Since you did your turbo install yourself.
If you hunt hard enough...
Doin a B16 conversion yourself cost $2500. Then $2500 on top of the line bolt on goodies.
Doin a B18C SiR conversion yourself cost $3500. Then $1500 on I/H/E.
Doin a B18CR yourself cost $5000.
So any of the above is valid to race you, fair?
lyle there are consistent 9 sec b series modifed cars running in the states dont be in denial it has being a fact for the last decade or soQuote:
Originally Posted by Sexc86
first honda into the 15's bseries, 14's bseries, 13's beseries,12's beseries, 11's bseries, 10's beseries, 9's b series ............
funny how alot of 9's hondas are all b and h series
all in common with this --- B SERIES HAS THE GOODS
WHY SETTLE FOR 2ND BEST
WHEN U CAN HAVE BETTER LIKE A B OR A K
IF U CANT AFFORD IT WHY NOT SAVE UP THEN INSTEAD OF COMPRAMISING
FOR SOMETHING THAT IS INFERIOR
THE B SERIES WOULD ALWAYS BE BETTER ENGINE HANDS DOWN
IT IS A TRUE HONDA ENGINE
THAT IS WHY THERE IS THIS ARGUMENT !
i think your adding too many factors in mate...
Fair enough I agree with you if you put any of those cars up against my Civic as it is not they would all win...
however thats not what this argument has turned into.... B16series Swap budget vs Turbo Conversion of same budget as the bseries on a d16
Yeah but why would you buy a car with a d series motor in the first place?? Especially if you were in the game for performance. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ek4-guy
You've end up in front if you bought a b series car in the first place and then went to turbo afterwards.
If you've got a d series car you're probably better of selling it while its stock (to an unsuspecting grandma) and then buying a b series powered car and then turboing that. it'll probably only work out a few thousand more but you'll be in front by miles in the long one.
SEXC86: Amen to that. D series :thumbdwn:
lol everyone misses the point. in my opinon if ur tight on budget turbo what u go weather it be that have a d sitting there or a b. anyway barefoot i'll see u on the weekend anyway haha.
like i said if i were rich i wouldnt be in a d
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90LAN
i know man i dont disagree with you.... thred is about the potential of D16s....
Bseries are great engines.. ! and if i had one stock i wouldnt swap it out for a D
reason why i didnt save up for a turboed b (this is inrelation to the post up above saying if u couldnt afford to turbo a b why dont u just save up for it instead of copromising)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aza
we drive hondas not ferrari's ha im not ganna be in a honda all my life, just to enjoy it for the period i have the car
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonGilholme
good advice man but not relevent at all to this thred... dont loose your temper mate and be a bad looser... relax
I would disagree. IF you're on a tight budget you wouldnt want to go turbo because of the trouble and maintenence a turbo car can cause you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aza
fair enough mate, have you got any examples or experience to back that claim up....Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWEGG
in my experience if you look after it good fuel/oil warm up / down time... General Commen sense etc dont see why they cant be as reliable...
there not as much trouble as u think when done right. even my last shitty setup that ran like crap and was completely wrong didnt give me much trouble maintenence wise. always started, always took me where i needed to go.
AMEN! 100000000000000000000000000000000+ REP FOR YOU.Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonGilholme
stop gettin so defensive man... quote me anywhere that i have said anything to disagree with you... the only thing out of that i am interested in and i respect is this statement
"I have agreed that if you have a d series engine your better to turbo it rather then doing an engine swap "
thats what the thred is about.... cheers (Y)
quote
"have failed to see that i've pointed out the fact that the B series is the PERFORMANCE engine of the two and that your better off starting with a car that has a propper engine.
They're both 1.6 litres, and when they're both NA the B series kicks shit all over the D series cause the B is the performance bred car! (hence the different power outputs from your stupid reply earlier in the thread HAHA) The d series engine was for the shopping malls, not the race tracks.
By all means you can run around in your car with a turbo and think its race worthy but at the end of the day just remember that when theres a b series with the same mods as you, you might as well just pull over and turn the car off."
100% agree with you (Y)
Well I'm not Brisbane. I am QLD but.... and I am interested in the cruise, I have my name down - at the moment.
At the end of the day. ALL engines have their limits as far as reliability and power goes, whether it be NA or forced induction.
I don't see the point of building a turbo D series when there are alot better motors out there these days. A stock H series engine in an EG can pull at 13.5 down the 1/4 mile, and as far as i can recall, H motors cost around 3-4k. Cheaper than the turbo D series setup.
