Choosing Coilovers for my daily car

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Originally Posted by chargeR

They look to be a twin tube design so they probably have plenty enough stroke to tolerate plenty of ride height change. Losing shock bump stroke at lower ride heights doesn't seem to bother Moton, Penske, JRZ, AST, Bilstein, Ohlins, Koni, KW etc. and you will rarely find height adjustment independent of shock stroke on shocks like that except when the engineers are getting creative with droop limiting or other advanced tuning techniques that are rarely applicable to FWD Hondas. Topping out a shock is just as bad as bottoming it out.

Also preload is a stupid term and should be struck from the vocabulary of automotive enthusiasts. You imply some "preload" is desirable, why is this? What's wrong with having the spring loose at full droop?

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Wouldnt having it uncaptured at full extention mean on the chance that when you're at full extention (for example on the inside tyres of a high G corner) you have "x" amount of unloaded compression when the weight gets shifted back. Which wouldn't be ideal, yes?

The biggest issue you will have when a coil becomes untrapped is that it can move from the locating seat and potentially damage the shock rod or body when the coil is compressed again in this position.

Pre-load is a stupid term when it comes to coilovers, think of it this way - wind the spring seat up, wind the spring seat down what have you changed? The position of the spring, that is all. The weight on the coil is still exactly the same! If you wind up the "pre-load" on the coil you are simply bringing the spring closer to the installed or loaded height, the closer you are to loaded height, the less droop or down travel the shock has then negating the rebound effort of the shock. Once you have little or no rebound stroke you will also experience less tyre contact with the road making the car skittish and handle worse.

The only reason the spring seat is adjustable on those coilovers is to allow different length coils to be used on a one size fits all shock body and also you can try and set the coilovers up so that once at ride height the shock has the ideal amount of stroke in bump and rebound.

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Originally Posted by senna

The biggest issue you will have when a coil becomes untrapped is that it can move from the locating seat and potentially damage the shock rod or body when the coil is compressed again in this position.

Pre-load is a stupid term when it comes to coilovers, think of it this way - wind the spring seat up, wind the spring seat down what have you changed? The position of the spring, that is all. The weight on the coil is still exactly the same! If you wind up the "pre-load" on the coil you are simply bringing the spring closer to the installed or loaded height, the closer you are to loaded height, the less droop or down travel the shock has then negating the rebound effort of the shock. Once you have little or no rebound stroke you will also experience less tyre contact with the road making the car skittish and handle worse.

The only reason the spring seat is adjustable on those coilovers is to allow different length coils to be used on a one size fits all shock body and also you can try and set the coilovers up so that once at ride height the shock has the ideal amount of stroke in bump and rebound.

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how do you go about doin this??

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Originally Posted by Oxer

To lower those coilovers it would appear you would have to wind down your spring perch, therefore loosing your preload. BC have adjustable lower perches to change the height whilst keeping the spring preloaded. $1420 for coilovers that lose shock stroke to lower? May aswell cut the springs on stock struts, does the same thing. you can stick to your fancy names ;)

Anyone having dramas with BC's being too bouncy is most likely due to higher then standard preload rates, matched with a high dampening rate. you can fine tune BC's to ride amazingly, you just need to know what you are doing in order to adjust them.

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how did you tune out the bouncyness??

You need to measure the total stroke of the inserts, then make sure that the installed height allows enough travel each way. You keep adjusting the spring seat until the shock has around (for example) 65% bump stroke to 35% rebound stroke.

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Originally Posted by chargeR

They look to be a twin tube design so they probably have plenty enough stroke to tolerate plenty of ride height change. Losing shock bump stroke at lower ride heights doesn't seem to bother Moton, Penske, JRZ, AST, Bilstein, Ohlins, Koni, KW etc. and you will rarely find height adjustment independent of shock stroke on shocks like that except when the engineers are getting creative with droop limiting or other advanced tuning techniques that are rarely applicable to FWD Hondas. Topping out a shock is just as bad as bottoming it out.

