All I know is there is 300+ dyno runs done on Insight Motorsports dyno testing intakes on B20/B18/B16a setups some of which the boys where involved the rest no one but Dave and Scott know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
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All I know is there is 300+ dyno runs done on Insight Motorsports dyno testing intakes on B20/B18/B16a setups some of which the boys where involved the rest no one but Dave and Scott know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Honda got it right with the stock airbox and rubber intake arm :confused:
Anyways, lets hear more theories
All set-ups tuned on the dyno we have had different size piping and length to tune each motor. Some length's you cant fit in the engine bay, so there is give and take when its comes to the lengthQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
The blox filter combo has been one of the best filter tested against the big branded fliters
Jimmy told me that SRI would work better then CAI... BUT i was told me other b20 builders from the states aswell so ye...Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Let's get some dyno sheets to back this up !
Although , would it be a general concensus that any particular type of intake will benefit a similar engine to a built b20 ? (ofcourse tuned)
you can compare the SRI to the CAI unless you are driving both on the road. When dynoing the bonnet will be up letting the hot engine bay air out and obviously the CAI will be restricted as it sits near the ground. The dyno's fans cant be compared to road air either.
Im using stock airbox and piping atm and I think it works great, just as good if not better than my SRI I had previously....Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
Heading back to costs for a sec.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Was quoted $320 for the complete bottom end from my local parts guys in Brisbane about an hour ago while picking up some other bits and pieces ;)
Also what would the average engineering/mod plating costs be for a displacement increase?
If anyone has an estimate that'd be great.
so which oil pick up would be used? and are you able to use B16/B18 aftermarket/OEM oil sump?
Standard OEM b20 oil pickup with B20 sump. B20 and B16a share the same sump.Quote:
Originally Posted by riruiz_88
You can also run B18c/type R sump.
very nice. thanks for quick answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 02gzm
My point exactly bro.
If you pay more than $500 then you've been jibbed. And if you've paid $800-1000 then sure, it's not like that's where the most of the build money is going to go, but that wasted $300-500 could get you a new CAI or a dyno tune.
In VIC it's around $600-1000 for an engineering cert (my mate is doing one right now for his B18CR in ED9) but this depends on whether or not you need to do extra work to satisfy their sadistic need for perfection/registration at VicRoads...
Interesting thread to say the least, but as for b20 second hand prices, if the engine is to be stripped and fully rebuilt, then the condition of the engine you would be starting with wouldnt be of much concern, as for engines with low km's that may just have the pistons notched or go back into a crv for a replacment, thats where a engine would and should be a higher price.
But as has been said, how many 150+ dyno's are on here, not many, and how many people ( i know a fair few now ) have attempted to strap one together with what they would consider a decent parts list and fallen well short, as for 160+ i believe my engine is the only B series on here with a dyno sheet to back it up, not to say they might not be out there, but they are very few and far between.
N/A B-Series, you mean?
Dyno numbers are one thing and running the times is another. Anyone can make xxx amount on the dyno. There is too many variables when it comes to dyno number. Our B20vtec could make easily over the 160kw mark if we strap on street tyres and reduce the camber from-ve 3.5 deg. But to simulate the load on the engine, we opted to dyno using semi slicksQuote:
Originally Posted by Slaz
I could agree more with you Benny but it was strapped in using a much less favorable ramp rate or mode then some use ;) , was spinning 17inch wheels and tyres. 2.5 deg, on pump fuel with a cat fitted and a 38 degree day with a 3 hour tune, not bad considering.
The point i was trying to make was alot out there dont make the 150kw mark at all and they are easier said then done and often come at a cost much higher then some claim it can be done for, just look at your asking price for your engine considering the parts included, not so budget is it.
Leo whens your new engine going to be ready?.
In terms of intake manifold vs ITB's which makes the most torque and kw reading?.
itbs make better torque afaik
id like to ask about exhaust system.
let say if i do b18c type r stock head internal with stock b20.
just plan to make 2.5inch b pipe. will it result in power lose if i go without resonator and without catalitic? just header go straight pipe to the muffler? or do i need to run resonator to avoid top end power lose?
apart from being illegal on public roads, it will be fine...
resonators are simply to change the noise, nothing to do with power AFAIK...
isnt it without reson the flow gonna be better?? higher flow means better performance??
please re-phrase your question... you mean the resonator improves flow?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_kentu
yes, higher flow will usually never not be a contributor to better performance...Quote:
higher flow means better performance??
the resonator just reduces the sound. I had the resonator removed from my old 2.25 inch setup it was about the same loudness as a Buddyclub spec 2 catback..ie very f!#$% loud
hi guys sorry to interrupt but i want some advice on the power output i'd gain from a b18c/b20b with cams and cam gears using the stock b16a2 box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anster
hmmm, i'd reckon maybe between 97.2kw and 135.8kw - depending on tyres and camber settings...
