The B20VTEC discussion thread

I went through the whole thread but found NO information on the PCV system for B20 vtec.
Breather kit is a good start. Anyone got pics how its connected?

There has been a few good discussions about PCV setups in a few of the older B20 threads.

Here's a few posts that were made awhile back in my build thread..... not sure how helpful it is but Im sure others can expand further on some of the points made

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

also - you going to run a pcv system from teh back of the block?

you know about the Honda "spouts" from a Prelude (i think) that screw into the two hex plugs on the back of the block?

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell...%20nozzels.bmp

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZeForce

I dont think it is completely neccessary but it is probably a good idea since the 96+ blocks didnt come with a PCV tank on the back of the block. Reducing crankcase pressures stops blow-by and increases the life of the piston rings, some say it even gains a few hp from the engine being able to rev easier.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

whereas i think it IS completely necessary, as the PCV system for B20B engines is integrated with the valve cover - which is discarded when you add the VTEC head... ;)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

i have taken it a step further by taking a large port off the front of the head - where there is a internal baffle,

much like this (but one big 3/4in hole - not two 1/2in holes):

http://www.theoldone.com/articles/ba...ather_tank.jpg

i have my catch tank mounted high near the battery, and i use the i use one port on the back of the block as the drain back point...


this whole article belwo is quite valuable - even if you are not going "all the way"...

http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZeForce

Yeah I was initially going to purchase the endyn breather kit, but they wanted $150 in shipping alone..... so I am just piecing togother my own, I plan to set mine up coming out one of those hex plugs to the top of the breather tank and then have it drain back into the other hex plug.

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

yep, it is not ahrd... i use a $20 eBay canister - and have added my own brass fittings...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZeForce

I opted to spend a bit extra on a moroso breather tank since they are internally baffled

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Also, here's more info on the setup I was running on my B20VTEC....

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Originally Posted by ZeForce

I used the prelude oil cooler fittings (part# 11107-PK2-003 make sure you also get the matching washer for that part number) which you can get from honda, they fit in the back of the B series block where the 2 large hex plugs are. I was running two 1/2" rubber hoses to a moroso breather tank/catch can with a drain back. If you dont care about emissions you can just run it with a filter vented to atmosphere otherwise you will need a PCV valve and run it from your catch can to your IM.

This is the breather tank I was using, moroso are expensive but they are internally baffled

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...cee28b6354.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...50f2c0db67.jpg

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RE b20's.....cant you just take the breather / oil seperator system off another b18c or b16a and run that like OEM ?

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

RE b20's.....cant you just take the breather / oil seperator system off another b18c or b16a and run that like OEM ?

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http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...4bdd8ede5d.jpg

thanks thats the exact answer why ! :)

nice info there Zeforce

Hmm so what will happen to the inlet on the Intake mani where the orignial pcv hose connect to? Do you block that off?

Instead of taking both hex plugs off, cant u just take one off and use the other one on the IM via the breather kit?

That way the PCV system will be close to stock

I just blocked off the port on my IM, otherwise I would have removed the filter from the top of the breather tank and ran a hose to my IM with a PCV valve. Also, you dont need to use both hex plugs but I used one as a drainage so I didnt have to worry about emptying it out and should also help the crankcase breathe more.

As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat....

Lets just say you did take the filter off and ran it straight to the IM via the pcv valve,
Any chance the oil from the catch can go back into the IM?

Don't worry about your PCV valve.

With the breather setup you no longer need that piece of shit setup. If you want to be emissions legal I can supply kits with the full coy to adapt the breather can to run to the intake manifold and by pass the standard PCV setup. Oil MAY end up in there but the moroso can I use is an oil/air seperator so I highly doubt it. I can show you how to run this with a normal setup if you already have one anyway, all you need is a PCV valve.

With a B20 I would run as many breathers as possible, especially being high comp. On a normal build you will be cranking out more blowby than you can evacuate properly. The key to good ring life and engine power is minimising the pressure in the crankcase, this is one major advantage of a dry sump system which pulls vacuum in the crankcase. With our breather setups, we can at best attain atmospheric pressures in the crankcase.

I would F off the OEM PCV setup. Block the port on the IM. Run BOTH breather hex ports and if you can stretch your budget, tap into the rocker cover.

how would B20 aftermarket headers sit when installed in an EG with B20vtec?
i know the bolt pattern is the same for all B series, but what would ground clearance be like? its a 4-2-1 header.

