whats better? Nulon 5w/40? nulon 5w/30? or castrol edge 5w/30

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Originally Posted by Phased

In order for me to take your comment even remotely seriously, you have to have some foundation...

- How do you "know" Nulon is better than Castrol Edge for a fact? Because of a bias oil test done by somebody in Australia sponsored by Nulon?!?!?! Show me Independent Oil Analysis'!!! The only two oil analysis' of Nulon I have seen, showed that they have high levels (close to legal limit) of Phosphorus slightly lowering cylinder head wear in certain engines. This however will contribute to higher emissions and lower catalytic converter life. Other than that in a Four Ball Wear test the Nulon was far behind even the Group III PENNZOIL PLATINUM.

- You shouldn't be comparing different viscosity oils... (Castrol Edge 5w30, Nulon 5w40)

- By definition regardless of wear or friction additives a 40 weight oil will give higher fuel consumption at operating temperature.

- The further apart the viscosity index (5w40 vs. 5w30) in a Group III (Mineral) oil the greater amount of viscosity modifiers are required which will have adverse effect on friction and wear. This isn't held true in oils like AMSOIL, Royal Purple, Motul as a fully synthetic oil (PAO/ESTER) are 'naturally' multi-viscosity oils.

- Nulon has a higher pour point which indicates poorer cold start and flow characteristics... Which is when the most engine wear is caused.

- Nulon only contains a minimum of 60% Group III "Synthetic Oil" the rest is mineral oil and additives. Castrol Edge contains a minimum of 70% Group III Base Stock.

You seem to be very stuck to the point it's Australian, I can 100% understand what your saying about supporting Australia. However, until we create something that is actually the same or better than competitors products (even if its slightly more expensive) I will stick to better products.

If I had a "sportier" car and drove hard I would be using AMSOIL no questions. However, Changing at 5000kms becomes expensive. I just changed out my first lot of Castrol Edge and am sending some FEO, Castrol Edge 5w30 and AMSOIL 5w30 away for Oil Analysis.

I would try Nulon, however I've seen Oil Analysis out of a K20A and it wasn't fantastic. It was compared to Mobil 1, Castrol Edge and Elf 5w30's. Nulon is just another Group III.

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So do you think I'm wasting my time on Nulon "fully Synth" 10w40? I decided to change to synthetic at 168,000Km on my b16a2 (11,000 kms and 2oil changes ago. The reason I got it in the 1st place is the local Supercheap/Repco didn't stock anything better and synthetic at that viscosity. Autobarn, who have a wide selection are over 25 Kms away. I wasn't goin to buy castrol as didn't want to risk getting something so light as 5w30 incase I developed leaks on my higher mileage engine.

I drive my car reasonably hard and usually shift at 4krpm. Of course the oil is changed no more than say every 5-6,000kms.

I would like to switch to motul, but I've heard that its not a good idea to change brands too often. Besides, Nulon are pretty price competetive
( and I can get it around the corner from my house.) Furthermore, like I've stated before, the engine seems to run well, and oil consumption and fuel economy is no more than when I used mineral FEO.

I would like to hear your opinions, not just from Phased, but from some OH veterans.

Don't flame me for my naivety as I'm not an oil specialist,

MikeCivic

i know for a fact that my car uses less fuel with the nulon oil in then the castrol because i have tested it in my own car, as this thread is for the average person asking for what people think is the better oil to run i far prefer the nulon oil to the castrol edge.
as for all my other componets diff gearbox i use the redline oils and i would use that or royal purple but i cant see the gain in spending the extra money when i change the oil and filter every 5000 or before a long trip anyway

i think what you know is interesting if you can post up some kind of comparasion between the popular brands of oils that would be awesome as i am interested to know thats for sure but if we dont support aus brands how will they ever get better and grow into these other brands you mentioned that the normal person would have never heard of or seen in a store?

