Yeh but the crumple zones are terrible, which means more shock to the people in the car in a major accident. Plus there are no airbags etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by 80057
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Yeh but the crumple zones are terrible, which means more shock to the people in the car in a major accident. Plus there are no airbags etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by 80057
theres no doubt cars are safer and more luxurios these days
me..... it goes with the push rods!Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Hahaha, this is what crumple zones cause in minor accidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56127
No doubt just a bit of paint chipping for an old car!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
hehe true, just imagine all the force that those crumple zones are absorbing though :thumbsup: the same accident in a car where the paint just chips a bit would transfer heaps of shock to the driver getting a steering column through the head or a severe case of wiplash
i agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_7g
i saw a spankin new SS commodore yesterday and it looked alright.
Alright if u can handle shocking depreciation,poor engineering,poor build quality and be prepaired for lots of recalls!!!Good old aussie build quality.:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by mj3610
im sure those SS's are damn quick but 1770kg kerb weight just doesn't sound like fun :P
I wouldn't think it would worry the bogan's that drive these cars too much anyway! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_F
lol they say its the finest car australia has ever produced, when holden says that it worries me lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
anyone seen that billboard add thats got a picture of the new commodore and says Australia = 1, Germany = 0, cracks me up everytime.
better yet, the billboard add about the swift sport, "all show all go" lolllll.
i'd buy a euro anyday if they were rwd, they look sxc.
Yeah!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj3610
bwahaha more like Aus = 1, Germany = 50 lol
The germans/Italians make the best cars in the world, how can a copycat GM/Holden compare :p
Freakin great car by Holdens standards though, thats fa sure...
I think this latest commodore is their best effort yet for sure... i just find it funny that they are trying to position it above bmw etc. as you said.
on one of the tv ads a quote is read (probably out of context) "better than any bmw"
"price isn't an option but yes I'll have a VE commodore over that M6 please"
This concerns me most......Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_F
Have they even seen an M6? :love: :kiss2: :love: :kiss2: :love: :kiss2:
"price isn't an option but yes I'll have a VE commodore over that M6 please"[/QUOTE]
Yeah right,who are they kidding!!!
Recently got a spanking new euro... next car, maybe a straight 6 RWD....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Yeah right,who are they kidding!!![/quote]Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
hahahaha, that was my exact reaction too
do a sense an m3 ? *drools*Quote:
Originally Posted by tron07
^^ It had better be an M3. Even E36 is fine. If he meant Falcon straight 6 RWD... then FTL!
I dont see the point of upgrading if I were to buy a Falcon straight 6 RWD :P
i'll only buy another euro if it's a euro r
I'd buy the next SH-AWD turbo Euro. But that also depends if I prefer to have my Seven-replica instead as a weekend car and keep the current Euro as a daily.
After almost three years of driving the Euro, I've come to the conclusion that I will not buy another Euro again, not that I have anything against it... More like it's time for an upgrade which will be hard to find because the Euro pretty much have it all at a budget price...
Yeah, I hear ya. I have pretty much settled on getting an Evo IX.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroAccord13
I start my new job in January, so I should have a new car then. :)
Just wondering why Evo IX? Is it better than 350Z or RX-8? all about same price i saw.
Cheaper and better than 350Z, ~ same price and better than RX-8.Quote:
Originally Posted by ^__^ SM ^__^
I always wanted an Evo, plus they really hold their value. They are also said to be the best performance car on the market under $200k.
Plus it has charisma! :p
EVOIX, 350Z and RX-8. 3 totally concepts. It's like trying to compare an Euro to a WRX. The differences are totally well defined.
You want a hard raw car that compromises comfort and fuel economy for performance and handling, then go EVOIX.
You want a comfortable cruiser that can give a bootful and handle good when you want to, yet remaining fuel efficient, 350Z.
If you want a practical sporty car, and don't care about outright speed nor fuel consumption (or you just love rotaries), then RX-8.
Well actually, on claimed fuel consumption, Evo IX wins out of these 3 cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Evo IX - 10L/100kms
350Z - 11.8L/100kms
RX-8 - 12.6L/100kms
Hardly a fuel compromise @ 10L/100kms! I'm sure if you give all 3 a boot full, then economy goes out the window, esp the RX-8.
My view on the Evo IX is the interior is not as nice as the other two, but nothing wrong with it either.
I am also yet to drive one. Reviews say that the ride is real firm, but that doesn't worry me. Even the Euro could do with some firming up, and after riding in one with coilovers, I don't see what the big deal is.
I don't want nor do I expect it to be luxury either, otherwise I would just buy a BMW or Lexus.