lol.....Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
its running on 17 x 7 205's with stock cambers although it seems to look like theres more because of height from coilovers. it will be used with a cai, headers, catback and standalone ecu. just wnatto see what type of power it should produce before any plans really take place.
well, that extra info means that we could estimate that it might put out between 105 and 115kw depending mostly on what cams, what intake manifold, what exhaust manifold and how it is tuned...Quote:
Originally Posted by anster
i've got a b16a2 in the eg. so i might run either standard intake manifold or opt to upgrade to either skunk2 or edelbrock and as for headers im running 4-1 xforce and magnaflow exhaust. cai is custom to the foggie. um tyre wise i'vegota set of 16 x 7 which will be used instead of the 17s which are just temporary.
lol
anster don't be so concerned about figures. seriously.
going from stock b16 to b20vtec w/ cams will be a hell of a step up and you're gonna feel it when u put your foot down!
saying you're gonna do 'cams' and I/H/E leaves the assumptions and estimations pretty open - at least specifying what sort of cams will make a big difference. there's more than one or two options you know?!
^ well said.
so when of any of these built b20s going to do the 1/4 mile and prove some performance figures ?
i would imagine the performance , to be somewhere inbetween a standard b18c7 and a standard k20 (in the same chassis)
i know, alot of talking and not enough walkingQuote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Quote:
Originally Posted by delsol9000rpms
well.......this topic started on PEAK power numbers and costs to achieve so.
But , like all things these arent entirely relevant as the gearbox takes over a cars performance more than anything.
I know for a fact , a mate had a b20 "setup" in his eg like 4 years ago and liked it alot. It was actually really fast. He sold it to a guy and it blew up soon after (from what i remember)
I wanted to take to WSID :( now I can't
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyG
when jeff comes back i am pushing him to run it ! Just gotta do the rear brakes and its sexy time :)
im thinking toda cams and cam gears. im just curious of performance it should produce as this is the first time working on a honda. usually work on nissans and mazdas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiye
all good. seems to be an avenue that hasn't been explored here a whole lot so i guess there's not too many people to comment.
anster a stock b20 should be around 120kw, with cams, intake manifold, throttle body upgraded maybe around 140kw..
as kraiye said b20's havent really been explored much in australia. there is one dude that made around 180kw out of his stock sleeve B20VTEC, and if your saying his dyno read high, he ran a 12.3 Second 1/4mile in his DC2 Chassis, for more info heres a link. ill see if i can find a video of his run.
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2068126
Then after he sleeved a block to 86mm (golden eagle b20 block) stock 89mm b20 crank
+more mods and made 260hp and ran a 11.9 second 1/4 mile DC2 Chassis
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2282689
VIDEO of runs
12.4 stock sleeve run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe08I...eature=related
11.9 run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ukJxHSRc0
lol @ "EL PITUFO"
whats that mean lol
EL PITUFO means "the smurf" ... gsi psi you need to upgrade your spanish vocab with some 10+mana with regen
12.9@108mph, 2.1 60ft B20vtec (V2 spec) @ 144kw EG chasisQuote:
Originally Posted by delsol9000rpms
13.4@103mph, 2.0 60ft B20vtec (V1 spec) @ 123kw DC2R chasis
13.6@103mph, 2.1 60ft B20vtec (V1 spec) @ unknown (road tuned) CRX chasis (fuel pump issue)
*Estimated time from last year BYP B20vtec @ 155kw's based on circuit data on straights line speeds and acceleration mid to low 12's (possible 11's with slicks) @ 112-115mph :)
I hate to burst your bubble but there is no way it would run an 11, even with slicks unless the car weighs around 800kg.
Why cant it run 11's? IF we have had gone down the drag set-up, i believe it would of ran some decent times. But Drag racing is not my thing.
Good insight , from someone who actually knows from experience and knowledge :)Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy rooster
If it's not your thing , get out of this thread then and stop gloating lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
run it down the 1/4 and prove it's not just talk !
Im not gloating, someone said to post some times and i did. Then i followed up with estimated 1/4mile time if we have had ran it before we took it out of the car.
Only reason i go to the drags is to make sure its running the right MPH for the dyno output. Times are irrelevant for circuit racing
No need to prove anything, the B20vtec we had was quick and we know it was a quick motor. Both data and results on the track has certainly proved this.
Anyways, have you got anything to contribute to this thread?
108mph isnt a 11 second pass...
Quote:
Originally Posted by delsol9000rpms
Interesting , my 103mph netted a 13.8.
Does another 5mph trap speed mean 11's ?
More b20 build results guys ! !
I'll have one very shortly
This thread has turned to poop I am going to play somewhere else :confused:
What benny says is of relevance. Me myself don't really give 2 hoots about drag times as its circuit times that are of relevance. Drag times for a circuit car are just pure curiosity to me, it has no bearing on what it is as complete package. Take a 5sec 1/4mile top fuel drag car to Bathurst and see what time it does. Does the top fuel drag car owner really care what time he will do around Bathurst??? I think not.
