overkill 62mm itr TB???

Q cannot be decreased riceball... because of the constant vaccuum in the chamber..

BUT flow or Q can only be increased... in case of a NA engine..(increasing)
so velocity can only stay the same.. as area increases..and Q(flow or volume) increases

in a normal situation yes...
velocity is affected when Area is increased and Q stays the same..(constant)..

if you dont understand what im trying to say i dont blame you..
it is hard to understand something that make sense.. to some people who can't picture it...

but ask any body that have any experience on what i have said
and i did not get that from the internet.. thats what i studied in Uni

[QUOTE=riceball;1485804]

Q is decreased because V is Decreased due to an much larger increase in A. Think of it like a smaller river running into the ocean. The area is increased once it reaches the ocean, and therefore the velocity and volume flow rate is decreased. Correct me if i am wrong. Enough of the stupid equations though.

[QUOTE]
SORRY I HAVE TO CORRECT YOU ON THAT!!! because
in your statement above. Q(or what you called volume flow rate(which is the same thing.))
Q dosent not change, area is increased therfore only Velocity decreases.
however you will still get the same value of Q..


AND YES Q is FLOW or FLOW VOLUME or VOLUME FLOW RATE!!! they are the same thing called differently.. if you want to get into the specifics.

but like i said earlier Q does not stay constant because on a NA engine you will always have Vaccuum...
but if you insist you are right and dont believe me thats fine :)

im just passing some knowledge here but since we got so many "smart people" here in ozhonda.. i'll keep quiet...:zip:

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Originally Posted by Hipowerracing

FYI in your statement above. Q(or what you called volume flow rate(which is the same thing.))
Q dosent not change, area is increased therfore only Velocity decreases.
however you will still get the same value of Q..
SORRY I HAVE TO CORRECT YOU ON THAT!!!

AND YES Q is FLOW or FLOW VOLUME or VOLUME FLOW RATE!!! they are the same thing called differently.. if you want to get into the specifics.

but like i said earlier Q does not stay constant because on a NA engine you will always have Vaccuum...
but if you insist you are right and dont believe me thats fine :)

im just passing some knowledge here but ias we got so many "smart people" here in ozhonda.. i'll keep quiet...:zip:

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Man.. I really have no idea on what the hell you are saying. You say that Q does Q can only be increased, then you say that Q is constant.

and NO. Flow or Volume is not the same as volume flow rate. You stated flow OR volume, it is DIFFERENT from VOLUME FLOW RATE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hipowerracing

however you will still get the same value of Q..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hipowerracing

but like i said earlier Q does not stay constant

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Care to explain cause i really don't understand "smart" people talk, way too technical for me.

in a normal situtation like when you open a waterpipe.. Q is constant...
or in the case of a fuel line.. supplied by a pump... yes Q is constant. example a 280l/hr fuel pump.. no matter what your fuel pipe is your Q is 280l/hr... changing the area does not increase your 280lhr of fuel passing thru your fuel line.

but in an engine it is not CONSTANT because VACCUUM on the cylinder chamber.
as you open the throttle body the vaccuum sucking the air in changes the flow Q(or whatever you want to call it). and the bigger the area allows for more air sucked Thru hence Q can only be increasing.

when i said you get the same value of Q i(Q is CONSTANT)is when your stupid anology of the river and sea thing.. yes the river and sea still gets the same volume of water no matt if river isbigger or smaller..

but in the engine due to "suction" OR VACCUUM!!! Q does not stay constant(it increases) and by giveing it a bigger area you allow the engine to suck more as the Surface area is enlarged
>>> BIGGER Q = Velocity x BIGGER AREA
thats how you encourage your engine to get more volume of air with a bigger throttle body..
(this happens when you open step in the peddle and the engine sucks the air)..
need for a bigger Q(volume,flow of volume,whatever) as there is vaccuum in the combustion chamber. what do you do?? to increase the Q(volume,flow of volume,whatever). having the fomula Q=VA
you can either
1) increase the velocity (in situation where area stays constant) by porting the head so you have less turbulence and faster swirls speed. OR
2) increase the AREA (iin situation that velocity stays constant) by adding a bigger thorttlebody.. OR
3)do both.