End of day summation: turbo'ing a d-series is always going to yield a better hp/$ figure than building up an NA b-series. If you think that hp/$ is the be all and end all of building up a package, then you're really not doing yourself any favours by driving a small capacity honda from the outset.
There is oh so much more to a motor than power output; power delivery, noise, feel, tractability, RELIABILITY, revability, fun factor, transient throttle response, economy etc.
VTEC is overrated?
VTEC is this shizznit.
Why dont you just show us your time slip. It will show alot of what your car is capable of.
all engines has there limits yes and d defantly doesnt have the potential of others. and there are alot of other factors as well. in saying that i dont no why ppl write our cars off due to the fact that its a d. like was just said, many factors contribute.
lmao
turbo D is purely for wank factor
if your serious about performance and reliability on the track then N/A B or K series motor..
fast cars like 200kw+ atw D series turbo... whats the point? wow u go fast straight... lol... BORING...
rather a 125kw type R anyday...
ffs grow up everyone and stop posting crap. Dont talk about racing on the street at all.
Any more thoughts or experience on D series turbo ? Because i only know ONE d series turbo that was decent and whipped a few cars. Mind you , it had faults and alot of teething problems apparently.
Any mroe crap and this is closed as usual
turbo D is purely just a bit of fun.
as any mod on any car.. a bit of freakin fun.
Pretty much no1 here is gonna win/gain nething or become famous for being the fastest.. b nor d.
have your fun..and stop ****ing with others. pretty much none of us are pro racers.. with pro racer cars... buy a ferrari if u wanna be the best.
this is such a long thread, hahaha d series turbo vs b series
having been in both, i love both, just mainly the question how much money you got to spend?
d16 turbos are great but ill choose a b18c7 over it anyday, newer motor, NA, lower maintaince and just as fun
d16 turbos are fun too, i've taken down a b18c7 eg
straight line performance- d series ftw
track- b series ftw!
Lots of unrelated comments in this thread...
Getting lots of complaints about personal attacks/non-related posts and jargons/keyboard warrior attitudes.....
I'm this CLOSE to closing it.... Can You Handle It?
KEEP IT CLEAN pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
excellent mate, as starter of the thred could you please delete all the offtopic posts (Y) as this is an awsome thred for reference for others
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexc86
how about we just leave all the posts as is. There's some claims and promises people have made let see if they stick to it.
for those who are generally interested here at the 1/4 miles times for members of turboD16.com
there are a few times for stock block turboed d's with fairly basic kits in the 13's and some complete stock bolt ons in low 14's. up to u guys if u believe it or not.
http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=13384
o well, like i said not here to impress. nothing wrong with having a car that looks nice. i wouldnt call mine rice either. look wise it has kept the overall ek shape, just has a paint job and mag wheels (which not my choice in wheels, i want black ones with a chrome lip) but im not going to change them anytime soon, they came with the car and i dont have the money to change them so i live with them, i aint to fused. o well yet again someone loves to take it off topic. i'm not even going to bother replying in here anymore.
BTW AZA,
you say "soooooo have you seen any na stock b-series beat a turbo d-series
YEESSSSS I HAVE. and i wouldnt be surprised if it was yours that was beat.
No offence to you Lyle but you where also another. lol
All done at wilowbank.
YING - YANG REPRESNET Jokes :wave:
well wheres the prove off that. basictly thats all its came down to isnt it? ur word agaist his bs. lol dont even no why we argue about it. like has been said, d is the underdog, b is a way better base. but nothing wrong with having a turbo d to have fun in. like i said for the money i spent on mine i am happy with the results. im not going to say its the fastest thing to hit oz, but its defantly not the slowest and i believe was worth the money i put in. and yeah i know there would be some b series na running faster times then sum d series turbos. all d series set up are diff and will run diff times. all b series na are diff and will run diff times.
im talking STOCK! DC2R
Next off-topic/threatening/"I want to race you" type post will equate to bans. I, like the rest of the mods have had enough so stop messing about.
like i said all turbo d setups are different and will run different times. there are alot of turboed d's done wrong out there.
Ok so did you end up going to willowbank to see what times your car did???
Cause im interested
read my build up thread mate. whats going on with the car is all there.
basic run down. final tune is this weekend. will organise to get it timed the following week provided money is on hand, which it should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexc86
I'd love to do just that but considering that there are 30 pages to go through.. I'll be easier just for me to delete this thread altogether but I do not wish to go there...
IF I receive one more freaking legitimate complaint on off-topic jargon/Keyboard warriors wannabes/threats against other fellow members, this thread will be good as gone...
You can consider this as a last warning......
