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FEO is not an inferior product - my recollection is it is made by Castrol.Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
I don't see what the problem is if a dealer uses Magnatec. If it meets Honda specifications then why not.
If you don't want to use that oil bring your own - I did that for every service (with synthetic oil from 10k). Never had an issue with the dealer using my oil). Dealers usually charge $35 for mineral oil anyway so for a little more $$ you can bring your own synthetic.
It's just an image thing. You would expect a Honda dealer to use and support anything with the Honda name on it. It would be like going into McDonalds and getting Pepsi instead of Coca Cola.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Or have gone into Pizza Hut and got a Coke instead of a Pepsi when Pepsico owned Pizza Hut.Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
1.FEO is a good oil however i was told by a head Honda tech that it can start to breakdown after 7-8K if the car tended to be driven on the hard side.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
2.I think Magnatec is not much better than FEO as far as starting to breakdown before 10K.Both of these oils would be more than adequate if they were changed at 5K intervals.
3.That's the best option.Bring your own oil.That's what i do.
Magnatec also breaks down at 6500-7000km until gentle street driving.
Dealers use Magnatec because it is cheaper by the drum. Also, if they come across other cars that need 10w-40 oil, they can use that since Honda engines can take both 10w-30 and 10w-40.
And the big news of 2008 was the new Porsche 911's service intervals having to be reduced from 30,000km to 15,000km because of Australia's still high sulphur content in Petrol.......
https://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xc...irst_drive.htm
"Porsche 911s are very solid, reliable and durable, albeit with a tendency to develop a few squeaks and rattles in the cabin as a consequence of their hard suspension.
Service intervals on the new model have been reduced from 30,000 to 15,000km, because, according to Porsche, of the contaminating effects of Australia's high sulphur unleaded - even the 98 octane premium recommended for the 911. In Europe, where unleaded has only 10ppm of sulphur, the 30,000 km interval remains."
I wonder what oil Porsche uses?
30,000km interval is too long. If a BMW 330 can develop problems with a 1 year, 30000km interval, the 911 will be worse off since its engine is more highly tuned.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
There is NO WAY i'd leave engine oil in for 30K.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Mobil 1.My brother has one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
I used to use Mobil 1 in my WRX.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony1234
I took delivery of a Luxury Auto on 19/12/08 and have experienced the annoying Pinging sound since 200kms. Have now done 7,000kms and the problem just keeps getting worse. Dealer acknowledged noise at first service early January, and said a fix would be available later that month. 3 months later and I've received absolutely no communication/update from dealer or Honda Australia. Have posted a strongly worded complaint via Honda website tonight.
Love everything else about the car, just sick of the crappy noise!! Sounds like a 15 year old Magna :mad:
Hi Guys,
I am thinking to get an Auto CU Luxury accord euro but now reading this issue, got me thinking. So if I was to purchase one now it will have this problem? Have they rectified it or have a solution for it?
My other alternative was a Mazda 6 Luxury Sports Hatch.....
Thanks,
Kenn.
The problem has not been recitifed as yet, so if you purchased a auto Euro, it's highly likely you'll have the pinging issue. I would have purchased another car if I was fully aware of the pinging issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by k3nnis
Hopefully Honda have a fix very very soon because it's pissing me off! :(
Not all Euro's with auto transmissions are effected. I have had mine since December & have no such problem after 7,000km, 2 other owners of 08 cu2 Euro Automatics that I personally know have not experienced the problem either.Quote:
Originally Posted by k3nnis
As good as the mazda 6 is I personally wouldn't consider 1 in front of a Euro.
Hi,
Thanks for the replies. I would love to get the euro lux auto but I justify in purchasing one, that in the back of my mind that I am into a lucky dip. There will be a chance that I might get one with the problem???
Thanks.
