Is Mobil Synergy 8000 better than Caltex Vortex98?
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Is Mobil Synergy 8000 better than Caltex Vortex98?
I dont know if anyone mentioned this before as its a long thread, but...
To get cheaper BP Ultimate petrol...
Get a Citibank BP card to get a 5% discount... beats coles/shopper dockets.
How do I get a card, I just started using BP instead of Vpower since Shell's fuel supply shat itself. Are there any expenses for getting the card, or is it free membership?Quote:
Originally Posted by BF52
its a BP citibank credit card. you must pay for the fuel using the card, which means you dont really save that much because of the fees associated with using the card itself. you'd have to be buying at least 50 litres for any real saving.
Thanks for that, was thinking you can just get away with a discount card and them recieve nothing in return
Quote:
Originally Posted by markoJEK1
SO it's just not up here in rockvegas weve run out 2wice last week and allready this week.
Nope, its everywhere supposivly, the supply of vpower has been cut and they are bringing in something new, from what ive been told by one of the employee's there
new as in better more improved or sh&t.Quote:
Originally Posted by markoJEK1
we pay $1.31.5for v-power ( goes upto 132.9 @ the most)
and $139.9 for ultimate ( and thats on a good day, it fluctuates to much)
The guy's @ shell here in rocky said we wont see v-power racing at all due to lack of demand.
I noticed Shell has purposely made unleaded fuel around my area empty and instead pushed their new unleaded E10 Ethanol fuel and making it the only available fuel... this was at two petrol stations.
There was a shortage on v-power around brisbane area in the last few weeks.
What associated fees?Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverAMV
I dont pay a mastercard surcharge, if thats what u are saying.
Only cost is the annual fee which u pay for most credit cards anyway.
so does anybody have an idea whats gong on.. other than being a shortage
considering the fuel all comes off the same boat.
its all shit thats what
I have owned my car (DC2, Factory Engine & Factory Tuning) Rebuilt with OEM Honda Parts, for over a year. My results are as follows:
I was going to write up a entire review of fuels but didn't think it was worth my time / usefull enough to the OH community. Keep in mind that during testing, my car was driven conservatively with consistant (throughout differant fuels) but few "trips into VTEC" and fuels wernt judged until a "run through" tank was used.
All measurements of Distance/tank is taken by a full tank (pump cuts off 3 times) until the fuel light displayed for the first time. (excluding when driving over irregular terrain). ALthough i acknowledged and researched this it wasnt an "individual project" just recording and being alert to changes in car behaviour. The trips taken were a mix between "country and city" driving.
Route:
From Eltham to Wantirna South (Knox City)
Distance: 27.2kms, Average Time: 38 minutes, Average Speed: 43.2km/h
In this case:
*"Full Tank" = 41-42 Litres so add a +-2% margin of error
Rankings:
1. Mobil Synergy 8000
2. BP Ultimate
3. Caltex Vortex98
4. Shell V-Power
Testing Order: Shell V-Power -> BP Ultimate -> Vortex 98 -> Mobil Synergy
Overview:
4. Shell V-Power
Pros:
- High End Power Output (above 5500rpm)
- Average to Above Average Fuel Consumption
- its "developed" by "Ferarri" :p
Cons:
- "Cracked" at 95 Octane, Large Amounts of Additives
- Unclean resulting in high carbon deposits
- Low end Torque suffers particulary below 3500RPM
- Rough and "Searching" Idle
I've found shell V-Power to be a "rough" and unclean fuel. Really only showing benifits to those who keep their engine above 5,000rpm, and have little care for fuel system cleanliness.
Average Km's/Tank* Results: 476km, 483km
3. Caltex Vortex 98
Pros:
- Relatively Cheap
- Average Fuel Consumption
- Illiminates Rough Idle
Cons:
- Scarce
- Average Performer in all areas
Vortex almost feels like the fuel that was developed for the car. The car has no noticable powerband, Stable Idle and Little to Medium Carbon deposits.
