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Waitaminutethere... you mean your car pulls to the left as well???? If it pulls in both directions, then it is a low profile tyre issue following imperfections in the road (no public road is perfect. Go to a track or airstrip for perfect roads). Most people who complain about pulling only get it in one direction, and that is clearly a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
Left is normal, it will drift a bit when road cambers, I understand this aaronng, but right is not within normal sorry. You make it sound as if I'm nit picking lol...Like I said in my previous posts my car is not as bad as before now.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
wish I posted when my car was at 4000-5000klm's.
Does anyone believe me :confused:
My Euro has 16" on them. It also follows road cambers left and right. Even grooves on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
I'm not denying the fact that you have a problem with the car pulling to the right. I'm just wondering if the drift to the left and right that you have is the same as tramlining that all Euros have as a sacrifice for better steering response.
No not tramlining issue here aaronng, definite problem with drifting to the right buddy. I enjoy the steering response actually, love the feel of the road. hehe...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Honda Australia replied to my complaint about the car pulling to the right.
They have issued a service notice, which my local service centre got; it's a checklist of procedures to follow in the event a car is pulling, which they followed.
Yes, Service Manager confirmed ... it pulled to one side (all the way to the other lane) in less than 6 sec @ 100Kph.
They rotated the tyres ... problem rectified (for now) @ 3300Klm.
However, I pointed out that they had already rotated the tyres @ 1000Klm, for exactly the same problem (it's on record) and asked if they would need another rotation in another 2000Klm?
The Service Manager replied that if so, it would confirm in his mind that it is the tyres and not a problem with the car.
It sounds stupid to me that you guys are blaming the tyres for the "drift".
Hi Type R PositiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
I'm not blaming the tyres, I'm utilising the Honda Service Notice through a Honda service department to find and rectify the problem.
When the tyres were new (no problem) at 500Klm's drifting to the right (problem), at 1000Klm's tyre's rotated (no problem), then at 2000Klm's it started drifting again (problem), at 3000Klm's tyres rotated (no problem) if it starts up again at 4000Klm's ... I'll be asking for new tyres.
"Must be the tyres" Honda Service Manager.
Do you have any other suggestions?
I believe you LXRYQuote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
Type R Positive,not sure why you seem so reluctant to believe the tyres could be at fault.These types of problems have occurred many times with different brands of tyres in my 30 years of experience as a mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
How many times do i have to say it.When i fit the 16" rims with the Dunlop non-directional tyres i have no steering problem with my car.As soon as i swap back to the Honda 17" rims with the Potenza Re040's my car drifts right.Lots of people on this forum are running 17" and 18" rims with other tyres and not getting the problem.You dont have to be Einstein to work it out.
I think what LXRY meant with his car drifting to both left and right is exactly what I said a few pages ago.
1) If road cambers left, car drifts to left slightly as 'normal', or sometimes not at all despite the uneven road.
2) If road is straight and flat, the car sometimes track straight, sometimes drifts right.
3) If road cambers to the right, then the car pulls to the right very HARD.
Just say in condition 1, the road cambers at 10 degrees to left - the car will drift left only slightly.
But if it now cambers at 10 degrees to the right, just exactly opposite to above condition - the car will drift very very hard to the right. So the effect isn't proportional.
Anyway, yes the Bridgestone RE040's don't have that anti-directional tread on the outer blocks, its pretty much one directional everywhere, so that reason can't explain why it pulls to the right.
I'll never put a tyre like that RE030 on my car btw!
I'll never buy one of those Goodyear Eagle GS-D3s either, coz with that kind of aero tread, when it runs down a bit the car wants to skate everywhere in the wet. Nearly got killed by them a few times, even though they're tops when brand new...
****************
I think that the Honda Service or Honda Australia might be wrong to blame it on the tyres if you need to rotate them continuously. Because, most people's LUXURYs don't drift at the beginning, but only does so after a few thousand kms. Then you rotate them front and rear, and the problem goes away for the time being.
What does this say? It means, the front and rear tyres are geometrically wearing differently. This sounds more like the car caused the tyres to wear this way rather than the other way around.
The other thing - 16" tyres NOT drifting doesn't mean the problem isn't there. The fact that 16" have higher profile and softer tyre sidewalls just means they're not wearing out in the same manner that the 17's RE040's do, because the tyre contact patch on the 16" can adapt perpendicularly to the road more easily.