Wait a bit if you can.it should be sorted out in a few months.Quote:
Originally Posted by k3nnis
K3nnis, I was in the same boat as you, tossing up between the Mazda and the Honda. I felt that the presentation of the Euro, particularly the interior, was miles ahead of he Mazda, plus you got more standard equipment with the Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by k3nnis
My car is a manual and has 4,000k's on it and I don't think it has the pinging noise. The reason I say I don't think it has the issue is because a passenger the other day asked what the rattling noise was. They only heard it once, so I don't know if it was an isolated thing
G'day, to other Euro enthusiasts.
I'm 16 and just got my L's (Hell Yea).My parents purchased a Euro Luxury in July/August last year. It now has 20000k's on clock and pings its ass off! It is an auto, like most others with problems. And it is definitely pinging and gives out a very unattractive sound. You can hear it mostly under load but also at differing rpm at different times. It is most prominent around 60kph or 2000rpm. If you rev it harder, which you kind of have to in a 4 cylinder, you do not seem to be able to hear it. I think the sound is still there it's just that the engine is louder and consequently you cannot hear it. Apart from this major problem, the experience hasn't been all that good. A new handbrake is required as it rattles from left to right when not in application. A rattle from the front central cup holders is also prominent, only when open. Last but not least, there are various rattles from the parcel shelf in the rear; I think this is the same issue as experienced by others on the forum. You can hear it if from the boot if you turn the radio up.
The dealer we purchased the car from is Narellan Honda in Sydney and it was and still is a rather 'lets not go there' experience. First of all a month or so after purchase they sold us the 'oh it’s the fuel your using change to a higher octane or different brand’. They were notified about the handbrake on the 1000km service and have just rung us to tell us the part is in. Their defence is that they had to order a handbrake assembly from Japan, which I think is a bit farfetched and may just be laziness on their part due to a timeframe which took 6 months for a somewhat basic part.
With the pinging issue how can there not be damage being caused, eventually it will come out and bite Honda in the buttocks. Something needs to be done on these cars before the warranty runs out.
Apart from all this I think the car is incredibly well finished and engineered. This is displayed in top level aesthetics, brilliant interior and lovely quality material usage.
Does the CL9 Accord euro auto have these problems? It seems like the CL9 was more reliable to start with?
No it doesn't.06+models are the best of the CL9 series.Quote:
Originally Posted by k3nnis
Ive been following this issue closely and was speaking to an ex-mechanic
last week who had worked at a Chrysler/Hyundai dealership several years back. He mentioned that customers brought cars in with suspect pinging noises which turned out to be, hard to believe at first but water hammer in the heater pipes in the 2-3k rpm zone, rectified by foam wrapping and cable ties. From whats already been aknowledged by Honda Australia's technical dept, the CU2 problem is not as easy as that.
The CU2 problem is very strange considering how many engines honda make, and in almost the same form ie. euro engine. It probably has something to do with the high compression ratio or something, but in saying that the s2000's compression is the same. Lets not hold our breath waiting. Considering no formal announcement about the drama has been made by Honda and the general attitude regarding a major engine problem, The general vibe is worringly bad and getting worse. The more they sell without telling customers of the problem is creating more of a sh it fight and it will only get worse.
Maybe if Honda stopped detuning the engines for Australia and kept the Japanese engine maps, we wouldn't be having these problems. I bet these issues are not happening in Japan. We have 98 octane fuel and Caltex even claim a sulphur content of only 50ppm so why detune?
I just found this. Looks like sulphur has been limited to 50ppm in petrol in Australia since 2008 (page 3 - search for sulphur).Quote:
Originally Posted by HVF00T
http://www.abare.gov.au/publications...1_Biofuels.pdf
Its a shame we don't have 100 octane fuel in WA.
I even rang Shell after reading about their V-Power fuels and
after being transfered around several times
head office here were baffled and knew nothing, great.