I've driven a evo 7, and it is nuts, awesome grip and handling (better then my gen 3 crx), you guys are right about the interior quality, same plastics as a normal 20k lancer, but the seats are some of the best i've sat in for body support, but looks hell mean on the outside and i think thats what i like most about it. so if thats what u want go ahead, i love em to bits. but it aint to practical for me, i'd be worried to park it anywhere these days.
The rx8 has surprisingly alot of guts (i've driven a mates) tho my mate reckons he can only do 300k's on a full tank, he drives it pretty hard and like most rotors it sucks alot of juice when driven hard., the opposite back doors actually give good room to get in and out i think (not as good as a four door of course, but way better then a 2 door)
unfortunately i havent had the chance to drive a 350z, but the shape is awesome and with 200+kws it has to be fun.
I know the evos do go hard(i've driven a VII) but as a daily driver i don't think so,also i'd be paranoid about parking the thing anyware and the ins.!!!$$$.Maybe i'm getting old!!!!
EPA testing numbers do not reflect real life fuel consumption. Especially for a high output turbo car like the EVO. The testing method is more appropriate for NA piston engines. Under EPA testing methods, it was carried out in the most fuel efficient manneer as possible, that means running when the turbo was not spooling. I think EVOs consume about 14-16L/100km when not driven hard (but still making decent power).Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
BTW, RX-8's real life consumption is about 18L/100km!
Nah, I'd bet the EVO would disappear as soon as the owner stepped inside a restaurant for lunch if he was in a not so car-friendly neighbourhood. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
I WILL if someone sends me a PQ point or two :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Get EVO X instead of IX :D
Well, I put the quote forms in to my new employer (BHP) today, one for the Euro and one for the Evo IX. We will have to see what they come back with.
I can't wait to move back to civilisation!!!!!
You know I test drove a Libery B4 the other day and it made me realise just how bloody good the euro is as a day to day driver! Give me 140kw any day of a liberties 190kw lagggodelivery.
Im might even keep mine now if the hondata ever appears in the next month or so. I really do respect my ride.
Hahahahaha. I wouldn't be holding your breath. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
Have you driven the 3 litre Subi's before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntzu
I have a friend who has an Outback 3.0R. Nice car.
The previous model outback was slow, underpowered at low RPM, and had soft doughy handling. Plus the non-sculpted driver's seat gave me a numb butt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
The Subi 3 ltr RB is the go 180kw 6 sp AWD.It goes hard.But $57k???Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
i did the same thing, i knew the evo was outta my range but i wanted to see anyway, there was no discount on the evo at all, where as the euro got a nice 4 k discount thru my lease company, it ended up with a 16-17k difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
my brother in law has 3.0 liberty, and its quite good but not 15k better then a euroQuote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
my brother in law has 3.0 liberty, and its quite good but not 15k better then a euro[/QUOTE]
Thats what i think.
Use the "quote" button, Tony. :)
Haha.Keep forgetting.:oQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I've worked out the evo is only $100 a week before tax more than the Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by 80057
I think the discount is about $4k for both cars. As I said before, just have to wait and see what the quotes come back at.
My Euro was only costing me $200 a week after tax. That was for everything as you know.... fuel, maintenance, etc....
Over 2 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Isn't it usually 3 years?
Yes. Lease over 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Anything from 1 year to 5 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by euro77
The longer you lease it for, the cheaper the payments are,
and the cheaper the residual ammount is when the lease is up.
It just works out for what you have to pay each week and the residual ammount, 2 years just seems the best option (imo!).
yes I would. In manual trans.
What's all this Subaru slagging off going on in this thread? :p
The euro has great merits.. but I love my new Subaru Liberty GT B.Spec
It's not as comfortable on bumpy roads.. and it really makes you curse the NSW Government more.. fix.. our.. roads..
As a driver's car.. the GT is nicer.. as a luxury car, definately the Euro in terms of extra comfy gadgets and controls.
Just for reference about payments, I was a CHP for the Euro, 5 years, 30% residual. I'm on the same thing now for the GT, but payments wise i'm forking out roughly $150 or so more..
And i had a pretty decent deal compared to those who rant on about a 62K driveaway (ripped off to those suckers)
The GT spec B is a very nice car indeed. I test drove one the other day myself. I don't really like the look of them though, compared to the Euro it kinda looks dated imo (both inside and outside). The GT B has much better torque and strong acceleration from the turbo (though not quite Evo/WRX level). The gearbox isn't as good as the Euro's but the drive is very good even though it does feel a bit heavier around corners.Quote:
Originally Posted by VirIIx
The sport (SI?) setting knob is gimmicky i reckon and really isn't that practical (it feels like you have 1/2 an engine with the intelligent setting). Overall it's a great car imo. If i'm looking for a new car that would definitely be on my shopping list.
