agreed, and it DOES show up on the dyno, especially on the torque graph
Printable View
agreed, and it DOES show up on the dyno, especially on the torque graph
ProECU knows the score :D
Tinkerbell: There is no point picking apart my comments then moulding them to fuel your argument. Go and do a EFI 101 crash course or something, then you may understand what we are getting at here.
When I mentioned the specific scenario, it was in response to that specific question you asked.
When I made the general comment, it was in the context of an engine tuned for maximum performance from the various elements bolted onto it.
Go ahead and spend all that time and money on dyno testing for no useful result.
There is ZERO point in testing this. On a standard motor, the power differences are negligible. You'll get a bigger change in power from slapping an exhaust or intake on. When a modified motor comes into the equation, it is being tuned correctly in terms of timing, so base changes are irrelevent.
Good day.
Oh, and you will only find these gains when comparing a setup EXACTALLY the same.
Changing fuels is NOT THE SAME SETUP.
Going from 91-98 with no other changes will result in a LOSS OF POWER on a standard honda motor (one which takes 91 this is, most non-vtec's).
An early poster in this thread wanted to gain power. So what do you do? He wants to increase timing. Lucky for him, honda maps are rather conservative, so you increase timing. But because of this you will be more prone to knock. So you go and buy a higher octane rating fuel, such as ultimate.
This gives a slower burn and you will end up with a similar power level to before, but with a much cleaner fuel. To then attain the 'mean best torque' you can advance a bit more.
Another posters gave the reasoning, when you advance timing you must use a higher octane fuel.
A better reasoning is that when you use a higher octane fuel, you must advance timing.
The aim is to achieve max power, with as little timing advance as possible.
Advancing timing ie, igniting the mixture earlier, when piston position is further from TDC, from my point of view, is not ideal.
I've had enough of legal docs today...
Timing is what controls the power! Once fuel mixtures are in check, you can't achieve max power with less timing. MBTT by definition, is the timing at which max torque is achieved. If you want to run a little convservatively you can back down a few degrees after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
well, that was actually me:Quote:
Originally Posted by string
now you say:Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
sure, it may be another type of valid reasoning, but maybe you have got it 'backwards' instead of me?Quote:
Originally Posted by string
simply because this actual thread is about advancing timing, NOT about using higher octane fuel...
i.e. if the initial post had said, "has anyone used higher octane fuel" instead of "has anyone advanced their timing"
your response would be entirely valid...
assuming the modified engine has programable ECU?Quote:
Originally Posted by string
The person who commented that you must use higher octane fuels when advancing timing was wrong. You do not have to at all. Depending on the state of ignition tuning, you may see more power by doing so. Increasing fuel octane will only reduce knock if and only if it is occuring.
When you increase fuel octane, you MUST advance timing, otherwise you will lose power.
Take a look at the two examples above. The first one is the initial reasoning, the second one is my 'better' reasoning...
If you think I have it backwards now, then you are an stubborn idiot and should go and find a different forum to argue on.
There is no point taking this any further. You do not have a grasps on the very basics of how an engine runs, or is tuned.
I tried to tell you about max best torque, and how it relates to my definition of the purpose of timing, but you continiously pick apart my comments and take them out of context.
I am done here. Anyone who reads this thread can make up their own minds, I just hope that they don't read a word you have said due to the ambiguities you have created by trying to twist what I have said into your own way.
ookkkaayyyy.. afta reading this for a while i decided to adv my timing.. i was always running high octane fuel... there is a better lower rpm response and zorst notes are different.. i was told to listen out for pinging when going up hillz etc.. ill get back to everyone tomorrow.. otherwise so far its going betta
What does pinging sound like up a hill?
about 3-5 small pebbles in a empty coke can, shaken gently...Quote:
Originally Posted by euGeR
Everythin is still running smoothy.. sooo thumbs up for adv timing.. although.. i think its best to advance it where the car will run at its best.. not just advance it to gain a lil power.. sooo if ur a tight ass like me.. DIY but if ur looking for best performance its prolly best to give it to a mech to do it coz he has all the measuring equip.. kewlies!!!