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thats more like it..... i just feel that some people opinions just scaring people away.... u can have ur own opinion, certainly... just dont make them sound like one's opinion is 100% right and other's is wrong... i personally understand that every mod exists for certain purpose.... cant just say that they are useless. full stop. time will tell that for certain. if they are useless, people try, sooner or later no one will buy.....Quote:
Originally Posted by civiceg9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimp13
we just want all the facts straight :)
Its no urban legend that the "harmonic balancer" is there for a reason - our logical question still applies.
If you change this side of an entirely balanced engine , SURELY the all other areas will have to compensate ?
Here is a email reply from my Uncle - he works for BHP as lead engineer somewhere rather lol
Quote:
benjammin,
Pulleys can be made very light even using carbon fibre and drilled alloys like some of the F1 stuff so long as they transmit the required drive torque without breaking. What benefit this would have on a road car is probably so small as to be unmeasurable .
Harmonic balancers are something totally different but most car makers use one item to do both jobs since this is the most convenient and cheapest way to do it.
Balancers are matched to an engine to stop the crankshaft going into self destruct mode at certain frequencies. This means stuffing around with one unless you are really up to speed on the mechanical engineering side of things is not a good idea.
Cheers , pete
btw guys n girls - this has gone slightly off topic- but an interestign topic.
Im relocating to the technical discussion area as it applies to all cars :)
Finally an informative post :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by civiceg9
This is another reason they are sometime reffered to as under drive pulley(s).
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Originally Posted by TypeG
I didn't know my topic will go that far. Please guys we learn from each other, so we don't have to get pissed off from anyone. The best thing is to ask someone that have it installed in his car, and the results, and we can ask some companies like Spoon, Mugen what they think about the Light Pulley.
Here is some info I got
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
I suggest searching honda-tech.com, you will find many examples of what happens to B series motors when you put a solid pulley on them......
crank pulleys do dampen a lil. but not like true harmonic dampers.
True Harmonic dampers (fluid or elastomer ) do not have grooves on them to drive belts connected to accessories (p.s, alternator, a.c.). Harmonic dampers, whether they are fluid/viscous damper or elastomer are installed for only one purpose and that is dampen torsional and rotation imbalance of the crank and nothing else.
The crank shaft imbalance is caused by the rotation of a mass which causes it to vibrate at one of its many natural frequencies. All mass / matter has many natural frequency (modes). There are harmonic dampers out there that are able to dampen the virbration at all modes. But the elastromer dampers can only dampen vibration up to a certain frequency.
Hope this help guys..
I have an unorthodox pulley set for my accord.
*edited out plug*
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Originally Posted by smoknhothonda
I placed a link to a site but one of the moderators must have deleted for some reason....?
Well basically I stated to check out unorthodox racings website, they have a shit load of pulleys available, and its all great stuff, that is well engineered, but is pricey.
But thats what you pay for products that have plenty of R&D work put into the products that are designed and engineered for each individual application. (just like HKS, Trust or any of the other big name Jap stuff)
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoknhothonda
that was me matey - just as it wasnt entirely relevant to the discussion - try and quote info from the site to aid in our discussion :thumbsup:
Ancient thread I know - but I was doing a search on pulleys as I am interested in knowing more about them for the Euro.
It is purported in this thread below that the K series engines do not use a harmonic balancer so changing the pulleys on K series engines is less of an issue. Perhaps it is the same on the Jazz?
http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/show...ulley+harmonic
ps - people are getting quite decent results across the rev range for the K24. Any idea how much the install cost would be?
http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/show...ulley+harmonic