Also preload is a stupid term and should be struck from the vocabulary of automotive enthusiasts. You imply some "preload" is desirable, why is this? What's wrong with having the spring loose at full droop?

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http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/p...png?1318394475

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Originally Posted by senna

The biggest issue you will have when a coil becomes untrapped is that it can move from the locating seat and potentially damage the shock rod or body when the coil is compressed again in this position.

Pre-load is a stupid term when it comes to coilovers, think of it this way - wind the spring seat up, wind the spring seat down what have you changed? The position of the spring, that is all. The weight on the coil is still exactly the same! If you wind up the "pre-load" on the coil you are simply bringing the spring closer to the installed or loaded height, the closer you are to loaded height, the less droop or down travel the shock has then negating the rebound effort of the shock. Once you have little or no rebound stroke you will also experience less tyre contact with the road making the car skittish and handle worse.

The only reason the spring seat is adjustable on those coilovers is to allow different length coils to be used on a one size fits all shock body and also you can try and set the coilovers up so that once at ride height the shock has the ideal amount of stroke in bump and rebound.

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Actually, If you wind a spring up, beyond the point of where contact to the top plate it, and continue to wind it up, you are "Loading" the spring. A spring doesnt just compress and the rate stays the same, the rate will change as it is under a lot more force then it it was not "Loaded" therefore the ride would become quite a bit stiffer and more bouncy.

The term "Pre-Load" is only stupid to people who think they know how suspension components work.


Everyone is an expert in here though. Thank god for E-mechanics/E-engineers.

How does a liner rate spring increase in spring rate if you compress it more? It's linear...

So if a 500lb/in spring takes 500 pounds to compress one inch, it requires an additional 500 pounds to compress it another inch. What you aren't thinking about is that the weight you are about to put on the car hasn't changed.

Soooo....if you install a coil spring in to a car already at the loaded height, why would it change in strength or position once you put the car back down on the ground? All you have done is remove all of the rebound stroke from the shock. You might change the ride height, but not the coil installed height/length.

Your theory only works if the coils are a progressive design, like stacked or tapered wire, but then it will only work at a particular spring rate until the weight of the car is no longer adequate to compress the spring further than its current loaded height.

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Originally Posted by senna

How does a liner rate spring increase in spring rate if you compress it more? It's linear...

So if a 500lb/in spring takes 500 pounds to compress one inch, it requires an additional 500 pounds to compress it another inch. What you aren't thinking about is that the weight you are about to put on the car hasn't changed.

Soooo....if you install a coil spring in to a car already at the loaded height, why would it change in strength or position once you put the car back down on the ground? All you have done is remove all of the rebound stroke from the shock. You might change the ride height, but not the coil installed height/length.

Your theory only works if the coils are a progressive design, like stacked or tapered wire, but then it will only work at a particular spring rate until the weight of the car is no longer adequate to compress the spring further than its current loaded height.

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But if you are winding the spring up on the strut, beyond the point of contact, you are compressing the spring, therefore changing the rate in which it will rebound at.

I think you are trying to argue a point without understanding what I am explaining. Maybe I just have terrible descriptive skills on the internet therefore what I say isnt worth shit.

My bad.

In saying that, you should never wind the spring up beyond the point of contact, But I have seen "Suspension Specialists" do that exact thing. Hence why I bring that subject up.

I see what you are saying, but i don't see how you can get a linear rate coil to do anything different from a loaded height. Apart from topping out the shock on rebound or droop.

Honestly, i don't want a keyboard war happening here, It's only going to mess this thread up further and i only came here to get some info as i'm buying a civic by the end of next week - just trying to give back where i can.

Suspension is my profession by the way. :thumbsup:

lol...


Maybe one day when Im back in sydney we can discuss it in person and I could explain the way it works a lot easier.

Happy to hear it :thumbsup: