into debate about Elliotts S2000, he bought an expensive shock but didn't know how to ultilise the maximum capabilities of them so what is the real point of having such high end product? He's mate yellow s2000 when they both were competing at the super sprints they were within .5 sec of each other. He was on spoon suspension, does the extra 5000 or so gave him that .5 sec edge? Highly doubt it.
So going back to the point, cams wont benefit much. If you want power 2.2L OEM short block and retain you head but this will limit your rpm. Keep the OEM 2L engine, simple bolt-ons and tune will net some nice gains.
philipminge- HKS headers, from memory a back to back against OEM headers it loss power. OEM headers are very well design.
that is the strong opinion i was after... i might give that a go for now and sus out how i go..... what about bigger throttle body???? lol
Gain are to be made with bigger t/b you'll need to remove the intake manifold and bore it out same size as throttle size. So will cost vs gain beneficial, IMO no. Upgrade the FD if you havnt already and get it tuned. Do you have a aftermarket/tunable ECU yet?
FD being Final drive? no i havent got a computer yet as i am still deciding. i want the dash to run the same if possible. i heard with the AEM series 2 EMS it doesnt.... i dont want any BS engine lights up etc etc... but i was thinking about the AEM...
do you have any ideas on this?
If you have an AP2, than Hondata Flashpro!!
All OEM instrument will work as per normal
you'll also need a yellow box to fix up the difference in speedo reading, if you change the fd
http://www.ricks2k.com/products/yellowbox.php