Now be nice and bring on the beer! :D
none taken mate i know may be slower but mine isnt a bench mark, its just 1 carQuote:
Originally Posted by macoman69
I finally clicked on the links and you guys are totally right. d-series is the way to go. there's so many possibilities with them, it's endless, amazing.
I hope this thread has opened the eyes of many, and hope more people on here turbo there d-series, it's so value for money :thumbsup:
Allright I've stayed out of this long enough,
My dseries at 20psi of boost, STOCK y4 head with arias pistons and Scat rods,
12.268 @ 118mph,
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...Picture004.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...Picture003.jpg
damnz thought only the y8 head would be able to take that much...Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastcivic
how long did u have this set up for with the y4 head?
as said before: its not a discusion about NA B series vs Turbo D series.
Its about, if you have a d series in your car its more financially viable (in pursuit of power) to turbo then swap for a B. :thumbsup:
If you start with a B and did the same things you did to your D then you'd be quicker then a 12.3 :thumbsup:
I dips me lid to you, that is a really impressive time, however, the contentious issue at hand is whether a garage floor special turbo kit + d series is better than a stock, or stock-ish b-series. Yours doesn't sound like a garage floor special to me.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastcivic
lol, wow you're the man. No one ever said d-series a slow if you put enough money and work into them. I'm sure if someone wanted too they could make almost any car run them times if they had the time and funds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastcivic
LOL thats right. Online has a crx b16a turbo with only rods and pistons fitted and i think valve springs aswell and does low 10s.Quote:
Originally Posted by 90LAN
look at the heading power of the d series. this thread was surpose to be about the potiential and what abit of work can do to one.
It's not comparable to a street registered vehicle. And it's turbo. A few posts ago people were comparing a turbo D to a NA B, but now it's a turbo D street car compared to a turbo B drag car. What the F*** is this thread about anyway??? Too many tangents.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWEGG
...as well as the financial/power differences between the process of turboing a standard D compared to swapping for a B series. :thumbsup::thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aza
yeh agreed alot of tangents have been comeing into these arguments... but still good to see another Dseries Turbo Slip ... nice work dan!
as said before, turbo what u got lol. i think everyone just likes to have a go at everyone else.
its ok jason i dont hate u for driving a b series :p
wheres the love people
and yeah the thread quickly turned into that, as it always does on ozhonda.
it was beastcivic that asked the question. y don't you guys go bag him.Quote:
Originally Posted by JHMDA9
yeh guys anything personal just keep it to PM
These are the facts using a 2nd Gen CRX as an example.
The average price for a DOHC D series car in average condition is about 5k.. the average price for a B series car in average condition is about 7-8k. (already 2-3k more). I know this, i've owned multiple CRX's over 6 years. I favoured the D series car for a turbo setup because the motors are cheap to replace (performance parts are hard to find though). So I spent all up about 5 grand in boosting my stock motor CRX with the best parts i could get my hands on (posted earlier in the thread) which worked out to be only to be about 10 grand on the road and tuned.
I figured spending the same money on an SiR including the purchase price, i could buy a decent exhaust system and intake.. maybe a decent clutch?.. Which would push me slightly over the factory power yes? The most power i've seen from a bolt on's B16 (in a del sol) is approx 105kw atw.
I can now say that i've increased the power of my DOHC D series CRX (with stock motor) to roughly 30kw more at the motor than a stock B16 CRX. My car has been turbocharged for 2 years and i haven't needed to replace a thing, and the car has never been sidelined due to problems associated with this. I've driven many CRX's in my time, and as a mechanic i've worked on countless ones. And NO B16 CRX WITH BOLT ON MODS ONLY HAS OUT PERFORMED MY CAR.
I'll be the first to admit that a B series motor is far superior, there's no question about it. But i'd be crazy to ditch my DOHC D series turbo setup for a b series motor. It'd be far cheaper to rebuild my D series motor with stonger parts, which means big power once again.
NOW, if i had my time again, i'd probably buy a B16 CRX because ultimately i'm chasing big power, but it's been proven by many that big power isn't hard to find if you build a D series properly.. Andy Le in melbourne acheived 247kw at the wheels, ran an 11.6 at calder park and then drove it home. I was there. But then again, James BLKCRX broke the FWD dyno record with something like 450kw at the wheels with a B16 Del Sol, i was there also. In both these cases.. it's much more power than you need on the street, both cars are untouchable. (i think you'll find that BLKCRX has never come close to an 11.6 even with more power than Andy's 2nd Gen D series)
I think what i'm getting at is.. both B series and D series motors are capable of big power, B series being much more so.
simple.
but the discussion is.. "is a DTurbo on the same level of performance as a BStock?" The answer is no. Is a DTurbo on the same level of performance as a Bturbo? no.. the BTurbo handles more boost (stronger rods) and is much more capable of handling the power. I think you'd find that on the same boost they'd be very similar.