WA = Wait Awhile
Don't bother with Shell re: high octane fuels here in Perth - I only use almost exclusively BP 98 Octane with my 09 Euro and at a pinch if I can't get it I use Vortex 98, been fine running ever since.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris41
Yes, BP Ultimate98 is my primary choice. :)
My car has 19,500 km on it, pinging all the way. I agree with the posts here about the superior aesthetics, interior etc of the Euro but in all honesty, if I knew last July what I know now about the pinging, I would have bought a Mazda 6. And that's saying a lot because at the time I didn't think the Mazda 6 could hold a candle to the Euro. My brother in law bought a Mazda 6 recently and although I prefer most things about the Euro, it is lovely sitting in his car and hearing the engine purr with no ping.
Agreed :(Quote:
Originally Posted by bk212
I posted the following question couple weeks ago previously but I think it got overlooked because discussion deviated into the subject of lubricants. So I decided to post my question again:
I bought a brand new Accord Euro Luxury Navigation in late january this year. I have clocked about 2,300Km with no problems. However, about 10 days ago for the first time I noticed a strange popping noise coming from the back of the car. The noise did not re-occur until last night when I heard the same noise again.
I am sure that the noise came from the muffler tube on the left. It sounded like a "pop" inside a metallic tube.
Does this sound to any of you, like the pinging noise that everybody is talking about? (I hope you say no)
that's the undocumented afterburner... hehe.. sounds like your fuel is too rich and 'exploding' in the muffler/cat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapped
April 22nd 2009. No advice from Honda still for the fix for the Euro 2009 pinging problem.
Now done 10,000 piniging kilometers and owned the car for 7 unpleasurable months.
Hondas lack of action to fix this problem in 7 months.Doesnt this say to you its not just a minor problem. Anyone interested in becoming part of a class action against Honda for their lack of attention to this manufacturer created fault. Remember when you drove the demostrator vehicle before purchase did it have an engine pinging noise.
Ill bet it didnt. And when you drove your supplied new vehicle home did it then have an engine pinging noise. Ill bet it did. Does this sound like a second hand car sales trichk to you. Remember your car is depreciating the longer you hold on to it. Since Honda are not prioritizing a fix doesnt it go witout saying you cannot sell your vehicle until it is fixed even if you wanted to. Get involved in a class action. As individuals they can divide and seperate as a group we before a force to be dealt with. Contact me at jbowly@tpg.com.au if you want action
below email rec'd by VIDSEURO 23-4-2009
Im not sure if i want it to be enhanced.... (LOL)
Further to our previous correspondence we have just received some good news in relation to the software countermeasure.
Honda Japan has conducted extensive field testing to evaluate the countermeasure software under conditions in this country. As a result we have received confirmation that the software update is ready for release and that it will enhance the combustion sound. However, Honda Japan has also advised that in conjunction with the software upgrade a revised engine knock sensor is to be installed and both actions will need to be carried out at the same time.
These knock sensors are being fast tracked for manufacture and we will be in a position to attend to your vehicle as soon as possible around June/July at which time we will arrange for you to be contacted via your Honda dealer.
Meanwhile we do appreciate your cooperation while investigations have taken place.
Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD
Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services
MMMM sounds more promising, but they need to make an official announcement about the problem and the newest solution.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Originally Posted by OranparkAddict
If the little men in white lab coats have done their job
then we will have a winner.
If not Honda Australia have a shyte car....
Im positively hopeful and look forward to this problem being resolved.
Maybe one of you pingers can blow a motor and blame it on the ping.:cool:
Thank guys &
Thanks for the update VIDSEURO!Quote:
Originally Posted by VIDSEURO
Interesting wording they use. Also, if it's not a pining issue why does there need to be a revised knock sensor installed?