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Originally Posted by Mikecivic78

So do you think I'm wasting my time on Nulon "fully Synth" 10w40? I decided to change to synthetic at 168,000Km on my b16a2 (11,000 kms and 2oil changes ago. The reason I got it in the 1st place is the local Supercheap/Repco didn't stock anything better and synthetic at that viscosity. Autobarn, who have a wide selection are over 25 Kms away. I wasn't goin to buy castrol as didn't want to risk getting something so light as 5w30 incase I developed leaks on my higher mileage engine.

I drive my car reasonably hard and usually shift at 4krpm. Of course the oil is changed no more than say every 5-6,000kms.

I would like to switch to motul, but I've heard that its not a good idea to change brands too often. Besides, Nulon are pretty price competetive
( and I can get it around the corner from my house.) Furthermore, like I've stated before, the engine seems to run well, and oil consumption and fuel economy is no more than when I used mineral FEO.

I would like to hear your opinions, not just from Phased, but from some OH veterans.

Don't flame me for my naivety as I'm not an oil specialist,

MikeCivic

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In the real world... the difference of wear is usually only seen on cars that have used synthetic for a while and when they reach past 200,000kms. Past this point, it's usually other issues and mechanical problems that cause unreliability. Very rarely is it due to internal failure due to poor quality oil.

In all realism; statistics show that a car is likely to be written off (Crash, Stolen, dumped etc) before it reaches a point to were synthetic oils would of shown their true benefits. Thus why Synthetic Oil manufactures push towards Fleet use.

You are better off changing more often than using these far fetched extended drain intervals. If you read modern Honda Service manuals, oil gets changed every 10k and filter every 20k. I change my oil (now using Castrol Edge 5w30 and AMSOIL Ea Synthetic Oil Filter) every 5,000kms.

I'm a firm believer in a good Quality Oil Filter. After all whats the point in having perfectly engineered $100 Oil if your filter only filters efficiently down to 35 Microns. Your oil will end up being quickly contaminated anyway.

Bottom Line: Change more often, Use a quality Oil Filter. High Quality Synthetics are good, but if money is an issue prioritize change intervals and Oil Filter.

Oil Filters
The Good:
AMSOIL Ea Absolute Efficiency (98.7% at 15 Microns)
Pureolator PureONE (99.9% at 20 Microns)
K&N Gold (Semi-Synthetic)
Mobil 1 (Same Manufacturer as K&N)

Ryco are OK

Do not recommend: Repco, Valvoline etc.

It's up to whether you think the extra protection and POSSIBLE fuel efficiency is worth the extra money.

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Originally Posted by Phased

Bottom Line: Change more often, Use a quality Oil Filter. High Quality Synthetics are good, but if money is an issue prioritize change intervals and Oil Filter.

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Change more often?

As stated in my last post, I change it every 5-6000Km.

The filter gets changed at this time aswell (OEM filter). I don't use my car on the track, so how often are you suggesting I change it?

What do ppl think of elf Excellium GP 10W-50 this is what i am currently running

I still rate Castrol Edge 5w/30 as the top choice. I believe the FEO Honda Oil nothing compared to Castrol Edge.

i find this relaly interesting

Oil Filters
The Good:
AMSOIL Ea Absolute Efficiency (98.7% at 15 Microns)
Pureolator PureONE (99.9% at 20 Microns)
K&N Gold (Semi-Synthetic)
Mobil 1 (Same Manufacturer as K&N)

Ryco are OK

The pureONE oil filters are really not that expensive either i will definalty be using these from now on instead of the Ryco ones!

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Originally Posted by Mikecivic78

Change more often?

As stated in my last post, I change it every 5-6000Km.

The filter gets changed at this time aswell (OEM filter). I don't use my car on the track, so how often are you suggesting I change it?

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Sorry. When I stated Change more often... It was a generalization... not specific to yourself.

5000km is what I would recommend. Nulon is sufficient. The only thing I would be considering to change with your maintenance habits would possibly look into a better oil filter. Even though I don't believe Nulon rates well enough to justify it's price... it's still a good Group III. And is better than a basic mineral.