Average Km's/Tank* Results: 461km, 473km
2. BP Ultimate
Pros:
- Smooth and Very stable Idle
- Little to No Carbon Deposits
- Low End Torque
Cons:
- Expensive
- High-End Power Suffers noticably
- Poor Fuel Economy
- Not as good Cold/Cool Starts
BP Fuel is the fuel you are safe with. Its clean, provides a stable idle, and has good low end torque. However, fuel economy suffers noticably. Not for the 'hip-pocket' concious.
Average Km's/Tank* Results: 434km, 447km
1. Mobil Synergy 8000
Pros:
- Stable Idle
- Cheap at times
- Fantastic Fuel Economy
- Low Carbon Deposits
- Low End Torque (particulary noticable in high gears (3&4) below 4000rpm)
Cons:
- High End Power still has room for improvement
- Idle can be rough (although stable) compared to BP Ultimate
Mobil Synergy is the ultimate solution. It provides great fuel economy along with smooth and noticable low end torque. It isnt quite as clean as BP but is close.
Average Km's/Tank* Results: 498km, 513km
My results have been confirmed by two contacts that work for BP and Shell one of them in the refinary down in Geelong. Although they both agree that my results are consistant with their experience and knowledge. They raised very good points..."Although a fuel may be fantastic you may have a batch that is lower in quality sent to a district of fuel stations or possibly all for a period of time. Although you will find most fuels will give somewhat consistant readings. "
DC2 Fuel Guage Discovery
Extremes:
- Turning Right on a decent will decrease the fuel reading
- Turning Left on a accent will increase the fuel reading
Doing either will effect the fuel gauge less dramatically...Now that is almost completely and utterly useless information, but something I discovered none-the-less!
IMPORTANT FACT
Higher octane fuel is NOT directly related to improving power output. In fact, its the complete opposite. A higher octane fuel burns slower and more efficiently. Meaning less fuel consumption but less power output. The reason people may see gains in newer cars is because the Knock sensor may be restricting engine speed due to "pinging", when a higher RON is used...the car runs smoothly with un-interupted operation. Using the Lowest possible octane recommended for your car, in most situations should give you the most power. Eg. DC2 = Premium Unleaded (95 or more) so run 95. It also has to be used in high compression engines to avoid pinging which in turn can lead to detonation. Also a higher octane alows for higher compression resulting in more power. Higher octane has many benefits but to those who make use of it. Your not going to gain power by running 98RON in a car recommended for a 91 minimum. Technically you would loose torque.
EDIT: American Fuels are measured differantly in regards to their octane ratings. Thanks for the info, SeverAMV.
I thought I'd add that in, as I dislike when people are exposed to rumours or believe exagerated misinterpretations. Of course some people are just misinformed.
Anyway, (Wrote much more than I planned to) Hope everyone finds this information to be useful. I rarely drive anymore (uni), so im unable to take anymore readings of differant fuels, i am now consistantly using Mobil and are finding results within a small margin of variance to the ones above.
PLEASE REMEMBER:
These are my findings, yours may and most likely will differ due to differant circumstances and testing methods. In the end it is mainly my opinion along side facts.
Regards,
Andrew.
your explanation has a flaw. americans dont get 87-90 ron, they use a different reading over there. their 91 octane is the equivalent of our 98 octane fuel. google it or wiki it if you want.
and some carbon deposits can be good to certain extent. on top of the piston, carbon deposits can increase compression a little. but your findings are useful.
oh and did you test each fuel on one full tank of it? or multiple tanks of each? multiple tanks would be more useful in verifying your findings to ensure consistency.
aside from that, some interesting info.
Interesting, did not know that. Contrary to what ive been told my mechanics, but i can see the sense in it.
About carbon deposits, differances in engine to engine (same model, year, k'
s etc.) can make more differance than the gain that carbon deposits would give. Without even considering the fact that carbon deposits would sit on valve seats and restrict air flow through the exhaust.
At least one tank was run through before the 2 readings and results. I think i stated that at the top :S.