I'm looking forward to further information on this because I freaking hate the ping sound, I haven't driven my Euro for 2-3 weeks because of this. :(
Probably sound more like a fart (lol). I'd be wary of anyone stating that the pinging noise can be enhanced rather than eliminated; as it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by VIDSEURO
:( I had Luxury Auto since mid March, has done 1800kms and have the same annoying mettalic rattle from engine bay. The service deppartments of the dealerships are aware and can only say a fix is on the way. Everyone that I have spoken with about the problem say that it's not doing any damage. Not overly reassured by these comments. Spoke to a customer service person from Honda this wek and he said that they are currently working on a solution which involves them replacing a component and then re-calibrating the software. Won't be available until July 09. He said that it was only affecting a small percentage of Euros. Don't beieve this is correct. Disappointed that the 2008 COTY has these fundamental flaws/defects. Really not good enough Honda, especially if you want to considered against the European cars like Audi, BMW, SAAB etc. Interested to hear what other Euro driver think.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroMG
Hi Joystick, Feel much the sames as you. Not overly impressed by this annoying pinging from the engine bay. The noise was never in any of the demos's I tried. Maybe Honda had a batch of problematic cars to off load in their Jan/Feb sales? My car also has a seat sensor that has come adrift from the padding and distorting the front seat leather. Have had some annoying problems with my last two Hondas and they are currently really testing my loyalty. I think they take far to long to address the issues raised by their customers.
Cars don't come perfect. That's why you have warranty. I hope you got your seat replaced under warranty.
Is a squeaky seat a real warranty issue? I thought it would fall into the rattle category. Replaceing a seat would be very very expensive fix for an item that still fundamentaly functions correctly. I'd be very surprised if the dealers ever offer me a replacement under warranty.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Wont be buying any Hondas from now on Paid 51.5k for mine still has the issue which i notified Honad in the 3rd week of my ownership the car is closing to 20,000kms now by the time the fix comes out, it really wont matter much the car is getting old.
what a disgrace, takes a year to rectify a engine ping.
I guess if you want luxury you should stick to European
Well considering the amount of time it has taken to get to where we ar enow with the problem indicates that it is not regular and complicated. I think it is the knock sensors not correctly detecting after detonation, if it is this hopefully soft ware will fix this. Other wise YAY cracked pictons and wrecked rings for all!!Quote:
Originally Posted by frank87
Also i dont think that this takes away from it being a luxury car. Its still got the looks, features and technology of a 'luxury' car. Its a very good car out of Japan.
Also I guess its not just the car its also the level of service you receive Customer wise.
as a previous post saying the fix should be about June/ July whats there to say it wont be delayed?. i have been chasing this up with Hondas Customer relation assistant manager / national manager and i tell you its appalling.
Dear Frank
Further to our previous communications we are pleased to confirm that we
have now received advice from Honda Japan that they have developed a
software upgrade to address your vehicle concerns. They have indicted the
expected ETA to receive the software data will be mid to late February and
once the information is available, you will be immediately contacted to
arrange for your vehicle to be attended to as soon as possible.
kind regards
Irene
Irene Price | Assistant Manager - Customer Relations | Honda Australia
Mid/Feb to late Feb. Never heard of it again Contacted her 3 times to when my fix is going to happen as it is now May and below is what i receive after 3 times
Dear Frank, Irene Price has been on annual leave and your e-mail has been directed to my attention.
As you are aware, we have been working closely with the technical division of Honda Corporation in Japan who has conducted extensive field testing to evaluate the countermeasure software under conditions in this country. We have received confirmation that the software update is ready for release and that it will enhance the combustion sound. However, Honda Japan has also advised that in conjunction with the software upgrade a revised engine sensor is to be installed and both actions will need to be carried out at the same time. These sensors are being fast tracked for manufacture and we will be in a position to attend to your vehicle as soon as possible around June/July at which time we will make arrangements for you will be contacted via Larke Hoskins Honda dealer. Meanwhile we do appreciate your cooperation while investigations have taken place.
Regards
Joe Gelsi
Customer Relations Manager
Honda Australia Pty Ltd
Yeah sure annual leave i've emailed her 1s in March 1s in april and the latest in may finally a response.
well heck if it was delayed why do i gotta chase it up. why no 1 bothered to notify me?.
poor service thats what i say poor customer communication poor customer relationship.
this only makes things worse if they took the initiative to contact me maybe i wont be so pist off.
yeah.. that's why it is ANNUAL leave... she is on leave for 1 year ;) will be back in another 9 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by frank87
i bet she's got fried by the GFC.