Same with us circuit guys, who cares if we do a 16sec 1/4mile time, if at the circuit its quick, then its quick.
V8 supercars post some of the fastest lap times on aussie circuits, but at the drags they only do an 11's. Does it mean they are slow??? Hell no!!!!!
Circuit cars and drag cars are chalk and cheese.
People that live on drag times to see how fast a car is should pull their heads out their arse and get out to a track and see how fast their car is then.
But going back to benny talking about doing 11's, at the end of the day you can't speculate. Yes it might be able to, but its the same as saying that when you set the lap record at Eastern Creek you could of gone faster. As true as that might be, until you go faster its pointless speculating
The times/figures are what they are. 12.9 is a 12.9, not an 11. It might be able to do an 11 but until the time is done there is no point speculating.
B20 is very underated in OZ. A fully worked B20 should be able to crack an 11.
There are people in the States that run 11's with B20's so thats proof enough.
So at the end of the day, yes a B20 N/A can crack 11's, but the BYP B20 has not... as of yet (maybe soon?? hehe)
this thread has gone down the drain abit :(
I have a question i would like to ask about the exhaust setups.
I was told a 2.5 inch catback to exhaust would be a better package then a 3inch catback to exhaust.
just want to know why would that be.
We done a open header test on the dyno. Open header didnt gain much over the 2.5' exhaust. By placing 3' exhaust is just for pure noise on a b20.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyG
Interesting topic.
I'll be starting with a 2.5" setup on mine, however with my 2.4L nissan that barely breathes as much as a b20vtec would, I noticed gains all over my powerband when I went from 2.5 -> 3". It could be placebo, I will try it again one day...
Datsuns need all the help they can get and bigger is always better on them,BYP did alot of header and exhaust testing on there B20 and if 3" worked dont you think they would have run it,now K series is a different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
what is the difference? k20 & b20Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
K engine's like very little pressure in the exhaust system, bore/stroke/rod ratio/cyl head flow/cam timing/header design all play a very important part in choosing the correct size exhaust system :honda:Quote:
Originally Posted by mocchi
whoops forgot GEARING is another very important factor but no one listens to Toda AU he has been saying that for years
if you don't mind, can you please elaborate? i would like to know more.
thanks
Gearing is everything. The correct application can also increase or decrease your power output on a dyno too.
I cant elaborate but just a general note alot of dc5r's run 3" exhaust afaikQuote:
Originally Posted by mocchi
^^ wut?
Hahaha, true AdrianQuote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
come on guys lets keep it someone serious :)
That would make a good logo for some people on here. :cool:
But ill put in a comment in just for Ben :p
My B loves the bigger system, but it runs a 3in and then into a twin system and i havnt tried a smaller system either as when i did the design, it all should have worked and it does, i was going to go 70mm but getting the piping wasnt easy, but saying that it also is pushing alot more revs then most of the B20 builds as the more it was revved, the more power it makes, but as Dave has said, the bore/stroke/comp/flow/cams/timing and header all come into this, as does its application and the powerband required from it.
As for gearing, well many seem to miss that and alot address it later on which is fair enough after they have just dropped alot on their build, but then wonder why for example some of the big K24 engines with massive power arnt much quicker down the 1/4 or through the traps. ;)
This is a very entertaining thread.
B20's are a waste of money. The old H22 is where its at. :p
(I'm just kidding people :wave:)
Nice oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
Let me know when you heading out to WSID
this thread has dies in the a**e!
guess we're all to busy building our B20's ;p
or busy looking for someone NOT trying to rip us off :(
I'm after some technical discussion but it seems no-one is willing to have a crack :(.
who much does a b20vtec weigh? very similar to a b18c i'd assume?
I'd say abit lighter.
Less material in the bore, no girdle, no breather, although you really are comparing a few kg. I havn't looked into it though - never saw the point, could be wrong.
quick question. anyone having gear crunches from 2nd to 3rd gear?. i know some b20 users have that problem. wondering if its normal or not or maybe it can be fixed?
try here: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/search.php
or try here: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=83
lol gear crunches??, whats having a b20 have to do with gear crunching
well thats what im trying to find out. because i know a few people with b20's have slight problem with shifting from 2nd to 3rd or anything to do with the 3rd gear there's a slight crunch.
well i don't think its the b20 problem then i guess then from your post above. maybe just a gearbox problem aye lol Thanks
Alot of B series gearboxes i've driven crunch 3rd, my old del sol does it sometimes too.
Honda B series box is the B series weak point. They are weak as piss in standard form.
i beg to differ, they are quite strong, just the people that use and abuse them dont know how to maintain them properly. people running 10 second hondas using standard box