does it feel more powerful?Quote:
Originally Posted by lighty01
and did you actually use a timing light when you adjusted it?
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does it feel more powerful?Quote:
Originally Posted by lighty01
and did you actually use a timing light when you adjusted it?
You should be touching anything under your bonnet if you think there is a lot of "measuring equip" for changing base timing...
Cheap timing light is 20 bucks... Everyone should own one...
tinkerbell- yes i did use a timing light... honestly id doesnt feel more powerful.. just better zorst tone and may a lil lower to mid power... but nuthing significant.. and besides.. its free.. so im not complaining..
string- when i said measuring equipment it was for the noobs who hav no idea how to do anything under the bonnet.. so its best to take it to a mechanic..
Hmmm... Seeing as most B-series engines have knock sensor for preventing pinging under extreme heat conditions, advancing the timing when using a higher octane fuel is VERY GOOD. 98 RON has more energy stored within it so advancing the timing is the equivalent of igniting TNT, it takes more energy to ignite but compared to a bottle of petrol of simliar weight, the explosion is much bigger.
When taking a motor into account, advancing ignition timing forward 2 degrees makes the engine more efficient BUT for those of you that claim to have felt no difference or a loss in power, your Knock sensor may have activated(for many various reasons) which is designed to retard timing by 4 degrees so your 18+ just became 14+(hence loss of power) and your ECU will not report a fault as the knock sensor is actually working!!
If you have I/H/E to let your engine breathe better, advancing the timing by no more than 3 degrees and reap a gain in power across the board.
For those of you that think Honda knows best, realise that Honda actually sell their cars to cardigan wearing granma's too who will put 91 RON in their tank. So they have to take this into account with their ignition mapping. Most JDM spec imported models have more aggressive timing and more base timing cause they have access to 100RON fuels on their standard I/H/E cars, making more power!!
Remember... the bigger the bang, the more fuel mixture your burning, the more energy you are releasing, the more 'fuel effecient' the motor becomes.
Of course aftermarket ECU's or 'plug-in chips' want factory base timing so that their increased ignition advance maps are spot on.
Don't even get me started on this...
Did I mention I am a mechanic(and a car magazine writer) and do this for a living?? I see positive gains from ignition timing advances atleast once a month.
Ask any performance orientated workshop their opinion and follow it. Why else would the GTP Civics be running more timing despite higher track temperatures?? The SR20DE series Pulsar gain 8Kw by advancing the timing 6 degrees forward and using the knock sensor to retard timing above 6000rpm.
Forgot to add that if you really have problems with pinging, I suggest going 1 heat range colder in your spark plugs when you advance your timing (IE NGK BCPR5ES to BCPR6ES or equivalent iridium plug, BCPR6EIX)
The mild combustion chamber temp increase will stop the plug from fouling up or mis-firing.
Good luck!!
ok.. its been a while now.. i filled $43 of 98 octane fuel and got 430 km! then i filled $15 of pulp and got 150km.. so far it looking great.. performance has improved more because i advanced it further!:P my car is stock.. i raced a stock twin cam corolla seca and he got axed!!! (my car is 1.5 sohc dual carbi) so yeah.. adv timing seems to be going great.. cept i wonder y cars dont come stock with adv timing??
possibly due to the risk of poor fuel?Quote:
Originally Posted by lighty01
but remember you are using higher octane fuel as well, it may not be available at all times or customers who buy cars may not wish to spend more on fuel to get better proformance?
to dig this up again... there are small gains (not necessarily just power, but clean burning) to be had from advancing timing, while running basic bolt ons... but once you're using an aftermarket ECU e.g. hondata, you want to be running the factory settings? and if you have advnced your timing, you need to buy hi octane stuff to prevent pinging... and use colder spark plugs? wow... i wish there was a 101 subject for stuff like this.. cos it's real important for us wannabe tuners... im learning so much from this forum!
We assume here the car actually has a knock sensor. Many hondas especially 92-96 did not come with a knock sensor.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhappy46
Ive datalogged knock retard, and believe me, its a LOT more than 4 degrees.
Very True, there is definately a lot of sh$t out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhappy46
Good to know, I may need to chat with you for a future product release.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhappy46
I am increasingly becoming more concerned over the perception that MORE is better. Although everything stated by "iamhappy46" is generally true, there are many instances where retarding timing will nett more power...especially with cam changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhappy46
...and say you gain a few extra peak kW's.....ask yourself at what expense.
People need to be aware of this when tuning themselves as there is a lot of power generally to be made through correct timing.
Personally, I like to leave base timing where honda intended it, and tune timing via the ecu, becuase as I eluded to, timing can be applied where apropriate.
I agree here with PRO-ECU.
Ignition timing is something best left to the professionals. 3 degrees would be a limit but even 1 degree can make a difference. Tuning via the right chip or ECU is the best way to get your engine running right tho.
I guesstimated 4 degrees by tapping the block with a screw driver and using a timing light ;)
I was talking about I/H/E modified cars for advancement. Camshaft changes need timing to suit the new cam, where efficiency is more wide spread or localised(depending on the cam)
MoDCoN, you appear to be on the right track. That is really the basics tho, it gets more indepth than that!!
Always make sure you tighten up your dizzy bolt after adjusting as well, things get really messy if the off centred weight of your dizzy makes it advance ALL the way. Yep, seen it happen!!
Another thing,
Say your trying to stick to the speed limit on a highway drive and that with 91RON and standard timing, you require 20% throttle to keep the speed constant.
If you use 98RON and the correct timing, you will release more energy from the fuel your using and find that you may require only 15 to 18% throttle to keep a constant speed as more 'energy' is available. Using less throttle, means less air input and means using less fuel = GOOD when fuel is $1.30+
Expect about 7 to 10% better fuel economy on a long trip and is why 98RON is worth the extra 4% premium over 91RON
ok ok..tday i stopped at bp (best petrol :P) and pulp and high octane petrol was the same price.. so i filled 10 buks.. tday.. my tank is empty again and i see i did 125km! happy using high octane coz its more enviro friendly plus the lil bit of extra power.. still going great!