I've had my 2009 Euro for 2000kms now - purchased this year in March 2009 build date in Nov 08 and no pinging whatsoever (touch wood - knock knock :))
Hi guys - can add me to the (growing?) list of CU2 luxury autos with a pinging engine. Took it in yesterday to get a look over and told the same deal as all others. Burswood Honda (perth) are waiting for the 'fix it kit' from Honda Japan - they tellin me a few weeks or so. After a quick google and read through this forum, i dont think that will be happening - seems Honda are taking their time addressing this problem... I just told the guy, if the engine breaks, i'll be getting a new one thanks! Not good for $50k+ worth of car...
Seems to be a global problem also - heaps of cases in a few countries!
FYI - got the car in Jan - just clicked over 10,000km - pinging started approx 1000km ago... Fuel octane does FA!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 09euro23
Welcome to the club....the "ping" club!!;)
Is anyone's ping getting worse? Mine can be heard through the entire rev range now and sounds like there's metal shards getting tossed around the engine. :(
After 7,000km I finally have the so called pinging issue. It is not repeatable under any given driving conditions or engine load as pre ignition has always been. Some days it is evident, other days it is not. This leads me to believe that it is not pre ignition as we in the trade know it - ie - fuel igniting too far before TDC. It is something entirely different causing this sound. What it is would & has been a difficult diagnosis. Personally i am not concerned as I don't believe it is a detrimental problem in any way. I say that because the problem is intermittent and that would not be the case if it was pre ignition - if that was the case it would be there under certain engine loads constantly.
Knowing how the system works I fully understand Honda Australia's hands are tied until a solution is found from the parent company. While I can understand how it would be an annoying & frustrating problem for some, it can only be heard with the radio off & a sharp ear.
Personally, if this is the only warranty issue I have with the car I will be more than happy with it. A fix is in the pipeline & that is why we have warranty on new cars.
Hey Buddah,Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
Based on what you've said about pre ignition. Mine occurs constantly and under load all the time and is 100% repeatable.
I'm starting to thing that perhaps my problem could be something else.....I think I'll be booking her in next week.
Sad to hear of another affected car. It's pinging/pinking/knocking, not pre-ignition i.e. exactly what Honda describes it as: "A post combustion sound". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knockingQuote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
It's wrong to accept it in any way. It's an expensive purchase and the fault should not have been allowed to drag on for so long. It affects your cars' potential resale values as the model will become known for this fault. When they write the book of lemons again, will the CU2 get a mention?
What lemon are you talking about, I believe the fault will be rectified in due course & once rectified how will it effect resale values? Sure it has taken time to find a solution, but better to do that & find and effective solution rather than try and mask over the problem as many manufacturers do.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
If cars were perfect they would not need to be covered by warranty & I do not know of a perfect car in any price range.
Hmmm can anyone post the sound of this "pinging"? A friend and I would really appreciate if we can hear what does it sound like so we can be aware of it...
Or, perhaps someone already trade in their CU2 to dealer becoz of this? I might pop in to the dealer and run a test drive to check how does the pinging sound.
Well mine still pings, given it is now one of 5 cars I have, it sits in the garage and is not driven, unless I have to move it out of the way. I am over it, never buy another Honda, hell my 1982 Commodore and my 1989 Mazda RX7 have less rattles and engine noises...FFS Honda pull ya finger out. Once this is sorted I am trading this on a dual cab ute and be done with it...