Is it tri y?? Apparently it's not good for ground clearence. You want a decent header with ground clearence get genuine SSR headers or Genuine RMF headers both expensive as shit

i got tri y headers man, and they are shit for clearence... say.... a tube lower than my sump.. so near 25=30mm lower than your sump

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Originally Posted by VTec1987

Lets just say you did take the filter off and ran it straight to the IM via the pcv valve,
Any chance the oil from the catch can go back into the IM?

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this is how i do it (2.5MB):

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/a...ankventB20.jpg

you can see a breather filter on the rocker cover, but i actually run the OEM line from the intake pipe to the rocker cover...

Thats a balling breathing set-up

thank tinkerbell...
I know how to run my breather kit now

reason i asked if aftermarket B20 headers would fit EG with B20vtec, i have found a nice set and for cheap too. but i also want ground clearance as well, and i dont wanna fork out the money if it not gonna fit. thanks for help boys

If you want ground clearence get jdm itr 4-2-1 headers

the 96 spec ones?

98 ones

JDM ITR 98+ = 4-1 header...

oh ok :confused: thought 96 and 98 would be the same so i guess the 96 spec ones??

most of the yanks use itr jdm headers 4-2-1 for good ground clearence

The JDM 4-1 will make more power though

yanks dont care abt power...

jdm itr header suits 1.8L

hi, would xforce 4-1 headers clear the b20b block with ease?

a B20B is virtually the same size as the B18C, B18B, B18A and B16B

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

a B20B is virtually the same size as the B18C, B18B, B18A and B16B

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thanks tinkerbell.

i've got myself a b20b with a b18c2 head for my eg with a b16a in it already. do you guys recommend using the b18c2 head or b16a head. the b18c2 head equipped with adjustable cam gears and cams. but i dont have the IM TB for that head. would it be easy to fit the cams and cam gears straight into my b16a head? also which head will perform better?

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Originally Posted by anster

thanks tinkerbell.

i've got myself a b20b with a b18c2 head for my eg with a b16a in it already. do you guys recommend using the b18c2 head or b16a head. the b18c2 head equipped with adjustable cam gears and cams. but i dont have the IM TB for that head. would it be easy to fit the cams and cam gears straight into my b16a head? also which head will perform better?

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the VTEC cams are all swappable, but check for wear on both the cams and head prior to doing so... if both in good condition, then go for it.

the head that would perform 'better' would be the one that is in the best condition.

if both heads are in identical condition, the B18C2 would be best as it is slightly higher compression ratio (but you need an IM for it)

how do i tell if there is wear and tear on the head? i'll take a picture of it tonight and post it up. but as for my b16a head i won't be able to tell because its still running in the car atm.

im thinking of installing the motor in myself. but i'd like to know what are the rough prices to pay someone to install the motor into my car drive in drive out in melb. anyone know of places and prices?

my car currently has the b16a2 in it with i/h/e and ecu untunned. would i need any other supporting mods to make the most of the b20.

hey guys,

i will be doing another b20vtec conversion soon to my build. i have one question. Headgaskets and Camshafts

Chr1s or Toda or Tinkerbell can you explain which headgasket is best to be used for a b18c2 head?

tinkerbell i know you used the standard b20b headgasket but doesnt that block some holes? i was wondering should i go with the golden eagle headgasket?

Camshaft

Theres alot of camshafts in the market which would be best suited for b20vtec turbo (yes i know their selves are weak)

Camgears

Is all camgears do the same thing? or does each one have a specific output

??

Cheers fellas

OEM
OEM R's
you need cam gears that wont break

the GE is OEM, lol!

Whats OEM R's?

Use a B20 headgasket chief

Im assuming CTR/ITR cams

YE itr but the b20 headgasket blocks the holes on the head

whatever gasket is used, it will block some holes

golden eagle headgasket doesnt block the holes tho

Nice breather set up tinkerbell!

it does block holes, just slightly though.

wasnt there a thread somewhere that clarified all this recently? Trying to find out where, was illustrated with pictures and everything.. There was one head gasket that had minimal restriction...

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

golden eagle headgasket doesnt block the holes tho

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even though it is made by Honda?

what actual 'holes' are you talking about?

GE uses OEM but bores the holes out for the dowel to sit in the block and headgasket nicely. I think thats the ONLY difference between the OEM and GE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

golden eagle headgasket doesnt block the holes tho

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One gasket is the shape of the head, the other, the shape of the block - choose your poison, either will block something.

There was a guy that posted pics on b20 blocks with and with ge headgaskets.