3rdly, most people on this forum with OTHER 17" and 18" tyres are using aftermarket suspension of springs & shocks or coilovers, etc. You can't compare those with a car still on the stock suspension and tyres package!
You guy's with the "problem", have you had lazer allignment?Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
Maybe they set the car to track straight on Aussie cambered roads?Quote:
Originally Posted by Omotesando
This is why I believe it is an allignment issue.
The Honda Service Centre suggested that there is no need for a laser alignment because after the tyres have been rotated the car drives straight (within tollerance) nothing wrong with the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
"Independent" reviews for the RE040 are not looking good.....
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=Potenza+RE040
http://www.1010tires.com/tirereviews...e_reviews.html
Well done cgspot good find buddy I read all the reviews shocking actually :thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
What where these guys doing when they chose these tyres (Rep from bridgestone and Honda getting plastered on SAKI lol)
Yep no need for alignment alright they made that very clear to me aswell (stupid fool I went and got one as well doh)
I just read these reviews.Interesting reading.I don't think 1 person gives the RE040s a good rap.Go to Honda Aust.armed with this info.and be definite.You want 4X new tyres(not RE040s of course)nothing less.Tell them they have 14 days to resolve the matter,if it's not resolved in this time frame tell them that you'll be taking the matter to Dept.Fair Trading.(i'm not sure what it is in Vic.).Be polite but PERSISTENT.Don't give in!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
I think it's pretty conclusive from the findings here that the issue is with the 17" RE040 Tyres.
For those who have had their wheels alignment in trying to resolve the drift-to-the-right issue with 17" RE040 Tyres, good luck in trying to get them back into original spec which were most likely to be fine.
Honda Australia need to issue a safety recall of these tyres and swap them over to something that is tested to be non-right-drifiting... maybe try something like Yokohama C-Drive. How do we instigate this action?
Edit: if they don't want to change it over... it may be worthwhile just doing it ourself for our own safety sake.
****COPIED FROM ONE OF THE REVIEWS*******
"Take a wild guess - Not only are these the worst tires to drive in the snow, but the suck even while the car is parked. I parked my RX8 on my driveway (moderate downhill grade) with e-brake and in reverse. I later found my car in the lot behind my apartment 40 feet away from its orignal placement. Luckily, the tires are so bad the it slid perfectly straight and narrowly missed my apartment."
*************************
Can I ask - what the hell does the above have to do with the tyres? It is completely irrelevant to the tyre's performance lol.
Anyway, I'm actually not convinced that this is a problem with the 17" RE040 tyres.
Show me someone who has switched from these 225/45/17s RE040's into something the same or similar size from another company, on stock suspension, which has gotten rid of the problem first.
As I already said - initially there is no drifting problem, until you wear down the tyres. 2ndly, when you rotate them, the problem goes away for the time being until a few thousand kms later.
Forgot to say earlier that the biggest difference between 17" and 16" tyres is the contact patch shape, where it is wider on the 17" and as such, if there are imbalances on how the vehicle is tracking, then uneven tyre wear will be more exhibited on the bigger tyres. Plus the tramlining itself doesn't help it!
On the Euro, the biggest difference between the 16" and 17" OEM tyres are the thread and compound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omotesando
I changed the OEM 17s for Conti sport Contact 2s from brand new.same size,profile(225/45/17).Admittedly i've lowered my car but i can't see what diff. this would make if anything it could make the pulling/drifting more pronounced!!!I still reckon it's the tyres.Just my opinion!PS i've now done 6800ks.NO drifting/pulling at all and i haven't rotated the wheels since i had the Conti's put on from new.
Except you haven't been able to explain how the difference in thread and compound have contributed to the car drifting.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Whereas I've looking at it from the tyre dimensional differences which might be able to explain why the effect is more apparent on the stock 17" tyres more than on the 16" tyres.
As I said, show me someone who has changed the 17" RE040's to something completely different but still 17", and on completely stock suspension and not lowered (via whatever method).
LOL, I don't need to explain. Some tyres drift. It's common sense because small design flaws turn up magnified when on a rotating system. I guess you don't really use brands that are 2nd/3rd tier. But when you do, you'll realise how wide the difference between good and poor tyres can be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omotesando
If that is the case, every other brand of 17" tyres when put on the euro should drift more than the stock 16". But that's not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omotesando
tony1234 did that. He changed to Continentals the day after he picked up his car. His suspension mods were carried out a week later. In between, he said he did not have any pulling. There are at least 2 Euro Sport owners complaining of the pull since day 1. (clowdz and Woogler).Quote:
Originally Posted by Omotesando
We'll just have to wait until those complaining of the pull switch to different tyres.