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Originally Posted by blabla

What do ppl think of elf Excellium GP 10W-50 this is what i am currently running

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Elf is still a Group III. However I would class it as one of the better group III's.

One point I would be looking at is the Viscosity, I hope you typed 50 by mistake. Unless your honda is chewing through oil (in which case it should be rebuilt) you shouldn't be using a oil as heavy as that.

Soon enough we might actually see Group III Oils (Severe Hydro-Procesed) oils with the same and possibly better qualities than Group IV (PAO's) although most may not think it's possible and if your aware of how both of the processes differ (One is severely "filtered or processed" mineral oil where as PAO's are basically derived from gases, and Esters (Group V's) are usually derived from Natural Acids) It would seem common sense that something engineered would be better.

However there is a new Hydro-Processing method on the way and is going to be dubbed Group III+. With this process it's possible to get Group III's with similar NOACK Vitality, Pour Point and flow properties of a PAO (Group IV).

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Originally Posted by lookingforboost

i find this relaly interesting

Oil Filters
The Good:
AMSOIL Ea Absolute Efficiency (98.7% at 15 Microns)
Pureolator PureONE (99.9% at 20 Microns)
K&N Gold (Semi-Synthetic)
Mobil 1 (Same Manufacturer as K&N)

Ryco are OK

The pureONE oil filters are really not that expensive either i will definalty be using these from now on instead of the Ryco ones!

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Just make sure it is a PureONE not just a normal Purolator. The chances are why they are cheap is because Purolator itself distributes in Australia... Instead of passing through about 3 Distributors like the K&N and Mobil 1's do. That's what ruins Australian Retail prices on Oil and many other things... Lower Demand and the Chain Effects of Distribution.

elf is around the same price as nulon just a quick price from supercheap the 10-40 is $59.95

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Originally Posted by blabla

What do ppl think of elf Excellium GP 10W-50 this is what i am currently running

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Too thick. 1 step thinner to a 40 weight.

Group III has one advantage over Group IV. Group III tends to adhere to metal surfaces for longer than Group IV. If you only drive your car on the weekends, then the Group III leaves a protective layer on the engine internals for longer. Group IV on the other hand is better for a daily driven car where the oil film does not have a chance to run down. Group IV does last longer than Group III and resists oil breakdown from extreme conditions.

Some people think ester-based oils (Group V) like the 300V is the best. While they do protect the best, they also break down very quickly, quicker than a Group III. Group V is better suited for a racing car doing many lap of circuit racing.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Group III has one advantage over Group IV. Group III tends to adhere to metal surfaces for longer than Group IV. If you only drive your car on the weekends, then the Group III leaves a protective layer on the engine internals for longer. Group IV on the other hand is better for a daily driven car where the oil film does not have a chance to run down. Group IV does last longer than Group III and resists oil breakdown from extreme conditions.

Some people think ester-based oils (Group V) like the 300V is the best. While they do protect the best, they also break down very quickly, quicker than a Group III. Group V is better suited for a racing car doing many lap of circuit racing.

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Exactly as I said about the Esters. I would only really recommend them for track use. (Change before; Change after).

I have not really heard or seen any proof (have only heard theories/stories) of why Group III's leave a protective layer for longer. Even a Four-Ball Wear test or Severe Hydro Pressure test doesn't reveal what happens to the oil once gravity/other forces have caused it to come away from the surface.

I like the AMSOIL (100% PAO Basestock, of course a percentage of this is additives) however... I want to change my oil every 5,000kms and AMSOIL becomes far too expensive... and of course... with AMSOIL you don't get the Oil Change Sticker to let people know what oil you're running... the most important part! xD

Can't wait until I finally get results back from Oil Anaylsis! AMSOIL 5w30 vs Royal Purple 5w30 vs Castrol Edge 5w30 vs Honda FEO 10w30!!!