apparently a set of genuine brembo brakes cost around $16000, and thats just the trade price. so sticking brembos into a sub-$40000 car will kinda kill its price advantage.
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apparently a set of genuine brembo brakes cost around $16000, and thats just the trade price. so sticking brembos into a sub-$40000 car will kinda kill its price advantage.
Well, if honda UK is using the Accord v6 and legend as their collective performance yardstick, i can see what the issue is.
Think lad, there is more than just one model of brembo caliper.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverAMV
you do realise that honda australia has always down graded the cars here regardless based on the power decrease because of fuel availablity and option availablility...so I dont know why a few people complain that it doesnt have LSD and brembos etc are going to change what Honda Australia prefers in the larger segment...yes its nice to have those things but it adds costs to the overall package and that doesnt seem like a good business strategy for the company itself
just go out and buy some brembos don't think you would bother anyways .... the car is way to heavy and looks like a Peugeot. I went to the dealers in my mates real civic type R (EK9) to look at it ... and wasnt impressed at all.. the car is very high... and not wide... the seats are bulky side bits arent high its more for everday driving...
If you want a car to modify this car isnt for you. the exhaust at the back make it hard to modify suspension is a nightmare to get to ... don't even think they can be changed... the plastic fuel cover looks cheap.... and the stereo cant be changed to an aftermarket one as its built it... its pretty much get in and drive...
well the base model of brembos can be bought for around $6000, but for honda to stick them in, they'd still end up doing testing/R&D for it, which brings up the price a notch. altho if the CTR did come with brembos and cost only a tad more, i'm sure a lot of people would buy it, but the sub $40000 price tag is more attractive to people, and so far it seems like its one of the few japanese front wheel drive sports cars still available, which kinda puts it in competition with the toyota sportivo range, and as mentioned in this thread, the golf. most people probably wouldnt care less about brembos unless CTR turns into GTR and gains an extra 400kg.Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
It's all about the power-to-weight ratio. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by e240
LOL, so you want 1-pot Brembo calipers? Those things are like stock calipers except for the red paint and the word "B-R-E-M-B-O".Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
If you went for large Brembos (or any brand of 2-4 pot calipers), the car would then need a bigger master cylinder.
Don't be childish now, Mr. Moderator.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
How in god's green earth you've managed to extrapolate a single piston brembo from "more than one model of brembo" I won't understand.
Something like this would have been fine:
http://www11.ocn.ne.jp/%7Ekuroki/kit.jpg
And they don't cost $16k either.
I didn't say that they cost $16k. But that setup in the pic will cost about $5k at least and Honda still has to retool to produce the brackets, which will cost a lot since they don't sell as many Type Rs as they do regular VTi models. Add that to the cost of a new master cylinder. So in the end, would you buy a CTR with 148kW, torsion beam suspension, Brembos and no LSD for $48000 OTR? Or will you instead complain about the price and how the DC5R was being sold for $49999 on the road with A/C, with LSD, rear double wishbone suspension and a track-orientated chassis?Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
very very well said! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
i also think a 'few' and i mean just a few people like the 'brembo's coz of the bling factor...also how many owners of older type R's and type S's have put brembos on their cars???
People always want what they can't have. If the UK CTR came with Brembos for the same $39,990 ($42000 OTR), then everyone would be complaining about the lack of LSD then.
i know and most of the time its people who have no intention whatso ever on buying a new car! Some prob have never even bought a new car...
tell me does the XR5, VXR, Golf Gti have brembos and LSD???
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
aiya tai low...............let aarong jai do the arguing...........your making honda dealers look bad.
fark that... sell me a festiva with a type r badge..
its a hot hatch... good car.. takes me from a to b...
I'd hit one.. its the best..
lets wait until they do the track comparo with this civic R and its precessors.....
the Type r's are meant to be race cars from the box...
type r's having a racing heritage... lets see if this is a dud then..
with everythign aside.. i am very skeptical it will be faster or greater than any R's in the past...
With all said and done we just have to wait until someone could do a proper comparo
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
Its about bettering a previous model..
Are the latest XR5, VXR and golf GTi better than its precessor with more features and punch? yes
or could it be u makin the car look bad and having no idea about the current car market???Quote:
Originally Posted by MKI4EVA
I cant believe this car is getting such a flogging over such little things, are u in the market for a new hot hatch MK14EVA?? have u drivin the CTR? have u driven the golf and the XR5???