strangely my 1996 crap falcon and 2001 commodore has more rattles and problems than my CU2... :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobjones
Yep mine has worsened noticeably in the last couple of weeks. I've done 20,000km since July 2008. Seriously considering getting rid of it and buying a Mazda 6 instead, taking advantage of the 30% investment allowance before 30 June to soften the blow a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joystick
should sell it back to the Honda dealer. and when they try to lower the price with "Coz it has pinging problem" reason, run over him with the car!Quote:
Originally Posted by bk212
I feel the same way and might explore the possiblilties of getting a VW or 6. To have a constant pinging sound coming from the engine it greatly detracts from the driving experience, it's all I hear now when driving the car. Like others I find that I'm driving my other cars instead of my Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by bk212
Buddah51au - totally agree with you - this is my second honda now and this is the only problem i have experienced! (albeit it may be quite serious, the waranty will cover it!)... In comparison to my previous HSV's, Honda shits on other dealers in respect to service and commitment -- i am sure the fix is coming and all should be resolved in due course! Patience people...Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
And experience with friends who own mazda's (esspecialy the CX7's and CX9's)... their fuel problems are far worse and mazda have sent them through the ringers like you wouldnt believe!!!
[QUOTE=denot;2254253]Hmmm can anyone post the sound of this "pinging"? A friend and I would really appreciate if we can hear what does it sound like so we can be aware of it...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The noise that comes from the engine is the same as a baby rattle
with tiny mettalic balls in it.
The noise can occur when motor is cold, or when you are accelerating hard.
Honda's reputation is on the line....
Quote:
Originally Posted by 09euro23
I don't believe it is a serious problem at all and I am sure it will be resolved. Sure i can understand how some people would be frustrated & annoyed with it, but taking a backward step to a mazda to me is laughable. They have their share of problems as well. If the Mazda 6 had a pinging problem you probably couldn't hear it over the road noise that enters the cabin.
When i was working in the trade it was common to see people with problems wanting them fixed yesterday. I look at it from a different perspective, if a manufacturer has a problem with a vehicle I prefer to see them take their time & resolve the problem properly & permanently, which I am certain will be the outcome in this case.
As for Denot wanting a sound clip, I believe that would be an impossibility as it is not loud enough for a microphone to pick up.
True enough. But some cars have a citrus reputation. In posing the question, I am hoping that the CU2 would not be in those numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
Here is another question: What solution?
We will all find that out in due courseQuote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
The time to fix is the main issue here. Surely Honda engineers in Japan have the capability to resolve and test a mechanical fix in a short timeframe. 7+ months is not good enough and points to someone in Honda slowing down the fix process or not taking this seriously
yes 7 months show something is really not quite right.. what if this while thing isnt that simple.. maybe the k24z3 isn't worth the 148kw / 8.9l.100km as already advertised? and the solution they've got would need that figure revised to something like 140kw, and they can't release it because they can't do it
i m talking sh** on friday :D
7 month? I know they just recall Civic 2001 7th gen last year to fix a problem with their headlight stuff that has been raised when the car just released...
You mention a time frame of 7 months, but what you fail to take into account is the time frame it takes to realise there is a problem to start with.
I would look at it as a 3 to 4 month time frame to realise that they have a problem that is effecting a high percentage of cars. From there they would need to carry out field tests to evaluate the problem & then develop a solution. After that they would carry out further extensive field tests to make certain they have found a solution & that would rarely be achieved on the first attempt. It can be very time consuming & people need to be patient. Is it not enough to know that Honda Japan are and have been working towards a satisfactory solution to this problem. Rest assured they will do whatever it takes to eliminate the problem & will release the outcome when they are completely satisfied they are happy with the outcome.
Lets compare apples with oranges, we are talking about a car with a base price of around $35K & people are complaining that a fix for a particular problem has not been found within the first year of a model run.
Now as irrelevant as it is, lets compare that with the mega rich folks who buy multi million $ ocean going yachts who always say it takes around 2 years to get the bugs ironed out. You don't see them complaining about it, instead they let the engineers work through the systems until everything is as it should be. So if any of you guys win lotto and strike it rich, stay away from yachts.
What is a worry is that I've heard of Acura dealers in the USA telling customers that the pinging noise is 'normal', but they still pass the complaints on the Honda/Acura. I guess most CU2 Accords have this problem then...
I'm hoping we don't start to see posts of owners of this car over time with engine damage.
Pinging issue for me would be a deal breaker with this car... It's a shame, since they got the driveline in the CL9 so right...
