Sweet, thanks for the updates. Can you please get a video? haha
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Sweet, thanks for the updates. Can you please get a video? haha
took my car to the shop to get dyno'd today. told them its using water. pulled the plugs and number 2 has some water in it. oil looks good. water in rad looks good. so im not sure if gasses are goign to the radiator, or if it is only water going into the combustion chamber.
there could be a number of things wrong, but we think it may have something to do with the o ring ing of the block and possible pinching. so im looking to endyn to see what they think i should do. will defiately have to take the head off, but where we go from there i dont know.
its all going to be painful. if i take off he head it will have to be machined flat again then that will stuff with the clearances of piston to quench etc, which would have been set very carefully.
anyway, i'll keep you guys updated..
What head gasket was fitted to the motor??
Cometic B/VTEC Head Gasket; 0.030"; Naturally Aspirated; No
Nitrous (Each)
head is o-ringed
i heard back from endyn, said head my need to be re torqued.
How did i know you were going to say cometic!!!!
Yes it may if you are very lucky so good luck with that.
I had issue with my big bore set-up with cometics, they always gave me greif, should the re torque not fix it let me know, ill let you know what to change it with.
Also if the head is coming off, make sure your mechanics know what they are doing in regards to setting the cam timing back, but it shouldnt need refacing, its not like its overheated so you should be fine......or has/did it get hot?
engine got hot once, which caused check light to come on. i believe the check light is 210degreesF, once i got some road speed a few secs later i saw my temps come down again. this was when my fan wasn't working properly and computer wasn't switching fan on, but relying on the switch on the thermostat.
i was watching my oil temps as well through my whole break in and oil reached max 105degrees C very briefly a few times and sat around 95degrees C most of the time.
head is used, so it should have alot of heat cycles under its belt, so it should be a bit more stable and resistant to over heats hopefully.
Bummer!, sorry to hear about that...
But before you jump in the deep end & pull the head,
Try retorquing it & add a "Seal Lock" "Seal tab" (3 equal steps to 80ft/lbs)
http://www.seallock.com.au/seal_tabs.html
It's a great product & locally available :thumbsup:
Chances are it'll sort your issues & save you a bit of greif.
As a side note,
The other issue I've found with B-series using head studs is if you follow the ARP (& other's) instructions,
you can often encounter the issues as you describe.
Ie: 4. Screw studs into the block "HAND TIGHT ONLY"
The problem here is this idea defeats the whole purpuse of using a stud in the 1st place & also risks the need to retorque the head.
By torquing the studs into the cylinder block, you get the best of both worlds & realise the true stregth improvement of the head stud.
The stud has a shoulder, so sound engineering says it should be torqued into place.
Example: By applying a torque of 30 ft/lbs to the stud before the head is fitted, the stud shoulder then applies a compressive load to the parent metal of the block.
The stud is also secure & unlikley to come loose (especially when compared to those that are only hand tight)
When the head is fitted & the stud nut torqued to the appropriate torque (80 ft/lbs in your case)
the tensile stress on the partent metal of the block is reduced when compared to a std head bolt.
That is the parent meatal then see's a tensile load of only 50 ft/lbs, 8 ft/lbs less than when using std head bolts.
(Yet the head is still pulled down by 80 ft/lbs) ;)
Conversly, if the head stud is only hand torqued into the cylinder block per instructions,
there is no compressive load applied & a further 22 ft/lbs more tensile load is applied to the block parent metal.
The only benifits then realised by using the stud over an OEM head bolt (assuming hat the base thread is home before torquing)
Is that no twisting load (only tensile/vertical load) is applied to the stud shaft therebye offering more accurate torque results.
(Over OEM head bolts)
The other benift is the increased clamp load through increased torque with a coresponding increase in tensile load on the parent metal.
If an engineers approach is taken, the parent metal is 1st compressed, then releived when the stud nut is torqued.
Ideally you'd torque the stud into the finnished torque, but generally this is not practical or possible.
In any case, the benifit of increased clamp load is realised & the parent metal of the block is less stressed then it would otherwise be is this method wasn't used.
Also, FWIW, I'm yet to encounter torque differences in stretch etc when this method is used.
Obviously this goes against the advice of the stud manufactures so you can take it as adice or not,
but in my experiece, it negates the need to worry about gaskets or retorque them.
Hope that helps,
Cheers
Adrian
my engine builder suggested to re torque head. 70 ft lbs.
he also sugguested if that didnt work and its a porosity issue then to try BarsLeaks.
my mechanic said that if retorquing does not fix the leak and that barsleaks is used, then he will not tune my car. if we knew for certain that the leak was not the gaasket after the re torque then he would trust barsleaks to stop the porosity issue.
but patching up a leaking gasket is not something he wants to try, he has seen motors blow gaskets and destroy engines with hydrolocks with barsleaks. so he is not keen to try this on my motor.
so fingers crossed the retorque works wonders.
sounds like the tabs you talk about are the same thing as barsleaks :)
im also not sure on the tightening technique they used on the head studs. but with their experience they would know what works best.
thanks for the talk on head studs. its interesting! :P
210F is only 99 deg C. I wouldnt think this would be an issue?
as for the oil I have seen up to 118 deg C on the Golf and 245F on the teg before my oil cooler was installed. surely the temps you saw would not cause the head to warp.
I was looking into O-ringing in the past. Maybe consider a Stainless oring on a copper gasket ? apparently that works quite well
Seal lock isnt like barsleak and wont cause the residual shit that barsleak will also and is worth trying, they use it often in all forms of motorsport.
As Adrian as said, 3 increases up to 80ft/lb is what you would go to.
I know Larry had a similar problem with his original Dart block build with porosity being the case within the cylinder wall and now he normally pushed them out at 84.5mm opposed to 85 or 86mm as they used too.
Good luck, keep us updated!
fwiw - my cometic 85mm MLS gasket on 84.5mm bore is holding up fine using the tight headstuds technique (mine @ ~20ft/lb) and nuts tightend to 80ft/lb...
(not boosted though)