The inside isn't that bad actually. It's comparable to the Euro if not better IMO, the red lights at night are a bit conservative, but really nice on the eyes and the seats are more comfortable, especially the momo steering wheel, small and thick and a very good feeling. The controls are a bit... stiff and not as responsive as the euro or well layed out imo, but you get used to them hehe.. The look is probably the biggest thing. The headlights aren't much different, a bigger grille and the lights at the back are tidied up more than the MY04 models. Overall, it's an appearance that won't get much attention until people see the low scoop in the front which gets a lot of finger pointing as i drive aroundQuote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
The car is still fresh... 450km on the clock at the moment.. so i still can't go crazy.. but from my initial... testing.. it's a thrill, the torque is absolutely awesome. You can have 4 people in the car and it won't struggle like the euro, the car does feel slow.. but it's just the torque pulling it.. doesn't need to be revved up like the euro. I'm still adjusting to AWD drive as i've always been a FWD driver in my past 2 cars, so i know how to push to the limits in those sorts of drivetrains. Taking a corner.. reasonably fast is still a bit of a funny feeling and the car only feels heavy when you are trying to turn the steering wheel while it is motionless.Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
The gearbox is definately no where as nice as the Euro, or as durable, but it has a good smooth feeling to it and most of the gear changes so far have been smoother than in the euro.. though.. i haven't done it in the higher rpm's yet... :p
The power/torque from the car is enough for driving comfortably on the road, as you say, it's no where near that of an WRX/EVO but.. it has more than the average car, enough to hold it's ground and out out if needed. It's a small trade off considering the comfort and luxury you get inside, unlike a barebone lancer.. oh i mean Evo :] which you're really only paying for the engine and performance..
This is a bit controversial i think for a lot of people, and until you're actually using it - you don't know how good it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by sodaz
So far, the fuel economy when i'm in Intelligent mode and Sport mode is giving me fuel economy that i would normally have in my Euro if i was driving it moderately hard sometimes. I'm predicting 450-500km before my fuel up on the 64L tank.
In Intelligent mode, it's great to puddle along in peak traffic when it's bumper to bumper.. i wouldn't bother trying to overtake.. it just won't have the power but for peak traffic - perfect. Also great if you're a bit of an old fart and a sunday driver :p It brings the car down to 148kW and a bit lower torque that i can't remember.
In sport mode, which brings the car back up to it's maximum power/torque potential of 184kW/339nm. Of course, it's as responsive as the euro in this mode, normal everyday driving, enought to be driving happily, taking off lights, overtaking etc...
If you want real fun.. where the throttle is at max, just at ouch of the accelerator will bounce the needle unbeliavably high when taking off.. IMO it has TOO much power for the normal roads.. eg..60 or even 80.. as the car just pushes for more.. and if you can't deliver.. it's not worth using it as it will result in discomfort..
Each mode of course increases fuel guzzling potential by 2L each setting.. but.. it's great that you can control how much power you'd like the car to deliver.
I think i was showing Aaron the other day when i got it.. hehe.. that was in sport mode :] can't remember if I demonstrated the car in Intelligent mode..
Hey just here to offer my opinion.
Say if your in the 40-60 k category never before have you had so much choice. It all comes down to what you want out of a car? From what ive read (since i dont own a Euro) the Euro is a good, comfortable daily driver (which is what the majority of us use our cars for the majority of the time).
Im 16 but my parents have owned an array of different cars since they lease them. Ive found that even if its a good car, its nice to have "a change"
In the same segment, the Mazda 6 MPS will give you great performance and handling, as will the Liberty 3.0 Spec B or GT, although neither of them are that quick in a strait line, all of these three have good safety, comfortable and well equiped. I dunno but maybee if you wanted to get another Euro i would wait until the new one arrives, that just a personal thing, i know others wont mind if their car is outdated shortly after they buy it.
Considered the 350Z, RX-8 or S2000...i know that these are hard to find for 60k new but you could consider a near new one with low km? None of them would be as practical as your Euro but im sure they would be rewarding to drive.
Another possibilty is the Audi A4 1.8T?, again you could pick up a near new one, that has low km.
The IS250 is a beautiful car, and has got a nice 150kw V6, and is available in manual.
Then we get to the big cars. The Aurion is a nice package, with the top model (Prescara i think its spelt?) absolutely overflowing with features. Its 200kw V6 is good but compared to others (namely the commodore but more particularly, the falcon) it lacks torque.
