i still think the fd2 and fn2 can sell together.
they will be in diff price ranges, and they kinda appeal to somewhat different markets.
ppl after more funky car, fn2. ppl after a raw fast car that doesnt stand out so much, fd2.
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i still think the fd2 and fn2 can sell together.
they will be in diff price ranges, and they kinda appeal to somewhat different markets.
ppl after more funky car, fn2. ppl after a raw fast car that doesnt stand out so much, fd2.
maybe they rename FN2R into Civic Type R-UK and FD2R as Civic Type R-JP
:p
yeah i herd from my mates, cousins brother who knows a bloke who has a dog and the dogs brothers owner works with a guy who delivers stuff to honda said the same thing and we are getting a V8 jazz too.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JP.87
I will try to sum these UNLS1 lines into a line: "No, I dont think so"Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
to be honest, now i'm not interested with JDM type-r anymore since we all now there is another powerfull civic : MUGEN RR:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by JP.87
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrS7YyoeEjk
there's a real hope when UNLS1 say so ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfdUwOrs0E&NR=1
typeR driver got frustrated... haha
but whats there to do... theres only 300 and they're all taken
if some1 has da MUGEN RR... i'll b ur best friend... hehe
~
is there any country that has hatch and sedan? if not we may be first country to have both versions of type r's! though with the hatch it aint that mauch to celebrate!
Singapore - FN2R is brought in by Kah Motors (official honda dealership), The FD2R which are alot more rampant on the roads are imported and a tiny bit cheaper than the FN2R
JP.87:
The girl on the right of your avatar
-edit- dun wanna attract too much attention
lol gary, u should bring ur FN2R to sg and swap it with someone's FD2R :P haha..since FN2R is more expensive than FD2R in sg :D oh and nice pic.. although i prefer JP.87's avatar..more chio :)
lol gary gwee is so proud of his chic, u sure hvnt changed since yr9...
who's this, i'm assuming a fellow scotchieQuote:
Originally Posted by xqwzit
they should call the fn2r 'civic euro-R'
Lol.. I agree, coming from a fn2 driver
lol @ thread becoming overrun with singaporean/malaysians :)
Was in singapore for 2 weeks for business and I did see quite a few FD2Rs there. I also saw one on display in a shopping mall by the importer. All I can say is that I will get one if they released it here. :)
The more time goes by the less likely I believe we'll get the FD2R in Australia.However,if it does by some miracle make to Australia I would certainly consider buying one but only if the suspension is not harder/firmer than the FN2.:)
ill definetly get a fd2r if they come here. well i would get one sometime when i could afford it... but definetly lol.
I've actually driven an FD2R and the suspension is not THAT much harder than the FN2, don't worry :). But what would I know I'm used to sleeping on the floor at parties and being stabbed with a skeleton made of granite
Ok then, I definately take your word for it;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ary
arghh.. come already! i'm waiting for yaaaaa~
Yeah, FD2R is stiff for a stock car, but when you start comparing it to Hondas here in Aus using Buddyclub N+ coils, it it considered soft. :) I think the spring rate is only about 5-6kg/mmQuote:
Originally Posted by 6ary
i hope i blow my engine and find a half cut of one of those in the same day LOL!
just buy one of this if you have a CAMS licence:
http://www.honda.co.jp/CIVICTYPE-R/onemake/
should cost <$30k landed.
Even if we do get the FD2R expect the car to be detuned. i'd think they will use the same engine as the FN2R and most definitely take off the brembo brake clippers to save cost. stiff suspension will be replaced. they might use the civic sports alloys instead of type-r. also they will take off the indash GPS. so ADM FD2R=:thumbdwn:
hahhaaha no they wont!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingy
they wouldnt take out the brakes either!
LOL its just an assumption. but definitely they'll do some sh1t just to save cost and comply with the aussie standards. fair dinkum mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Sherweeeny
LOL... i think they already did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingy
yap, they also took off K20A, swap with K20z engine. and they named it civic sports !:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingy
By the time they pull their fingers out and try to get it here, the new model will be out and it'll be under SEVS!
Off Topic: Is there a particular reason why honda engines always get detuned when they are sold here? can someone gimme a full recap?
Without going too much into it....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingy
Japs have 100ron fuel. In oz they're not widely available (only 98). So car gets detuned to suit and so that Honda can ultimately warrant it!
Thats the belief anyway....better be safe than sorry they say!
you mean detuned to suit 91 Unleaded, correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepolian
^ FD1/FD2 is 91ron... FD2R if ever made it to oz would be 98 or maybe 95ron.
But it won't... and I couldn't care :P
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
Nothing that a PFC can't fix :P
PFC doesn't support the K series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood
LOL :DQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I wonder if the "fuel quality" is the full story? when they brought in the DC5R they specified that it is to be run on 95 ron... why not 98? I think i heard someone say that at the time 98 wasn't as wide spread. but other manufacturers brought in cars that had 98ron min specified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingy
I would say that it's more about cost. The american 01-04 RSX ran the K20A2 so it was probably cheaper to get that engine for our market too. then america got the K20Z1 in the 05-06 RSX and we also got the same engine in our DC5S
As for FN2R, i'm guessing that's cos the market was going the way of hot hatches and honda wanted to jump on the ship.