Exactly aaron.Why is it that a car with OEM 17s drifts/pulls and when OEM 16s are put on it doesn't????Either cgspot or LXRY did this i think.it's GOT to be the tyres.What else can it be?Alignment seem to have been ruled out by the service dept.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ght=coil+overs
While searching, I came across this! Might just be the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pfffffft. And you guys are blaming your tyres............
So why doesn't 16" have this issue? :)
*waits for someone to change their RE040 to something else.... (without doing other wheels related mods) *
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Well I had it on the 16" but perhaps that was a totally different issue as it was to the LEFT. I have never had the RE040. I suspect the guys with the drift to the right are experiencing something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by V205
Please read that thread properly on why the car is lower 1cm on the driver's side. It's called corner balancing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Are you sure it's balanced? Have you checked?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
As I said before, please read the threads that you link to. It's stated in there that Best Motoring DVD confirmed that Honda designs the stock suspension height using corner balancing with 1 person in the driver's seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
So if you are heavier than the standard Jap, your car veers left. Hahahah!Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Lay off the drugs. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Your car does not veer left because you are heavier than what Honda expected.
You could have someone sitting in the rear on the right and no on in the front passenger seat, and your car still handles like normal.
Since the tyres were rotated @3300Klm the car has not been pulling to the right (now 4100Klm). However, the wheels have spun under moderate accelleration, the ride is Hard and both front doors have been buzzzing and rattling like crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
In looking through the other threds the one on tyre pressure took my interest so I decided to check the tyre pressure on mine... Cold 44psi ... This disturbed me somewhat! so I reduced it to a standard 36psi which has given me better traction and a smoother ride (The buzzing and rattling is still there) BUT, the drift to the right HAS RETURNED.
Thats right 44psi no drift to the right ... 36psi strong drift/pull to the right.
I have now split the difference and am running the fronts 40psi & backs 38psi and have better grip, a little bit of drift to the right and still have the buzzing and rattling. I'm trying this for a few hundred Klm's then I'll take this info back to the service department.
By the way; standard 17" rims NO modifications.
Can't help with the drifting/pulling(apart from changing the Bridgestones to a better tyre)but re: the rattling doors 1 of the guys posted a link that will be of int.to you.It's www.acuraworld.com/tsb.html Click on TSX.It makes for int.reading!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
Firstly the majority of us on the RE040's don't actually pull to one side when the car is new. Obviously there are variations and exceptions, such as alignment problems from stock, but the general statistics show that:Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
1) People's Euro Lux on RE040 start pulling more and more to the right only after a few thousand kms, even if alignment seems normal.
2) If tyres are rotated at service, the drifting disappears for the time being, until a little bit later it resurfaces. When I say rotated, I mean the tyres and wheels are rotated Front to Back, not Left to Right. For some reason, I think some Euro Lux owners didn't get this, going by how some people responded.
3) Tony1234 switching to NEW Continentals for 1 week will fall under condition (1), so I do not expect his car to pull to the side just as yet, since those are brand new tyres. Especially when he barely waited 1 week and changed suspension parts. Look I agree with you AARONNG, it could go eitherway, I'm not trying to be stubborn but just trying to be scientific about it. :)
4thly, as I've mentioned before but I think people didn't actually catch my drift (pun intended!) - 17" tyres are KNOWN and suppose to track and tramline more than 16" tyres. There are two folds to this. That's because it has low profile, so the contact patch is more of a horizontal shape compared to a higher profile tyre. And also, the 225mm 17" tyre is wider by default than the 16" tyre. As such it tends to track the road where the car's suspension or the road wants it to go more, thereby exercerbating any underlying drift problems. The fact that the RE040's are known to be a tramlining bastard doesn't help this. :o
The thing is - if the RE040's has a major design fault that's causing the car to drift 'right', then this should be anticipated by its irregular tyre pattern. But it cannot be, as its rather symmetrical. 2ndly, the RE040 is used extensively on many other cars, such as on the Beamers, Subarus, etc, and their respective owners don't seem to complain of the same tyre drifting to the right as the Euro owners do. All they complain about is tramlining, which is a separate issue (but could be related, read below).
The other dead giveaway clue to consider, and as I've mentioned previously, if swapping the tyres makes the problem go away 'for a short period', it eliminates the possibility that its the tyre design or tyre construction which is making the car drift- in fact, it seems to suggest that the front tyres are wearing differently to the rears.
