yes - but you don't hit 6000rpm VTEC in 2nd until way over 100km/h ay... that is the problem with the ratios in the auto.Quote:
Originally Posted by jtboo
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yes - but you don't hit 6000rpm VTEC in 2nd until way over 100km/h ay... that is the problem with the ratios in the auto.Quote:
Originally Posted by jtboo
i don't know if anyone has mentioned this as yet but in manual mode the car will change up gears it's self if the revs get too high this is to protect the engine.
My last car was a sirion gtvi with steershift and in manual mode it was slower than auto mode.
I haven't fully tried out the euro yet but the best way to find out is let the car get to about 6000 revs with your foot flat and at 6000 push it into auto mode and you should feel more or less power but i think it is pretty much even in both modes.
Hehe. Me too!Quote:
Originally Posted by sugapopcandy
Ahhhh ... no. Have you even driven an auto Euro? In manual mode it will not shift up a gear automatically, but rather it will just sit in the gear you've selected and bounce off the rev limiter. Maybe your Sirion did auto-shift up even in manual mode, but not all cars/gearboxes are the same.Quote:
in manual mode the car will change up gears it's self if the revs get too high
The gearbox is just an automatic not an SMG, so when in manual mode it is just manually selecting the same gears in the gearbox that it uses in automatic mode. Same gear ratios, still working through the same power-sapping torque converter. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the auto gearbox to make more/less power in manual vs auto mode.
However it may be faster in manual mode but only because it won't automatically shift up just after 6,500rpm like it does even at WOT in auto mode. I have found that tapping the gear lever up at 6,800rpm in manual mode will result in the gear eventually changing at 7,100/7,200rpm without bouncing off the rev limiter. Whether this is actually faster or not, I'm not sure.
Rod
I reckon if you shift at 7100rpm, it will be faster than shifting at 6500rpm. Because in that 600rpm, you have a higher gear ratio, and hence a high torque multiplication factor. Faiz, did you time your 0-100km/h runs?
Read the TSX/Euro technical document. If you let it bounce off the limiter for extended periods, it says that the autobox will shift up.
Shifting at 7,100rpm will result in it bouncing off the rev limiter and then actually changing gear at 6,800rpm.
Shifting at 6,800rpm will result in the actual gearchange occuring as the rev's peak just on the rev limit.
I agree it should be faster shifting in manual mode than leaving it in auto, but you can never know for sure without trial and error or without exact examination of the power & torque curves (which will vary if you have any mod's) and the gear ratios. Note that the optimal shift point will often be different for each gearchange because the difference in ratio's between 1st & 2nd will most likely be different to 2nd & 3rd and so on.
Also remember more rpm does not always equal more power, but it can be worthwhile revving it past the rpm for peak power if it means that you are in a better part of the power band when the next gear is selected.
I've never been stupid enough to leave the car in gear bouncing off the rev limiter for that long!! :rolleyes:Quote:
Read the TSX/Euro technical document. If you let it bounce off the limiter for extended periods, it says that the autobox will shift up.
na i ahvent done the 0-100 times yet. I cant realy acurately measure same time i drive. I am thinking that i should put someone beside me and do it or something. i will try today if i get the chance. s should i change gear at 6800 rpm or 7100 rpm?
Oooh, yeah, it is good to have someone else time for you as it is difficult (and stupid) to keep your eye on the stop watch at 100km/h.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faiz
Push the lever at 6800rpm and see if the car changes to 2nd at 7100rpm. Since others say there is a lag, you have to time to change so that the car itself changes at 7100rpm.
Oops, meant to say to shift at the suitable rpm so that when the car shifts, it is at 7100rpm, you are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by jolt
The ratios for 1st and 2nd in the 5AT are 2.652 and 1.517. Doing the math for torque multiplication, 1st gear will have 2.652/1.517 = 1.748 times the torque of 2nd gear. The ratio of the max to min torque of the Euro's engine from 1000rpm to 7100rpm is 1.328 (dyno from Honda). Therefore throughout the rev range of the Euro, 1st gear will ALWAYS have more torque than 2nd gear (assuming the highest you will ever rev is 7100rpm). The only mods that can change this characteristic is a super aggressive cam and the disabling of the VTEC system, so that you get piss all torque below 5000rpm and all the action between 5000 and 7100rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by jolt
Isn't math fun? :D
every car has a power and torque curve... its just that hondas tend get peak power at higher revs than most other japanese cars.
Power doesn't mean much, it is just Torque x RPM divided by 5252. For the Euro, peak torque arrives at 4500rpm, just like many other cars. It's only when you are looking at the Honda legendary engines such as the B16C, B18C3 and now the K20A, that have the highly aggressive 2nd cam profile that you get peak torque very close to the red line.Quote:
Originally Posted by viperx
In this discussion about the Euro, the torque (and hence acceleration) in 1st gear is always higher than 2nd in the whole rev range. Same goes for 2nd and 3rd gear, 2nd always has more torque than 3rd gear.
You know what? I think that the Euro's 2nd cam that comes on at 6000rpm is wasted because the engine can't rev much higher than 7100rpm.
Yeah i actually own one check it out atQuote:
Originally Posted by jolt
www.coastcars.net
my mistake i tried it tonight after reading your comments i just assumed it did as my sales guy told me it did so i will be having a few words about that
sorry if i upset you with what i sad too.