I think we are lucky to have this car, but its not good enough so maybe we should all tell honda that dont want it at all coz its not up to jap spec one, its got no lsd, no brembos and its not a true type R!
There are heaps of die hard fans that arnt happy, i also think alot of them are canning the car and havnt even driven it, or have no intention of even buying it or a new car for that matter!
What about all the new people this car has bought to the honda product?? What about the customers that we have had that are young and some middle age that have taken delivery of their new CTR and love it to bits???? not one of them have come to us saying blah it needs LSD and brembos, they have come to us saying Omg its such a thrill to drive and im so happy i bought it....
what would they know anyways....
:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
No, but they have more power, more torque, more capacity, a turbo and similar weight. I think they're justified in their price.
Incidently, you left out the Megane 225 with brembos, turbo, less weight, more power and more torque (for about 40k drive away), and the mps 3, with the LSD, also available for similar money.
Thanks for your take on consumer psychology.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
We're in the situation here where we can see a civic that is manufactured in the pacific, has the LSD, has the brembos, has 20-odd extra kw, is lighter, faster and also carrying the same name and same label. I think we've every right to feel shafted with the UK built ctr hatch.
If Honda sees that the enthusiast community is happy to have the wool pulled over their eyes with the UK built CTR, they'll keep supplying the bastardised little rice rocket, and you can expect more of the same contempt from them in future models to be released.
From a commercial perspective, I'd be interested to see the difference in manufacturing and delivery costs between the UK built CTR and JDM CTR.
i dont believe honda wanted the CTR to have the most power and torque in the first place. Honda didnt want to join the turbo wagon, they wanted the raw n/a power.
my bad for leaving out the megane but i havnt driven that one yet..and i think in the long run the CTR will have a better resale. Im not going to start on the french cars. I also think that the CTR will end up havin much better sales figures than the megane also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
i agree with u on that one!
Yeah, labour in the UK is much higher than in Japan. The JDM CTR costs about AU$27-28,000.
I think you're missing the point here as it sounds like you work for Honda.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
If Honda is giving the car for a song, yes, then I believe there's nothing to complain about, but the car is hardly cheap at 40K, and Honda AU is just banking on the Type R Badge to sell the car.
One does not need to be in the market with intention to purchase, if the car is appealing enough, it would start to compel people to think about buying it.
While the UK Type R will appeal to some, it will not appeal to others. Myself, I would not even consider this car because there's really nothing special about ti other than the Badge. I wouldn't mind testing one to see if it changes my mind, but I think the Honda dealer near my home thinks I'm a poor kid cause drive a boom boom EG civic and would never give me a test drive.....LOL.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the reason why there seems to be so much emotion about this new CTR is that a lot of ppl have invested a lot of their goodwill in to Type R which has been borne about by an appreciation for cars such as the DC2R (and maybe to a lesser extent, the AU DC5R (but that's a whole can of worms there)). When Honda no longer delivers on something we've invested in in the past (both emotionally and financially), then we feel betrayed that our beliefs can be so easily dismissed for the sake of what Honda believes will bolster their bottom line by raking in more of the masses.
So what is it about Type R which manages to evoke such emotion and a faithful following that makes this new CTR so grating for people like me?. Well, when I sit back and think about the amount of effort that Honda had put in to the DC2R, and I mean the minute detail things, I can see that a bunch of Honda people really devoted a LOT of thought and effort in to feel, performance, and dynamic factors that are most likely irrelevant to 90% of drivers. I like that a lot. It's the same reason why Rolex makes diver's watches that can go to depths that most people wouldn't even dream to venture. Conversely, the new CTR instead places a LOT of thought and effort into compromising a package to suit the 90% of drivers who couldn't give two tosses as to why the car is not fitted with an LSD.
What does that tell me about Honda being an exceptional company full of clever engineers? (or so the advertising goes). They may well have had their best brains work on this CTR, but the end result smacks you in the face that the engineers just conceded to the bean counters and the PR men who think they can sell this car off spin and advertising, and the red H...cos... no one really cares whether it's faster, or lighter or cleverer than the last one, so long as we can get enough people to think they're sharing something with Jenson Button through marketing words and pictures, we'll make a mint!.