All in all with everything considered, it seems like due to the tramlining problem with the RE040 tyres, but where the source of the problem actually lies with car balance or suspension problems, the Euro combined with the RE040 is a bad combo and is having problems. However, working it out logically, it does suggest that the RE040 is the secondary problem that's exaggerating the primary problem with the car's design, rather than the other way around! :angel:
I now have 7500ks. on my Conti tyres.They haven;t been balanced,rotated and the car hasn't had an alignment since the tyre change(done at 70ks) and lowering(done at(1200ks.ithink!)NO drifting/pulling left/right NOTHING.It's got to be those crap tyres they put on the car,they mustn't suit the Euro.If i had the problem i'd be telling Honda i want replacement tyres,no ifs no buts.this is crap rotating them every 1-2000ks.GO for it,be persistent,ie.nag and pester the shite out of them and don't take that crap re:rotating them every 2000ks.or whatever.That's just a band-aid solution.Just my 2c worth!!!
My RX-8 uses the RE-040 stock from factory. So far it has been running straight, so it might not be the tyres (at least not entirely attributed to just the tyres) that's causing the drift.
I saw this in the car bible http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html, scroll down to the "Coloured dots and stripes - whats that all about?" section and see the explanation about where the colour stripes should be and the tendency for the car to drift that way if all the colour stripes are on that side. maybe it has something to do with this? a long shot though. maybe if your tyres still have these stripes, have a look at them.
It must be combo of RE 040 and Euro.The car doesn't"like" these tyres.:confused:
Getting my car back tommorrow took it to a professional tracking place ( Track-Right), first they put it up on there alignment machines rear was out.....this is just after I've recently been to Bob Janes for a wheel alignment mind you.
They checked the car from top to bottom (measured it all up) nothing wrong with the car itself according to them. They test drove it after the alignment and was not pulling at all (according to them, not me yet).
Had a talk about the tyres, told me that could possibly be the uni-directional tyres. According to them the tyres have the belt on one side from manufacturing causing them to drift (refer to attachment, taken from http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html thanks to euro77 for the link..).
They will test drive it again tommorrow morning when the tyres cold just in case. Also adviced me to ask for new tyres if it persists, not UNI-DIRECTIONAL.
If they get enough complaints they have no choice but to do this, according to them...push push they say, this I agree with aswell. It's not our fault that they chose the wrong tyres, they should of trialed the tyres with the car. If you ask me heads have to roll at Honda, someone F*@!ed up. Still a safety issue aswell, IMO.
Will report again tomorrow
Hmmm, thanks for the post Lxry. You might remember I posted a while ago that I got my drift to stop but I did a few things at the same time (suspension, strut, laser align, tyres) so not sure what fixed it?
Well you might be interested to know that I fitted non-directional tyres... It wasn't a conscious thing - it was just a good deal on that particular make and tyre.
By the way, I think you are going to have problems getting the dealer to do anything if an independent place says the car tracks straight. Let us know how it goes with the cold tyres. :thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
There should not be any problems with Uni-directional or Directional tyres, honestly. Most if not all high performance tyres are Uni-directional.
2ndly, the RE040 has TWIN steel belts, that is the design of the Potenzas. So it is wrong to suggest its the belt on one side that contributes it drifting to one side. As much as I respect Trutrack and their guys, I wonder if they actually know about this tyre.:D
If there is a problem with an OEM tyre that Honda put on their cars then Honda have to honour any warranty issues that may occur.It's the same with the battery,while they(Honda)don't manufacture these(tyres and batteries)these items are covered on a "pro rata" basis meaning that with say tyres,if there is 50% tread left then 50% is paid for by Honda and 50% by the customer.You make a good point yfin.I, like you have fitted non-directional tyres(continentals) and i don't have the problem.It's likely directional tyres are to blame,the RE 040s are maybe worse re:pulling/drifting than other directional tyres on the Euro!!!:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
You are right they are TWIN belted....hmmm. Just checked their siteQuote:
Originally Posted by Omotesando
I agree with you 100%. But how is LXRY going to ever get help from the dealer or Honda Australia - if his alignment specialists say the car tracks straight? What you need is someone independent (and of reputable experience) who will say "this car is not tracking correctly" and be prepared to say so if Honda or a dealer calls them. LXRY hasn't got that yet so his case is going to be difficult to deal with under warranty.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
After coming back from the service centre my drift to the right was gone... however, the feel of the cars ride was rough and I noticed the tyre pressure had been reset to 44psi cold.
