Mugen Airbox

Im gonna have to go with aarong.

Seeing as the ducting isnt a pipe directly connected to intake at all, extreme angles wont retard performance. Because the intake isnt sucking from the ducting, extreme angles isnt going to come into play. It'd only effect the amount of air that is routed to the filter.

Yeah maybe the filter wont get as much cold air if you have like one thousand loops in the piping.

But it wont reduce the performance of the intake it self. Thats what i think anyway.

I've done it on my car, so has aarong..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sodaz

I don't think that true at all. It doesn't matter if it's enclosed or not. The sharp angle will create turbulence at the spot and that translates to less air traveling to the wheel well area. Ask anybody who studies CFD and they'll tell you the same thing. Think of air as water. Will you get more water in the wheel well shooting it at a 45 degree panel or a smooth curved scoop?

---

Air and water have different densities and viscosities. If you want to use the same analogy, you have to think of directing a jet of water INSIDE water! You are trying to compare water-in-air to air-in-air, and that's different.

And, the air in your wheel well is at atmospheric, it is not a vacuum when your filter is sucking in the air. So all you are doing is directing air into the cavity in hope that more "cold" air gets in.

BTW, CFD is assumes that you are in a single phase. Your water-in-air example is 2-phase and not usable with CFD :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xiang

Im gonna have to go with aarong.

Seeing as the ducting isnt a pipe directly connected to intake at all, extreme angles wont retard performance. Because the intake isnt sucking from the ducting, extreme angles isnt going to come into play. It'd only effect the amount of air that is routed to the filter.

Yeah maybe the filter wont get as much cold air if you have like one thousand loops in the piping.

But it wont reduce the performance of the intake it self. Thats what i think anyway.

I've done it on my car, so has aarong..

---

It has nothing to do with whether it's connected to the intake. A 45 degree panel won't be as efficient routing air to the front wheel well as a smooth curved scoop. The air particles cannot travel efficiently because of turbulence (think of a traffic jam) which means that the wheel well area will get less cool air in comparison. The intake is sucking air from that area. Cooler air = more power. The scoop provides a smooth, constant steam of cool air.

I'm sure the guys at Mugen had too much time on their hands and decided to mould a complicated scoop like that when a simple angular panel would've done the job. Nobody ever said a 45 degree panel will reduce the effectiveness of the intake. After all, it's still better than having nothing in place. All i'm saying is that it's definitely not as good as the scoop that comes with the intake.

I asked my gf who designs industrial scale HVAC systems for a living the same question and she told me the exact same thing. Seriously, ask someone who actually knows CFD and see what they say.

HVAC systems are enclosed. That's why they use smooth curves. Ask your gf if they use smooth curves to direct air into the intake port from unenclosed conditions. They probably don't even direct air in and just use an open funnel with a grill to keep pests out. :)

HVAC = Intake arm
Any part that is before the intake port does not have the equivalent flow of inside a HVAC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronng

HVAC systems are enclosed. That's why they use smooth curves. Ask your gf if they use smooth curves to direct air into the intake port from unenclosed conditions. They probably don't even direct air in and just use an open funnel with a grill to keep animals out. :)

---

Mate, i told you already. I asked her what she thought about the scoop and the 45 degree panel and she said that the panel will definitely not be as efficient for routing air to the wheel well area. Smooth curves allow air to travel smoother and the same thing applies whether it's enclosed or not.

She studied CFD for years and probably understands airflow a bit better than you and I. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sodaz

Mate, i told you already. I asked her what she thought about the scoop and the 45 degree panel and she said that the panel will definitely not be as efficient for routing air to the wheel well area. Smooth curves allow air to travel smoother and the same thing applies whether it's enclosed or not.

She studied CFD for years and probably understands airflow a bit better than you and I. :p

---

It's 45º like this: __/ which is more like 135º.
Make sure you clear it up with her that it's not the __\ 45º.

And I'm a chemical engineer. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronng

It's 45º like this: __/ which is more like 135º.
Make sure you clear it up with her that it's not the __\ 45º.

And I'm a chemical engineer. :)

---

Yeah that's exactly how i explained it to her. The other 45 degrees really wouldn't work. I might ask my other friend who's an automotive engineering major and see what he says too.

Seriously? Many years ago i did chemical engineering (only for 6 months) in uni and then i ended up doing computer science cause i couldn't stand the labs lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sodaz

Yeah that's exactly how i explained it to her. The other 45 degrees really wouldn't work. I might ask my other friend who's an automotive engineering major and see what he says too.

Seriously? Many years ago i did chemical engineering (only for 6 months) in uni and then i ended up doing computer science cause i couldn't stand the labs lol.

---

I've been doing chemical engineering for 9 years now. Finally finished it with 2 degrees. LOL. Anyway, I agree that the curved shape will flow better, but when you are using it for a purpose like this, sharp angles will work up to about 80-90% as good as the curved shape. It's all a matter of wanting to go all the way to DIY a curved shape just to gain that last 10-20%, which in real dyno performance gain end up to be about 0.001kW atw. For a chemical engineer, efficiency per dollar/time is what counts. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronng

I've been doing chemical engineering for 9 years now. Finally finished it with 2 degrees. LOL. Anyway, I agree that the curved shape will flow better, but when you are using it for a purpose like this, sharp angles will work up to about 80-90% as good as the curved shape. It's all a matter of wanting to go all the way to DIY a curved shape just to gain that last 10-20%, which in real dyno performance gain end up to be about 0.001kW atw. For a chemical engineer, efficiency per dollar/time is what counts. :)

---

Well done mate. It takes a lot of hard work from start to finish.

I think so too. The scoop will probably be around 10-20% more efficient but in terms in real world performance it might not translate to much. Unless you put the two side by side and have a dyno handy, it would be impossible to measure. But if i paid $1k for an intake, i would expect it to have the best design and of course, lots of bling! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sodaz

Well done mate. It takes a lot of hard work from start to finish.

I think so too. The scoop will probably be around 10-20% more efficient but in terms in real world performance it might not translate to much. Unless you put the two side by side and have a dyno handy, it would be impossible to measure. But if i paid $1k for an intake, i would expect it to have the best design and of course, lots of bling! ;)

---

Yeah, for 1K, it had better be smooth and made out of dry carbon. My sharp angle comment was for a ghetto DIY one. :)

Looks good.video/sound clip please.:p

wait...

so the air direct is made out of dry carbon too? I thought it was just the airbox lid that was carbon.

I think I might look into an air direct DIY hehe