Purely on features, the commodore wins hands down, and is very competative to any other car that is around 51-53k (Weyre talking the SS-V series here)
Safety: 6 Airbags, ESP
Performance: 270kw V8, 0-100 in (5.4 ive seen but wheels seems to get 5.7)
Features: Dual zone climate control, leather seats, 11 speaker audio system,...all the fruit.
Ok, as for the quality, yes we have seen two recalls, but hey, even Toyota have had a few recalls in the past couple of years. Theres no shortage of people in this forum who have had quality issuies with their Euro either. Speaking from personal experiance, you could own a commodore and never have a problem with it, or you could own one and have 3 or 4 problems, as for the most recent commodores weve owned, we've hadnt had one problem, just like the toyota's weve owned.
You can say the technology is old, but hey, it works and it gets you to 100 faster than any other car for 50k ;)
At the end of the day, you need to decide what you want from the car, and pick the best overall package that suits you.
Cheers.
JASO,
First let me congratulate you on your well constructed letter, particularly the ABSENCE of poor spelling and grammer (bearing in mind your young years). I am an old fart of 63 years and it is very refreshing to to read your letter.
Regarding the comparison between the Euro and the localy built products with respect to quallity the Euro wins hands down. Quallity is much more than just the frequency of breakdowns or recalls, the Euro just shouts out QUALLITY, the fit of the body panels, the lack of squeeks and rattles, the way the doors close etc.
I have had Commodors and Falcons for the past 20 years so I can speak with some experiance. The Euro is excelent value for money both quallity wise and performance. On a twisty road it will give my V8 Cobra a good run for its money (in a straight line it is a different story)
Once again Jaso, great letter.
I agree with Robert,
definately a great write up, and to the point, "At the end of the day, you need to decide what you want from the car, and pick the best overall package that suits you." is 100% correct.
Though, I find it troubling what you would personally define as a fast straight line car. Given that you referred to a Holden SSV V8 as being around 5.7s 0-100, I figure that's your benchmark for a fast straight line car.
Just to recycle some of your examples chosen,
The Mazda 6 MPS is quicker than my Liberty GT B.Spec (L-GT) on a straight line marginally, from what I've read from various articles.
The 350Z is pretty much around the same mark as the Mazda 6 MPS and L-GT.
The Liberty 3.0R is only around 7 seconds, like the S2000 and the RX-8 has had various reports... but I would personally sit it around 7 seconds if you were launching at a very high RPM, since i've personally seen a few against my Euro.
Audi 1.8T's are slower than the Audi 2.0T's and even the Quattro version which i looked at with many options to match the euro would have an OTR of around 72K - and that's pushing a damn good deal, that car only sits around around 7.2s 0-100, Lexus isn't any faster than a Euro, just a touch.
This is of course if you want to compare straightlines..
Pricing wise, You'd be able to secure any of those vehicles second hand for a very good price around 40K give or take.
Brand new at around 60K, a 350z and RX8 with Leather Pack. S2000 is just overpriced... IMO, same with the Lexus IS250, although they are quite a nice package.
But keep in mind.. it's not just straightline which determines everything.. you have handling and other various factors.
But we won't get into a big fight over which car is faster and better here etc, that's just childish.
All cars have their merits and it's up to the individual to decide which of those merits appeal to them. That's why there are people who drive Kia's and Hyuandai's and think that a Tiburon is crash hot :]
Each to their own..
Ohh, the irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT
Grammar is spelt with an a, not with an e.
Matt
Well guy's, I'm down in Perth now, I ended up getting the missus a Toyota corolla accent sport sedan.
I was going to get a civic, but two things put me off. First of all, it ain't no euro. By that I mean they don't even compare. The interior seems very cheap and the dash seems very strange.
The second (and the biggest) point is that they say that no civic's in the country till march. Guess Honda just lost $24k.
I got the corolla because the missus is working in the city, that means dodgy car parks......, and it is pretty well equipped for a cheap run around car. It's got toyota vtec too! She is happy, although she wanted another Euro, but she didn't want to part with the $38k or so.
On another note, I test drove an Evo IX yesterday...... OMFG!!!!!! I must have this car. I knew it would be good, but not this good. My bro and I with the salesman took it for a good strap, I got to flog it down the highway - went from 80km/h to [yfin edit stupid speed - be careful] in about 3 seconds. The whold car feels tight. If you think the euro is sporty, think again!!!!! Yeah I know, they are built for a different reason, but hey, the evo is a damn nice car.