Marketing is one of the main factor, many customer would be concerned if a car requires min 98k, especially the car itself costs less than 50k, think about this, a car that produces 150kw (example) by using 95ron fuel as min, and another car also produces 150kw but min requirement is 98ron, almost 10% extra in running cost, which one would you prefer to buy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullabaloo
I know many of us here on ozhonda understands the real difference with 95 amd 98, but there are many many others on the market that only cares about $$, they thinks why should I pay extra running cost with the same performance output.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
10% extra in running costs? i think you need to revise your estimate there.
98 octane fuel is either 5 or 6 cents per litre more expensive than 95 octane fuel.
if you use, for the sake of argument, a 50litre tank every two weeks, thats $2.50 a fortnight. thats $65 a year. compared to servicing and tyres, this is not exactly significant.
many hi po cars need 98 these days, eg. Golf GTI. and it's <$50k. last time i checked, they sell better than FN2R.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
Well, why don't you try go around the street and ask people would they purchase a 38k Japanese car but need 98ron petrol ? Over 1000 people, I guess there would be more people would accept a car with lower fuel requirement over high fuel reqirment for the same performance. (subject to the same car, eg: carA rated as 98ron min Vs carA rated as 95ron min)
In another way, if the car can be driven with a lower spec fuel and more people would accept it, why would they put it at higher spec? What benefit can the car dealer gain for setting a higher rate petrol? And I would believe that some Japanese cars lowered the fuel requirement even without doing any changes to the car, probably just reprogramed the fuel/air ratio so the car doesn't knock.
And Golf GTI is a euro car, euro vs jap? I think more people would say Euro cars are more prestige than Jap cars, thus, using a higher rate petrol is more acceptable for euro built cars.
10% just a rough estimation, ok, my bad, please allow me to correct it, last night I refueled @ shell, 149.95 for 98 vpower, 139.95 for 95, 135.95 for 91, ok,big deal, I'll correct it to 6.6688896298766255418472824274758% extra running cost per year, probably won't be that much but if you add everything in your daily life expenses together, and try to save everything with 6.6688896298766255418472824274758%, the total is quiet a lot. Eg: spending of 30k a year for a family, 6.6688896298766255418472824274758% saving would be $2000.67 why don't you want an extra $2000.67 bonus at the end of the year? Sorry for the number but since some people here are very concerned about the exact %.
We're talking about performance car here, not white goods on wheels.
there is always trade offs in life. if you want one thing, be prepared to give up something. ie. want performance, pay more. want to reduce cost, suffer with ordinary performance.
everyone know performance has higher running cost. use more fuel, parts/service are more expensive. if they're that concern with running cost, they should stick to Toyotas which have set service fee up to i think 60000km.
your thoughts is exactly why we only get the water down version of a so called Type R (aka DC5R), and why it's unlikely we'll ever get the proper ones. but the excuse Honda gives is just BS to me.
A VW that is made in South Africa/Mexico and cost similar $$ to buy is more prestige than a Honda that is made in Japan???? LOL VW is very good at marketing then.
a Type R ffs is a not for the mass. they are never intended to sell in a great volume. that's the job for Jazz and bread and butter Civic.
just like organic food, they cost more for sure but there are still market for them.
That is not a midset that I agree with. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
Japanese cars have just as high a compression as Euro cars. Prestige doesn't determine whether someone would be willing to put in 98 over 95. When it comes to 95 and 98, the general public doesn't give a hoot between the two and would usually go for 98 anyway if they are rich enough to afford such a fun/performance/prestige car. I've seen middle aged ladies put in 98 into a car which requires only 95. Heck, my gf who thinks cars are boring and dull and are only as a means of transport still puts in 98 into her car spec'd for 91!
hehe, maybe I'm talking on the wrong forum. I would say people here are biased with japanese cars. But for me, if I can get a same deal for GTI and TypeR, I would purchase GTI. I pucrhsed the Civic, due to 91ron and good fuel consumption.
Anyway, my conclusion came from a friend of mine working at subaru dealer, he received many complaints about their new Tribeca. The problem is the car stated to use 95ron, but it has knocking issue, engine doesn't run very smoothly, however, using 98ron is perfect, smooth as butter. So that's what they suggested to the customer. What are the feedbacks? 99% people complaint that they purchased the car for 95ron, why do they need to pay extra for 98ron for the car to run smoothly, if they knew the car need 98ron, they would purchase a euro car.
Hence, why I said before.
By the way, I'm not saying water down or what, I'm trying to say why car company in Australia, try to reduce their fuel requirement here. Of couse, fuel quality is the biggest issue, but consumer behaviour is the second.