Thanks.
this is a fantastic article, everyone.
http://canberracruises.com/Maclean/M...ommonFuels.pdfhttp://canberracruises.com/Maclean/M...ommonFuels.pdf
i wish the prices were still the same :(
my car is addicted to optimax alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by spoondc2
After reading the article posted by 4n'D. Since my engine is rebuilt and should be relatively carbon free considering ive used 98 octane consistantly. I think trying out ethanol might be a good test. Which may get interesting results. Will post the results within the next month or so.
im pretty sure that using ethanol in an engine not built for it isnt really the best idea though...
i had a good read.. thanks andrew, and +rep for you! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
senergy FTW !!! mobil is a very pure fuel, no ethanol crap mixed in with itQuote:
Originally Posted by z3lda
hey V73C, is your pulsar running a sr20 with lift? you're andrew(fc3s)'s friend right? and you got a twin bro
actually, it doesnt really matter as long as you have an efi motor still using the factory ecu, otherwise, your motor will run extremely lean.Quote:
Originally Posted by <4n'D>
well my dad said that he saw on TV there was a particular BP that was selling premium fuel as ULTIMATE.....so i been using vpower majority now on both Type R and S15
Now i wouldnt have believed it if someone told me but caltex vortex 98 seems to run the best in my b16 ... have no idea why it just gived a bit more grunt than the others
Honda does not recommend it as the seals in the fuel system were not designed to run with ethanol. I'd rather stay away from anything with ethanol
mobil 8000 doesnt seem too good on my type S
may try caltex next time
According to the fuel station blurb , all post 86 cars can use ethanol fuel ( that is , the fuel systems can run it without deterioration)Quote:
Originally Posted by Limbo
Most new hondas state in the fuel filler area "safe for ethanol"
read this then
http://www.honda.com.au/wps/wcm/conn...wners/Ethanol/
Ethanol and your Honda
The following Honda vehicles may be operated using fuel containing up to 10% ethanol (E10):
- Accord
2003 onwards- Civic (including Hybrid)
2004 onwards- Integra
2002 onwards- Legend
2007 onwards- Odyssey
2004 onwards
- Accord Euro
2003 onwards- CR-V
2003 onwards- Jazz
2004 onwards- MDX
2003 onwards- S2000
2004 onwards
Other Honda vehicles were not designed or tested with E10 and therefore the long-term effects are not proven.
Ethanol contains less energy value than petrol. In theory, some loss of power and fuel economy (possibly 2-3%) may occur when using E10.
For further information, please refer to your vehicle owner's manual, or telephone the Honda Customer Hotline on (freecall) 1800 804 954
It doesn't prove anything but i'm not one to take the chance to rip everything apart
also have a look at this
http://www.onlinemechanical.net/ethanol-E10.html
It looks like this is where you got your blurb from, but it does have a disclaimer in relation to hondas, have a read.
Newer hondas are different
Optimax for me...way better than v-power...sorry not optimax. i meant ultimate
yeah but where are you guys getting v-power from?
all the stations i've been to have dried up lately
p.s v-power is the new name for optimax
Just went through my first tank of V-Power. No better or worse. Mileage pretty much the same, if not a tad better.
There is no premium 98 of any sort in my area. I swear there is a conspiracy.! Every station I go to it has a friggin sign on the pump saying out.......empty.......blah blah blah.
Ill bet that it comes off at the end of the week and weekend tho!
I havn't used BP for a while (no vouchers rofl). Most of the time I use V-Power, but I think I get better fuel economy out of Caltex Vortex.
Bp ultimate is way better than shell...maybe its the clayton shell station that is diluting the fuel....
if i'm not mistaken today should be the day we get ultimate back..fingerscross..oh yeah baby~
never get good economy with BP
soo i stay away from it now
I use that Shell station often. No problems with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by vincikwan
Is this the one on Stephensons Rd?
I use the one on Clayton Rd.
i get better milage on ultimate then on v-power. more power too. tested on my s15, sp23 n now the dc2r.