Went and drove a commodore SS as well (bro wants one) and they don't even compare to the Evo. Bro is looking at an Evo now! You can't beat technology!!!
Anyways, just waiting for the quotes to come back in, hopefully I will have one parked in my driveway.
sounds awesome Type R. Keep us all informed
If you want performance, go for Evo9 of course. It's really addictive when turbo kicks in from low 3000rpm, rather than Euro's 6,250rpm VTEC kicks in. Evo9 offers you hardcore and attempting to always accelerate but will sacrifice smooth ride comfort. If you want comfort go for Euro. Though it's lot slower than Evo9, but it's still quick when VTEC kicks in :) Best of luck getting the car you want. Keep us informed :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
The problem with the EVO is every thief and his dog will be eying ur car, plus insurance is a lot more
Not such an easy car to steal with the sat tracking standard. Insurance isn't too bad either - I was quoted $1200 for the Evo.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
That depends on where the car was garaged, not all suburbs are the same. Where suburbs have high rate of criminal the insurance will be more expensive that the ones in low rate of criminal.
What was the excess on the evo?
Standard AAMI excess of $500. What Euro76 says about suburb risk applies to all cars - so I don't see what that has to do with the Evo specifically. My Euro costs me $780 or so in insurance. So for the same location the Evo costs $1200. Not as much difference as some people assume turbo cars cost in insurance. The biggest downside I see with the Evo is fit and finish given its price. No cruise control is also unforgiveable Mistsubishi.Quote:
Originally Posted by blueoval
Maybe yes maybe no, might think this may differ from one insurance company to others. Only my opinion though.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
I would agree with the fit and finish, the subi STI's seem to be a lot nicer inside. I also believe the STI's have cruise control standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
What I did like with the Mitsu is that 100km/h in 6th is at 2500rpm. Nice and economical.
i see the evo as basically a street legal rally car with a few creture comforts, the sti is more a street car with comfort with rally mechanicals. i think the evo would be fun for a weekender if you like a thrill and some track days, the subby alittle more of a everyday driver. the euro a pleasure to drive everyday, but i dont think match track work for the euro unless u put some money into it and then u would be losing the comforts that make it so good to drive everyday.
this weekend i drove my girls astra around as she had her parents dogs (i dont want hair in my euro) i used to think it a ok car to drive, but now after the euro its terrible. i guess you get used to things.
I love my 05 Milano Red Luxury and it gets plenty of attention with the black tints on red car so I don't think I will be getting rid of it any time soon however I did get the brochure book for the new Legend from my dealer out of curiousity, looks pretty nice, the car not the book ;)
Yeah red looks hot in Euro.It was my 2nd.choice.:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn2004
Hmm I had the same problem.. was gonna trade in the 03 Euro for 06 but couldn't do it coz;
A. ugly stock rims
B. point of a new car is a new car!
C. wanted a black euro (currently got silver) but didn't like the shade of beige on it still :(
So.. based on B... and persuasions from A & C, went hunting for a new car, looked at the VW Jetta as someone mentioned earlier as a similar standard of car but no go... in the end, still got the 03 Euro plus now, a VW Golf GTI instead... ;)
Sorry guys, call me a traitor... but I :love: my GTI!!!
GTi's rock, i love the blue tinge to the interior display, and the DSG GTi has launch control wow! unfortunately a pram and shopping dont fit in the boot and when i started looking waiting lists were still to long for me to bother even knowing something from VW didnt help. The jetta even tho it has the same engine doesnt have the raw edgy power delivery felt in the Gti, but the boot is even bigger then a commodores. but as a daily driver and with those in mind i got the euro and am very happy with fit finish and it can go it you give it some stick.
I won't call you a traitor, but could I get a ride in your GTI? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Miss_GTI
Yeah,me too!!:angel:Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
There is also a Golf R32 parked downstairs at my apartment. I'm so tempted to leave my number and ask for a test ride. :p
Yehhh... I know about the waiting list, but I got in with an order that was cancelled coz they didn't want to wait anymore but it was already on the ship on its way... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 80057
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Aww... u guys!!.. *blush*Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
I like the back end of the R32 but not enuf to want to spend $60k on a wittle car with 2 extra cylinders and shedding about 1sec off 0-100km/h whilst eating up more V-Power Racing! hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
True true, it's a car for people with "excess" money. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Miss_GTI
The seats and exhaust sound are nice too. Hehe...
Agreed. My wife was preferring me to get red but she was finally agreed to get black after "formal" discussions lol :D :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Thorn2004
Can I get in the line as well? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
You're about 940km too far south. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Euro76