The SEA-Q3 inside the door states 225/45R17 91W to be 32/30psi.
I dropped the tyre pressure down to 32 and 'Wham' the drift to the right came back, really bad. Bring it back up to 42 and its gone.
How could it not be the tyres?
I'm not happy about running the tyres at 42 let alone 44 so I'm in a bind ... is it safe to continue to run the tyres at 42psi or should I push for new tyres?
(Only 4500Klms on the clock - no modifications)
At least it's narrowed the problem down to the tyres.If the alignment specialist is prepared to state that the car is tracking straight then Honda has to look at replacing the tyres and LXRY has to contribute depending on how much tread is left.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Try 38psi all round.I run that in mine,no problems.I've got 7600ks.on mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
At 38psi the drift to the right is still noticableQuote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
Is it less noticable at 38psi as opposed to 32psi.?Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
Yes .. but its still there, 40psi is about where it stops drifting into the next lane after 6 sec @ 100K, but is 40psi (cold) a safe pressure when the recommended is 32psi, especially in light of the fact that tyre pressure increases as it gets hotter?Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
Bridgestone say not to inflate over 40psi http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/...e/pressure.asp
40psi should be allright but i wouldn't want to go higher!I was told by the guys that did my tyres(Tynan tyres.they're division of Tynan-Honda dealer in Sydney sth.) that 32 is too low.The tyres wear on the outsides.should be at least 36psi!!!!I'd whinge to Honda,annoy the crap out of them.This is all BS they're giving you.It's the tyres,what more evidence do they need!Take them to Fair Trading that should prod them into action!:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
Ive been running my RE040's at 38psi all round and the drift is still there. Ive dropped my rears to 36psi to try and soften up the ride a little.Fortunately or unfortunately this hasnt made the drift better or worse.Im going to check again on my next long run if the drift is any less when the tyres warm up and increase pressure.I think from memory its not quite as bad.
Im starting to think that this problem is a combination of the uni-directional tyres and the design of the Euro front end.In particular,the apparently very steep SAI angle of the strut assembly.
I also notice that Euros run what appears to be a fair amount of positive camber on the front wheels.This in conjunction with the SAI angle, and perhaps too much negative (or positive) castor( i always get confused with castor on FWD's) would give the Euro nice light and responsive steering 'feel',but would also allow the car to self steer off line more easily.I would be curious to know what the Camber and Castor settings are set at from factory.....does anyone know for sure what they are?
I reckon it's the uni-directional tyres.(mainly the RE 040s)They just don't seem to suit the Euro!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by avid
I think most of us who are actually experiencing this problem agree with you Tony....the tyres dont suit the Euro.But what we are looking for are solid technical reasons WHY they dont work with the Euro.
All you can do is go to dealer with your car drifting,ask them to put tyres and rims off another car(maybe demo)or even better a new one,if it doesn't drift(which it shouldn't do) it's the tyres.What more proof do they need!!!Then you want tyres replaced on a "pro rata" basis.Nothing less,none of this tyre rotation crap.As for technical reasons how is the average owner going to do that.It's obvious,current tyres =drifting,new ones =no drifting.Like i said before annoy the crap out of them(dealer and Honda).They'll take action just to get rid of you!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by avid
My car is STILL DRIFTING, no difference what so ever (steering wheel still not straight aswell, another alignment for nothing :( )
BUT WAIT......
Sorry everyone havn't got back on this matter....Have searched high and low for a solution, and finally I HAVE FOUND IT.....After all the F*$^ING around!!!!!
Spoke to a bridgestone dealer today just dropped in for the sake of it cause I was pissed off after speaking to someone from customer relations Honda (got now where with the phone call) didn't think it would help but I was desperate....
I asked the manager of the Bridgestone dealer if they had any problems with the RE040, and whether they where a good tyre? His response to me was that of course they where, why wouldn't they be. My response to him was that Honda where blaming the RE040 on the drifting problem that where a SHIT tyre, he casually replied "If they where SHIT why are they using RE040's then?" He was abit upset as I set a challenge to him....but wait....He casually picked up the phone while still talking to me confidently called head office expecting them to side with him.....He asked "is there any problems with drifting on the RE040" so confidently, they said "NO" untill he mentioned my car was a euro...........Then they replied "YES" they said there WAS a problem with the euros drifting with there RE040 that where fitted from JAPAN. This poor bloke and myself where shocked after all that F*%$@ING around it was that easy.