- HZ
Buddah is right. The processes evolved etc aren't as simple as jumping into the problem and having a fix instantly. As frustrating as it is for you guys waiting for a fix...it's just as frustrating for the engineers working on finding the problem to producing the most viable solution to the problem. It's very frustrating but just have to be patient. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
I wouldn't go as far as saying "most CU2 Accords" having this problem. It just seems like a lot of CU2 owners have this problem because of the various honda fanclub forums having a thread with CU2 owners complaining about the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterZero
boleh - i dont think you are talking shit - I was actually thinking about this very issue last night - i said to my wife that maybe Honda has advanced the timing too far to achieve the 148Kw power figure, and hence caused a 'pinging' issue... Therefore, any retarding of the timing (in order to fix the ping) will sacrifice some degree of power (this is from experience with some of my previous V8 engines).Quote:
Originally Posted by boleh
I am going to keep a very close eye on the fix and concentrate on this power issue - cause i will be pissed if they have to revise power figures down after just spending over $50k... As far as i am concerned, they need to keep the power at 148Kw, or take back the car due to false sales. Maybe this is why they are taking so long to fix....? could be some serious legal issues if power has to be sacrificed!
So the lesson for ppl who wants to buy CU2 is to include "110% money back quarantee if pinging (or whatever honda said this problem was) occured on the car" and if the dealer doesnt want to approve it, walk away...
Mate I see where you are coming from. I certainly prefer just about everything about the Euro to the Mazda 6 - but I can't tell you how annoying this noise is. It takes away all the enjoyment of driving a car. And in a Honda too - they are meant to purr! I think I'm so p*d off because I feel like this has taken away the enjoyment of owning a new car. I understand it will be fixed etc but my car won't be new anymore. Anyway, you're right I guess it's all been said before and we just need to wait for a solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
I tried capturing the 'pinging' sound on video but no luck. I can put up the vids if you would like though. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
Also, I think many on here including myself are generally happy with the car but just venting about the whole pinging issues. It does detract from the whole experience but meh, they'll fix it.
Honda says it's a post combustion sound so it is pinging. It's more likely to be caused by the higher compression ratio of the CU2's engine (compared with the CL9) and that's probably why the "fix" is taking so long: Reducing the compression ratio is not a feasible option for Honda as this would require opening up the engine of all affected cars all over the world where consumers have clout. Hence the solution would have to encompass software (possibly detuning) and a small component like a more sensitive/reactive knock sensor.Quote:
Originally Posted by 09euro23
They will try to avoid the legal issues but that's a matter of financial might: No consumer could reasonably alone take on the legal resources available to Honda and then convince a judge that there has been a reduction in power or that it means anything important is another matter altogether.
Pinging is a pre combustion sound, not a post combustion sound....sure they may sound similar, but they are 2 different things. Pre ignition caused by high compression or ign timing too far advanced usually leaves a tell tale sign on the spark plugs.
After almost 2000km of having this problem I removed the spark plugs yesterday to check for any tell tale signs and they are burning completely clean with no sign of pre ignition.
This satisfies my mind that it is a post combustion sound a stated by Honda.
Not so. Pinging/pinking/knocking is a post combustion sound/event. I have posted the following extract before and here it is again. The full article is worth a read:Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking "Knocking (also called knock, detonation or spark knock, pinking in UK English or pinging in US English) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events."
And:
"Pre-ignition (or preignition) in a spark-ignition engine is a technically different phenomenon from engine knocking, and describes the event wherein the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark plug fires. Pre-ignition is initiated by an ignition source other than the spark, such as hot spots in the combustion chamber, a spark plug that runs too hot for the application, or carbonaceous deposits in the combustion chamber heated to incandescence by previous engine combustion events."
lol just quietly im over with it is pre or post or prepost arguement.
i just want it fixed resolved and never have this problem again. simple as that
update, my dealer said that they have received a memo that are able to repair the pinging noise. Service will be calling me on Monday and hopefully get some more info then
werd. Hope you get it resolved soon Shakkas. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shakkas