Ge didnt block holes where as oem did i forogt where this person posted jt but i will find it and post up

Either way, alot of people are running GE, OEM, Cometic MLS combo's with absolutely no problems.

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Originally Posted by riruiz_88

here is what Golden Eagle has to say about head gaskets. you can choose the OEM B20 gasket or GE Vtec head gasket. they cater for machined bores as well. on HT many people swear by OEM B20 gasket, while other despise the OEM B20 gasket.

http://wiki.clubcivicquebec.com/imag...ank_gasket.jpg

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this^^^ on pg 2

thank you!

soooo... which holes are you worried about?

top left and bottom right..

if you're worried so much about holes being blocked then you should buy the GE kit

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

top left and bottom right..

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huh? huh?

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Originally Posted by Chr1s

Whats OEM R's?

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Type R cams

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Originally Posted by zco

if you're worried so much about holes being blocked then you should buy the GE kit

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or buy a Dremel...

i'd say from those images, th easiest would be to go with b16 gasket and dremel out the oil return holes. at least u wont have to deal with the rivets beingin the way.

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Originally Posted by kraiye

i'd say from those images, th easiest would be to go with b16 gasket and dremel out the oil return holes. at least u wont have to deal with the rivets beingin the way.

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You've obviously never removed the rivets before to hold that belief. They are incredibly soft and take 10seconds each to remove with a set of pliers. Drilling out the dowel holes on the other hand is more involved, something which IIRC you avoid with the VTEC gasket?

Whats everyones' take on girdles?

Don't need them.

Sweet, if you say so, thanks!

I heard it does more harm then good would this correct chris???

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

I heard it does more harm then good would this correct chris???

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Wouldnt that be blockguards?

oops sorry thats right LOL didnt read properly LOL

doesn't matter.

if you install a 'blockguard' or a 'girdle' on a B20 bottom-end without proper machining, you are going to be heading towards problems...

hey tinkerbell

what injector size would i need for a built b20 with 130-140kw?

You think 290cc injector would be enough?

i will be running 725cc ID's on my new one...

you need 440 or so for a high output B20 i'd say... depends on the ECU as well...

i was running Prelude 345cc on my old B20... (120kWish)

HTH

do you guys have any problems with torque steer?

Shouldnt have any problems if you are running a LSD

If you don't want wheelspin or torque steer at the front buy a charade.:idea:

charades get mad wheel spins lol. especially the F2 Detamaso

LOL you'll make anything wheelspin ahah

I will make you spin chris * wink wink *

ahaha here we go

Just tuned a motor I put together last year,

RSMachine 84.5mm
Standard rods
Standard head
ITR cams
Toda headers
ITR manifold
Injen CAI (I'm starting to not like these)
2.5" catback

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6543/anthonyb20.jpg

It has an arseload of midrange when you shift into the next gear, it wheelspins like crazy on the street.

My comments on the build, considering it was put together without any porting anywhere, it's obvious it's running out of air up top, I didn't want to throw more timing at it there to make up for it due to the compression as it is. I'm interested to see what it puts down on another dyno as IS Motor Racings dyno is pretty conservative, BYP's B20vtec put down 143kw there which is only 10kw more.. damn dynos! :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chr1s

Injen CAI (I'm starting to not like these)

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excellent work mate! :thumbsup:
may I ask why you're starting to dislike the injen cai?

I don't think its the right length for these engines, they seem to be a little too long. I always get a drop in midrange before vtec too.

FYI Chris- 143kw was on 80% throttle.

Setup looks good. I've seen this 90% similar build make similar HP.

lol ok

my car was only 50% throttle and almost got that power because the cable was stretched:). nice power but think it might be abit of a high reading... dunno everyone to there own opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chr1s

I don't think its the right length for these engines, they seem to be a little too long. I always get a drop in midrange before vtec too.

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Looks good & clean mate... :thumbsup:
You're right, in some instances the Injen can be bettered. Make your own on the dyno for each engine is by far the best way. (But not many people want to pay for it.)
To stick with the Injen & semi sort your issues, there's a couple of quasi fixes...
The std B16A intake manifold can help you out with the low end, personally I prefer the B18C2 2 stage intake.
Then there's cam timing. Retarding the exhaust cam (to increase the overlap) should do the same, looking at your curve, I'd guess between 4 & 6 deg (crank).
The other is ignition timing. You mentioned you didn't want to throw any more timing at it up there due to the compression. Try going the other way from about 7500... You may get a similar result doing the same in the later part of the low cam map too.