Out he came to inspect the tyres....Apparently the DOT (an imprint on the tyre with the manufacturing date was on the wrong side....e.g. the dot or stamp should be facing on the outside of the tyres. My car on the left hand side they where on the outside, BUT on the right hand side they where NOT, they where on the inside of the tyre, being uni directional this is a problem as you can't rotate tyres. Apparently they had done a recall before the car was released....Hmmm makes me think I bought mine in January. Everywhere I went they only had 2005 models except at this dealer where I bought my car, not many of them around according to the dealer i bought it from. January models came with 5 year warranty aswell...hmmmmhow many euro's in this forum bought in January? Sh*t for all I know the dot could be the same on all re040's not sure about this going by what he told me.
I will report on the date of manufacturing
or dot Tommorrow.
Now after all this info thanks to this gentlemen from bridgestone dealer I then called my dealership to vent my anger....they still denied it, which didnt surprise me.
The person he spoke to on the phone was a Steve Gleeson from head office Bridgestone Australia.
Tommorrow I will call Stave Gleeson personally again to confirm the problem and explain that it is there best interest to chase the matter up as the reputation of there tyre is at stake, and after that I will call Honda Customer
Relations again with this new info....
I suggest everyone check there tyres to see which side the dots are and please report back to this thread....
Even call Steve Gleeson at Bridgestone Australia because I am tommorow, first thing and Honda Customer Relations as well.
I would appreciate the support everyone as one person they wont listen it takes many too stir the pot on this matter, and I will be reporting the issue to Vic-Roads as a safety issue aswell.
They have no choice but to listen If we all call ppl...I'm sure we all love Honda especially our Euro's, but this is not on, fair is fair. Not our fault we shouldn't have to chase shit like this up, thats why I bought a new car with new car warranty ( I'm repeating my self I know, sorry)
The number for
Honda Customer Relations 1800 804 954
Bridgestone Australia 08206 0200 (Sth Aust.) Steve Gleeson
couldn't find a freecall number sorry
Can't wait for tommorow....HeHe
P.S Aaronng this is going back to when you brought up that theory of yours you brought up, hehe...you where on the right track!!
Thanks for the update LXRY. What you say is very interesting and it may well be that Bridgestone and Honda are well aware of the issue but are simply discussing (read fighting) over who will pay for any defect or error.
Just to clarify a few things though - when you say there was a recall, was that by Bridgestone or by Honda? Honda hasn't recalled anything regarding tyres.
I know what you are saying regarding these dots, I have seen them for myself - but what about the direction stamp on the tyre? If that was showing the wrong direction someone would have picked it up a long time ago.
According to this guy and his conversation with Mr Gleeson the recall was done before the car was released, and about the dot not sure if it is about which direction the dot should be but I think they are refering to the dot needing to be on the outside of the tyre (facing outside) not on the inside of the tyre, not exactly sure of this, will clarify this tommorow, after the phone call with Mr Gleeson (Bridgestone Aust.)Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
I had a quick look at my tyres just now. The only difference I can see is right next to where the characters "DOT" are on the tyre.. On the right side of my car (i.e. Drivers Side) the front and rear tyres have the code "DAJ0306". On the left side this code is not there. Is this what you are referring to? As this is the only difference I can see between the tyres on the left and the right. Also, my car does drift to the right.
I'd be all for helping you guys with the drifting/pulling problem but i changed my tyres to Contisport contact 2s at 70 ks.I've never liked Bridgestones.This is the main reason i swapped them.
Sorry everyone but it seems that the guy who spoke to Mr Gleeson from the Bridgestone dealer was WRONG
Just got off the phone with him personally. This guy is a legend....seems NO-RECALL...what the guy meant by recall was that a few cars maybe more than a few not sure of this, where having this problem (drifting) from 0klm's...they couldn't give the cars to the customers like this obviously. The tyres where sent to them for inspection...they where inspected I think even sent back to Japan, came back nothing wrong with the tyres. It seems that the tyres on euro's where specially engineered for the car (wind tunnel).
Now according to Mr Gleeson (euro owner himself, 2005 lxry with 17" RE040 OEM) they are the same tyres as he has on his 2005 model, which don't have this problem...seems like only 2006 models only, according to him.
Told him what they had done to my car (adjusted or bent the K-frame) to absorb the drift, said straight away this was only a band aid solution, is not fixing the problem, just causing another one.