Sorry for the long post guys. Feel free to rebut ;)
Keep an open mind, all honda's rock
+1 Rep for you bro!
Thats what i thought this hole forum was about HONDA not Bseries or D OR K or H :) There HONDA badges on your cars not B series and D seriesQuote:
Originally Posted by mr cyanide
awwww dont cry....:(
Exactly man its called OZ-HONDA... Not JDM-Honda.com or DOHCVTEC.Com or d-series.org or turbod16.com
ALL HONDA FTW!!!
haha new to this thread and it seems funny to me, dont take this the wrong way, but you all seem like school girls in skirts.. i say.. just come out on thurs or any day you like.. and we all go for a cruz..
that sounds kool, stock d16y4 ftw:P
yeah i think more people should turbo their d-series. doin a b-series conversion is such a waste of money when you turbo the d. There's no way an NA car could beat a Turbo'd car.
another solid vote for the d-series turbo!
^^^baaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!! thats a classic!!! one rep point for u too
Err this is about TURBO D16.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen_B16B
Can anyone lese feel the hate in this thread,
Just as a 2c from me, the whole discussion is about the validity of the dseries as a performance option, which it can be,
Good on the guys who have shown another way, save money on conversion and et better turbo etc.
If you want to go nuts, its shown, look at another type of series engine,
Can someone say "K24 puts out more power"
(CRV Block - K series head)
*Waits to be flamed*
yep because there are too many immature people on here who know nothing
I agree, but you got to start somewhere- not everyones born a genious- but some ppl are born asswipes. (not directed at ne1):cool:
agreed
disagree
hahahahahahahahaha what a joke.
d series is a good engine to play with nothing big straight bolt on stuff. if you want to go bigger better N/A. go a B series(this is talking within a 4g budget) if you feel that you can built your d series up to run as good if not better than a b series with mods go for it. if you cant then nothing but a few grand lost and you could start over again with a standard b series. d series are cheap man engines but still fun to have. i have a d series with a nice set of cams and cam gears and all the other bits and i find it runs well(still unsure as how it will go up against a b series, stock or at least with i/h/e)...shame its wet over here in perth so i cant take down strips but dyno results soon
awsome man! is it the zc or the a8? did you have trouble finding support to get your cams? or where these custom regrinds?... in the past found it hard to find parts for dohc ds!
nice stuff man keen to see some power figures / time slips with all your cars specs and mods!
i had a EGSi with a D16a8 , and the 96KW stock was fun. No guts at all tho.
I concentrated on suspension and made the thing handle great which suprised many cars of many types , but if i ever wanted to "race" in a straight line it was a waste of time :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
pretty much sums up a honda and what most honda owners do in general.
there are some quick ones running around but not many can cover all bases.
also, this thread wasn't started for comparison purposes...or was it???
i thought it was just to support the D series crew
in the end, both were designed for a purpose.
one is for performance and the other is for economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexc86
d16a8...it is always hard to find parts for the d series but can be done. and they were going to be regrinds but they snapped one of my original cams while doing the grind. so i got a billet set made up. a bit bigger profile to. when searching for d series part you will more than likely have to search overseas for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan
This thred was never aimed at comparasion... purely showing the potential of dseries engines turbocharged... with all references on the front page (Y) just the argument of which is better just evolved after a bit of time...
haha good one i love da simpsons
hey fishman since ur crazy dseries turbo wasted my sti, im thinking of selling my sti and buying a civic and turboing its d series powerplant.... i mean my wrx does an easy 11.8 but you whipped it hard... really opened my eyes... power to the d series!!!!!
^^^ hey bud, just wondering, why are you a member on a honda forum when you drive a wrx and a beema????
coz i envy the d series
hahahha thats hilarious. but seriously why lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by STI_WRX
Back on topic though, while in NA form there definatly nothing at all special, they respond well to boost, theres tons of aftermarket parts for em, there damn cheap to replace, there pretty light, and there definatly the underdog when it comes to honda engines. Probably the best option for boost on a budget IMO, of course a b series is a much better base for turbo....duh, but the cost to convert to a b series could be much better spent building your current d with forged internals, getting a PnP, and a nice cam IMO...
Reguarding reliability, look at the setups in the US. If there built and tuned well with good parts, they can last very very well. 400whp daily drivers ftmfw.
God i just read through a few of the pages in this thread, bitch fighting ftl.
haha yeah its entertaining lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Muzz