1. GTi is not an Euro car, only the VW badge is made in German (maybe) the rest is built in South Africa and Mexico (which is worse than Japan - or even Thailand?)Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
2. When ppl bought new car and found problem with them, they will try to make any possible excuse to throw to the dealer... buying the car becoz its run on 95 RON? What a BS!!! It becoz they found the car not running smoothly on 95 RON then this "excuses" comes up. This is happens in live, from PC Games perspective, Unreal Tournament 3 has "minimum requirement" (note: 95 RON is not recomended requirement by Subaru, but "minimum requirement") that you need at least Pentium 4 3 GHz CPU to play them, but I have Core 2 Quad Q6600 and it still laggy!!! Should I go to them and complaint?
3. I agree with consumer behaviour is one issue (beside fuel quality). but ppl who bought Type Rs are not a mere daily customer. They buy Type R not becoz they want to save some money on fuel consumption, not becoz it has high safety rating, or becoz it has Aircon.
I think we are not talking about type r, but why fuel type reqirement is lower in Australia in general.
I know it sounds a bit bullshit, but since the customer brought it up, you think it is totatlly bs? There are some facts, and what else you could sugget. Personally, I would not buy my Civic if it require 98ron as min standard. Would you? (not talking aobut type r but a 20k civic)
VW is still a german brand, like civic is jap brand. Although civics are made in Thailand, ok, lets say, would you buy a $20k Civic made in thailand, or a $20k Babulandagulan Thai car brand but also made in Thailand and the factory is next door to the civic factory?
You see, it is still about the brand reputation.
Again, ask yourself, if you can buy brand new GTI at 38k and Type r at 38k, which one would you buy?
See the Topic title...Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
I didnt said it has to be 98RON "minimum requirement" coz there wont be anything to recomend after that... "minimum requirement" is sort of like 'its enough to run the car, but not the best option'. That is why the Subaru put 95 RON as minimum requirement, but maybe the "recomended" is 98RON.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
Again, I (and as the topic title said) talked about the CTR (and why Type Rs are 'downgraded' here in Australia), not the normal Civics.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
And for this one I still prefer the Type R (note: Type R are made in Japan).Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
peace out...:zip:
Brand/country/euro/mexico car does not determine whether it runs 91, 95 or 98 RON. It comes from engine design, compression and the efficiency it runs at. You can get mexico specials that need 98 RON, and you will find high class Euro cars needing only 91 RON (Mercs). It has nothing to do with which country the car comes from.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
If you mean the FD2 Civic Type R for $38K, vs. the GTI Golf, I'd get the FD2 Civic.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
Ultimately, they are very similar. The GTI gets a bit more torque, while the Type R is faster with more top end (as you'd expect from a Type R). The FD2 is lighter too.
I'd really like them to bring the FD2 Type R here.
did you mean FD2R Civic? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shraka
biased I guess, hehe :P it would be a totally opposite answer from a GTI forum.
Anyway, ignore me :P My point of view is from the car manufacture's feedback, and since petrol is so expensive, people in Australia is taking it as one of their consideration when they purchasing a car, of course not as a first priority, but they do concern, like a $30k car but requires 98ron?
At lease myself would be turned away and purchase another car that has similar performance, but only need 91 or 95 to achieve this. That's all I'm trying to say.
And I would buy a FD2 too :) FN2 looks too sexy and girly to me, just my personal view hehe, don't flame me :P
do you mean FD2?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shraka
personally i would not buy a 20k civic if it runs on 98ron purely becos it's not a special car which warrants the better fuel. on the other hand, i'm prepare to live with the extra cost for a Type R tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
yes you are right but i still won't buy a Thai built or China built Honda. however i'm happy to buy a UK built one.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
i'd buy GTI rather than FN2R becos GTI imo has superior performance and better steering feel and driving position (ie. lower). in fact i placed a deposit for a GTI back in Dec07 when i was shopping for a new car. until i came across with a good condition EP3. however if you compare GTI with FD2, i'll buy a FD2 in a heart beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
Yes, yes I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
As for the petrol debate, I only once put 95 RON petrol in my DC2, and that's when I was in the middle of nowhere on a camping trip. Otherwise it's always 98RON, so the requirement for 98RON wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I'd just make sure I had some octane booster if I was driving into the country.
I rarely put anything but 98 RON into my old carby Lancer, because it ran better, and the petrol was only 10% more expensive, and I got 10% better economy with 98 RON. So it didn't actually cost me anything extra to have the better petrol.
The Type R is for enthusiasts. I don't think 98RON would loose them many sales at all.
Hahaha so true there onion... I think the FD2R is for "enthusiast" customer only, not an normal avg blokes like us that want to find daily car with max performance but min fuel consumptions (and cost)Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
this is true but most if not all sub $50k hi po cars run on 98ron anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
unless u consider a 200kw V6 Aurion/RAV4 a performance car.
P.S. Of course you would, but I'm personally not biased. I just have preferences towards things Honda makes. I prefer a simpler, lighter car to a more luxury spec car. I prefer N/A to turbocharged, and the Civic manages extra power up high, which is were I want the power to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by oniononline
If the GTI was N/A, and had more power than the Type R and handled better for the same price I wouldn't mess about, I'd buy the GTI. Although I think the FD2 looks a bit better than the Golf. It's not a Honda fanboy thing. Honda makes cars that suit my taste, I don't change my taste to suit whatever Honda makes.