What he meant by DOT was when they came in for inspection, thought that might have been the same batch with the dot which was a coloured marking which comes off whithin a few washes....not the dot I was refering to in my previous thread SORRY :(
He thinks that this might be a camber, toe issue....as the camber cannot be adjusted so they adjust the K-Frame, this poses other problems like my steering wheel not straight for example, or even if the tyres where to be changed, what then does the frame have to be adjusted to suit new tyres....?
He told me how they even rotated the tyres with the arrow facing the other way (this should have made the tyres drift to the left according to him, if it where the tyres)
So I am back to the drawing board, damn I was excited...
He told me that Honda even if they knew what it was they wouldn't tell me anyway, everything hush -hush there apparently :zip: .
So now according to him being a witness of course, there is a problem with the car drifting, yah ;) .
Sorry once again...If anyone wants to speak to him this is his number 03 93692922 Mr Gleeson, just tell him your from the Ozhonda forum, there to help !!
Anyone want to talk about 'class action' yet??
Let me indulge this hypothetical for a moment... ;) Assuming you can even get a class together - say 50 people - you will need to be prepared for legals of at least $100,000 as a group (so $2000 each )(my estimate) and the chance of recovering this even with a successful claim is questionable. There is also very little credible evidence of what is causing this (so far) - so you have just as much chance of losing which means more costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by avid
My suggestion is to put up with this until the tyres have done 20,000 clicks (which isn't long for most drivers) and then swap the tyres. Total cost $800-1000. Or if your tyres are relatively new you could trade them in or sell them on ebay and cut your losses.
I feel for you guys with this problem, but be realistic. Approaching this from a public relations stand point will be far more effective than litigation.
This is ridiculous.there's obviously a problem here.I think all of you should take the matter to Fair Trading(in NSW)or relevant govt.body in your state.All of you should lodge complaints on the same day!Quote:
Originally Posted by avid
Don't overwhelm the public service. They are struggling as it is.. lol :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
Mmmm.You've got a point there!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
If this was me and I had no joy from the dealer and the national Honda customer service people, I would drive down to Honda HQ in Melbourne and sit in the reception until they let me speak to a senior exec about the problem. Make it a weekly visit if I had to.
It is somewhat similar to the motives of a psycho madman - but that would work to my advantage in getting results :D
Or you could try this--- this also can be effective but is further down the mad man path... Once you put stickers on your car - the gloves are off and Today Tonight take interest. lol
http://www.myaudittsucks.com/myLemonTT3.jpg
http://www.myaudittsucks.com/
Pardon me if I'm reading something wrong as I'm flat out with work even at midnight :(
But anyway, it still sounds like Bridgestone is blaming Honda and Honda is blaming Bridgestone after what LXRY has gone thru, back and forth with many suggestions, accusations, clarifications and his alignment with Trutrack :o .
Well Bridgestone has tested the RE040 tyres and said they're okay, as they're also okay on numerous other car models. (Although I heard the same model number of 'tyre' could have slight variations for different cars?)
The 17" tyre packages are only used from 2005 and also the 2006 Lux and Sports models right? It definitely happens on many 2005s too, not only 2006, just to clarify.
I would suggest what YFIN has said. Change the tyres when they're worn enough or sell it, then get different tyres altogether. Although I also envision that if the problem still persists, it will still be hard to sue or complain to Honda - because at that time, they'll be blaming the problem on Michelin or Continental or Kumho or whoever - just because you're no longer using the RE040s. Hmmm... its never ending.
Does anyone think - Bridgestone will be willing to help us, by 'exchanging' the tyres on one of our Euros with a different 17" tyre, say a G-III, for testing for say 1 month? Even if they're used? Or say we approach Kumho or Continental or Michelin (HONDA F1 used them afterall) and they might be interested in helping us solve the problem? Afterall if they can help, they'll get good rep from us and drive more sales.
Also don't forget, Bob Jane T-Mart can allow the customer to put on new tyres, then if they don't feel comfortable with them, get you another set until you're happy. I don't believe you can get a full cash refund apart from exchange, without restocking charges though.