okay understand?? dont worry... i think you are right and im wasting my time trying to prove apoint...

soo.. does the engine have a limit to how much suction or vacuum it can provide? Or does it just keep increasing? Providing that its a stock engine, IHE and maybe slightly bigger cams?

there is a limit.. suction is baseon the 1st draw of your 4 stroke engine...
example things that will change your suction.

1)cam timing (opening and closing of intak vlaves)
2)stroke of the engine..
3)piston bore size.
4)timing..
5)valve size
there is a list of things that can affect it..

okay i'll explain why it keeps increasing.. because your engine revs faster and faster.. suckion at 5000rpm is smaller than 10000rpm.. more agian at 13000 rpm... and so on..
the stroke thrown becomes quicker and quicker.. the downward force is faster sucking more and more..
make sense?? (in open throttle situtation).
so even on a stock engine situation is same...

engine sucks in more and more air.. thats why flow/volume/whatever you want to call it.. is increasing..

thats why quard throttles give you more power.. because it trys to make the AREA infinate.. or close to it.. to allow for the engine to suck freely..

that is the theory.. behind intakes..

Well, let me be more specific. Stock B18 engine with IHE. Stock rev limit. Would i be better off with a 80mm or a 140mm.

140mm will be the same as a 80mm...(lets say 80mmTB is Optimal for 8000rpm with stock engine)

because in all situation the suction will increase.. you will not go backwards.

let me explain.
in the case of a bigger throttlebody.. because if your rev limiters allows only 8000rpm...
you will still have a Area big enough for the Volume needed and speed at which the air will fill the combustion chamber up will not decrease because the velocity at your intake ports still stays the same..

if you add up the surface areas of a quard throttle set up it adds up to be more than a 140mm.. haha..

but of course the best engineering is enginnering for optimal not over engineering.. so if 80mm does the job.. and you dont have to modify the manifold to fit a 140mm TB.. that is good...

so my answer is using a 140mm TB {that is if you can fit that on a intake manifold..) will be the same as a 80mm TB you will not go backwards.. but if you want to rev your engine to 20000rpm at least the provisions for that is available with the 140mm TB(so to speak).

but if the head doesnt flow wat increase do u have??..

after the optimal .. no increase in power... but also no Decrease... that is to say 140mm is optimal..
but nobody knows what area is optimal... like i said im runnin 80mm which is huge.. and i need more..

but 140mm is huge.. it's just riceball fiqure of speech... biggest throttlebody i have supplied is 100mm~120mm billet on V8 and some 1000hp GTRs(TOPRPM using Q45 infinity TB)

each quad throttle body has smaller surface area than a single TB. Each throttle will have greater velocity, yet still be able to get the large quanity of air collectively.

Same concept goes for headers and exhaust, you'd be retarted to use 3" primaries on your headers and a 5" catback.

And Happy New Year YO!

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Originally Posted by barefootbonzai

each quad throttle body has smaller surface area than a single TB. Each throttle will have greater velocity, yet still be able to get the large quanity of air collectively.

Same concept goes for headers and exhaust, you'd be retarted to use 3" primaries on your headers and a 5" catback.

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yes because the velocity of air is actually in the intake ports that counts.. area on the single TB does affectthe velocity much..

make sense duiy?
but if you add the SURFACE AREA of the Quads it is larger than a single TB.. yeah?

but velocity isnt compromised because it is at the point of the intake ports that matters anyways.. some people say it is the actual lift and size of the valve that counts.. as that is the last area before air is tumbled into the cylinder...

but in an enclosed intake manifold..the more air the better..
So on the subject of Surface AREA.. bigger is definately better..

need back to back dyno !!!!