I'd get it tuned for Ulitmate as the volume of V-Power Racing (100) isn't nearly as high as BPs range, there are times when my mates need fuel and there is no (100) for them to get, lol. As V-Power Racing is made in VIC only and has to be shipped around from there.
Soo, What is in those race fuel then? Those like 106ron, 109, 120 etc...I tot they have Ethanol in them...
No BP Ultimate today around Sydney West, i poured Mobil synergy 8000 instead ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesewhisperz
Probably a combination of toluene and xylene.Quote:
Originally Posted by todaek9
Here read this:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...gh_octane_fuel
Aviation gasoline with an octane quality of 100 is often cheaper than 100 unleaded, thus it may look attractive to performance enthusiasts. First and foremost, 100 octane Aviation fuel contains tetraethyl lead (TEL); since 1996 it has been illegal to use leaded gasoline in a licensed street vehicle and you can be fined us to $25,000 for using it. Plus, leaded gasoline will damage the oxygen sensor(s) and catalytic converter(s) found in modern vehicles.
Aviation fuel is designed for low speed aircraft engines that run at 2700 to 2800 RPM at 10,000 feet altitude. Aviation fuel often contains hydrocarbons that are detrimental to the performance of a high-horsepower street car.
There are two grades of 100 octane aviation gasoline. One is identified as 100LL and is blue in color. The other is 100/130 and is green in color. The second number (130) shown for the green fuel is a measurement using a supercharged octane test engine. Although this 130 octane number is higher, it is achieved from an entirely different test and rating system than octane numbers determined with normally aspirated engines. For comparison, Rockett Brand 111 octane tests out at over 160 octane using the supercharged aviation method that indicates Rockett Brand 111 has a significant advantage in anti-knock ability over 100/130 aviation gasoline.
true... but in my previous car, the fuel filter element started deteriorating and so did the gasket in my afpr.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
I have no probs using it on old cars, some may not be able to hack it though.. I make sure I change all my fuel lines and anything else thats prone to deterioration... only thing i haven't changed are valve stem seals :)
oh and for anyone who bought an afpr off eBay USA.. DO NOT use the rubber hoses they provide... those things expand and go soft and burst with E10
^^ Aviation fuel /= racing fuel
Was Using BP Ultimate, but then ive changed to Mobil Synergy 8000 just for a test, Its been a week so far and ive noticed alot of CHANGE! Engine runs stronger and smooth even at top end! doesnt struggle at the top end like Ulimate although synergy 8000 i noticed that i waste alot more petrol than BP ultimate. It also runs clean no doubt about it! but having second thought i think ill be going back to BP ultimate just becos theres so many BP petrol stations around :P Such more convenient (Melbourne)
BP is a lot better fuel to use. I get the same extra kick of power from both V-Power (formerly optimax) and Ultimate, however depending on how I drive the car I can get between 30 and 60kms per tank extra from the Ultimate.
I killed 3 fuel filters on my VR Calais 5.0L... Always used to use shell, then when I changed to BP Ultimate, everything was fine! Shell is so bad and very very dirty.
I use vortex at caltex. I personally think its better. One day, I used BP and it fuked up my car. Had to get a new fuel pump and with Shell.. It was just crap. So, I either use Mobile or Caltex. Vortex the petrol got me heaps of K's and the boost it had was pretty good.
I don't understand why people are saying that they feel a 'boost'.. I never felt a difference in any of my cars when it was regular unleaded or Super Unleaded.
Heaps of my mates also say that they feel a boost with Super Unleaded.. Could it be just your brain 'thinking' that it's faster ?
i feel a lag in my car when i use unleaded 91.
Which unleaded 91 did you use, cause when I use BP unleaded 91 in my 121 bubble automatic with a/c on it feels less laggy than if I use Caltex unleaded 91.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Does that make sense, If you can tell me what you used? I'll avoid it so it wont make my car anymore laggier.
shell George. in my bike and gfs car - putting shell in makes it feel weaker and shit. Like those privately owned petrol stations fuel.
Anything else seems the same.