Having said all that, luckily my problem isn't bad at all. Its barely noticeable. But I would say something needs to be done ASAP, some complains to a 3rd party (TV program, Consumer Concil) will be a good start. :D
Yeah,just "stirrin' the pot" I know Honda are reading this site.Just want to give 'em something to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Look at the facts.You buy a new car,speedo reading is 2-3-4000kms.or whatever.car drifts/pulls.Take car to dealer,they rotate tyres,problem goes away.1-2000kms its back same again then align,same again.This is crap.you(the customer) want it fixed.You don't want all this BS, eg:it's not the tyres,count for 6 secs.till it drifts into opp.lane,you're imagining it this is all sh*t.It's time to take the gloves off.No more buck passing.You guys want it FIXED.:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Omotesando
The veering to the right is re-surfacing for my car @ approx 4900Klms. It's getting to the stage where I'm getting so frustrated that I'll just have to take it in again ... When I get some time, soon, hopefully...Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
This time ... I'll be hitting them up for five new tyres.
Not happy
Perplexed
Confused
Frustrated
Yes agree with that completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
To be honest I don't care whether it is the tyres or the car which is doing it, or BOTH. All I'm trying to work out is how to fix the damn problem just because honda isn't capable of fixing it.
Afterall, when you purchase a finished product, say a DELL/TOSHIBA/APPLE/IBM or even SONY VAIO laptop, if there is a problem with the parts such as the battery which is provided by 3rd parties - no matter what, the original manufacturer is still liable for the fix and recall. It is then their duty to recover those costs from the 'parts/tyres' manufacturer. And if it really is Honda's design fault, then the same applies, Honda is responsible. So ultimately Mr H. is the one we talk to.
Anyway, CGSPOT - sorry to hear about that. Unfortunately you guessed right that it needed to be swapped again after 2000ks (not even that from what you wrote). But contrary to what that manager said, I don't really think that puts the blame on the tyres at all, but quite the contrary - especially if they worked for a period before becoming troubling you again - sounds like some geometry is out instead. But anyway, I stand corrected if eitherway could be proven!:D
Well @ 5310 Klms I took the car in and asked for 5 new tyres ... NO GO!Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
However they did conduct Steps 9 and 10 of Service News SN003T06.
Step 9 Carry out 4 wheel alignment and check front cambers.
Result = Left 0.1 and Right 0.7
They loosened off all of the front subframe bolts and pryed the subframe (left or right) and pushed it as far forward as possible to attain as much castor as possible. Then making sure the steering wheel was straight they set the front and rear toe to maximum toe in.
Step 10 Test drive
Well ... I don't think it has fully rectified the issue.
I don't know if these adjustments will cause any other issues.
Will need some time to test it at speed.
If it is not ok, I'll be back .... step 16 in the process is to call the technical department to get authorization to replace bad tyres, so if I have to go through to step 16 I will.
Unbelievable.I can't print what i think.:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
Pheww, this problem is worrying. I would like to buy a Euro luxury but I am in doubt now. May be I should buy the standard euro.
Does anyone know whether honda has changed the standard tyre (Bridgestone RE040) for euro luxury built later this year? (eg. built in the last quarter of 2006). Or does honda still stick to Bridgestone RE040?
Does anyone who bought the euro luxury recently still get this problem? (or Honda has rectified this)
Thanks.
Don't let that put you off buying the lux.If you want to be extra carefull just change the tyres from new to another brand(i did this and 8700kms.later no problems).It'll cost you approx $100-$150.Well worth it considering the problems some of the guys on this site are having.Just my opinion!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty
Any updates on your issue LXRY?Quote:
Originally Posted by LXRY
Have you had tyres replaced?
If a lot of you are still not happy (after you did everything in your power), I think going to the media will be your best shot.
At least HA will give it serious attention.
My dealer has finally agreed to replace the two front tyres.
I see this as a sign that the tyres are at fault.
As the car is only 3 months new, 5500Klms, and I've had the problem from day one, I'm not sure if I should accept just two tyres or push for 5 tyres.
Whaddaayareckon?
Ask them to swap the back wheels to the front again and tell them if it still pulls(which it will), then you want them replaced too.Remember Kel they were originally on the front before the Dealership rotated them to try and fix the drift initially.
But if it were me, i would be pressuring them for 5 new non directional tyres,and another brand of tyre.
If they only want to do 4 new RE040 replacements i would then insist on the existing spare being put on the front and test running the car to see if it causes a problem.If it does then the Dealership should replace all 5 tyres.
Go for the throat!You want at LEAST 4 new tyres(NOT RE040s)Cause what happens when u rotate tyres back to front?I'll bet u get the problem back!Quote:
Originally Posted by cgspot
If you Sydney guys want a REAL alignment go to Heasmans at Sydneham front end specialists for 40+ years,
they really know their stuff, Peter is the guy to talk to.I always go there with a new car for them to check factory specs.