I'm more of the opinion that if Honda can win me over with technical accomplishment, then they can have my money, and all the money from people who will look at what they've created with a respect from a technical accomplishment viewpoint as opposed to just applying engineering in the fields of marketing and advertising to appeal to those that would be impressed by red starter buttons instead of (in my opinion) more impressive things like moving the gearlever's centre of mass back and downwards for mass centralisation and reducing the CoG.
In the past (as Honda Japan does now), we see a whole load of technical data and detail describing what changes they've made and how and why. I don't see any of these sort of details with the new UK CTR. Is it because they don't see that boasting about saving money with a torsion beam rear setup and the omission of an LSD cos "they can get away with it" would make very good text?.
I think if we just sit back and say, aww...ok, we should just be thankful that we get anything at all, we end up getting what we settle for. i.e. mediocrity. I won't buy in to that. We know Honda can do better. It's just that we can't get our hands on it...
slipangle hit the nail square on the head; the new aussie delivered ctr represents a pretty cynical exercise in marketing and badge engineering. I can't help but feel let down that Honda hands us this car, tells us it's a type-r and expects us to suck it up hook, line and fishing sinker.
My guess is that Honda don't really care if they alienate the enthusiast community, because it ain't where the money is. If nothing else, it's a pity they don't bring of the jap CTR as a hero model...
its good to see that different point of view! i guess in a way ive been bought up on different markets and ive had/owned alot of V8 cars and moving to hondas was a lil hard.
I guess im also excited to have an exciting car as for the last 3 years ive been here there hasnt been any exciting cars at all. (i didnt find the type S teg that great)
I missed the boat selling all the old ones but thats the way it is! i was in V8 land back then!
yeah they are gonna bring out the jap ctr when they are already selling FOUR variations of the same chasis? australia is too small of a market to be able to support 2 type R's at the same time, especially when we already have the civic sport in the sedan line upQuote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
another thing is many honda owners have been demanding a decent hatch, seeing as we havent really had anything good since the EK4 in aust.
It may not be perfect but it fits that mould. the FN2 will be suffiecnt to most peoples needs and will satisfy most ppl bar the weekend racers. While the car might not match some people's expectations of the Type R badge, honda aust will have no probs selling their allotment of the FN2.
oh and people keep mentioning the megane in comparison..... i have heard so many horror stories of engines dying and various quality control issues from both ex owners and from dealers its not funny. it'd be ashamed if honda put out something like that
Actually, if they brought the Japanese Civic Type R in, I would put a deposit for it straight away.
just a few more thousand deposits and we mite get one! (per state):DQuote:
Originally Posted by e240
did you ever think that this also justifies their need for brembos? CTR doesnt have more power, more torque, more capacity, nor a turbo, hence it wont build up enough inertia to need brembo brakes. a formula 1 driver tested the CTR on the track, he felt that it was fun and felt like a Type R if you kept it above 5000rpm, so you cant really complain until you start pushing it that hard, and if its good enough for an F1 driver, why should we complain?Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
so far most of the problems seem liveable. its not like the engine is gonna drop out and flip the car whilst driving at 60km/h, which is the target audience, people who dont want a fast car but wouldnt mind a car with a bit of sportyness.
you also cant really compare JDM Civic to AUDM Civic, because their car might be cheaper, but it costs them around $2000 for the first 3 years rego, and then another $2000 or so for every other 2 years of rego, so they need a lower price to appeal. we pay half that, if even that for rego over here.
that and the government would probably find a way to make a killing out of it. ie. The Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution would also cost around $40000 if mitsubishi dealers didnt have to comply it thru SEVS (from what i hear, this was brought in by the government, so they have to), so even if we got the JDM CTR, it would cost $40000 if not more. most people would probably flame my stupidity for this, but as far as i am aware, there's also a rule that states that you can no longer import a vehicle if a vehicle of the same chassis is already available locally from the factory.
that and i dont think anyone would want to import it anyway. with the sevs importing scheme, last time i checked, dealers have to pay $20k to buy the licence to import the vehicle, plus pay to have models of the vehicle crash tested (so you'd probably end up forking out $81000 to buy three CTRs to have them smashed to bits), then they have to pay a rather large chunk of the sale price of the vehicle for Sevs as well. So thats like $100k before you even start selling a car that most people wouldnt pay for, because honestly, if people wanted power, why fork out $40000 for a 200bhp car when for the same price, or less, you could import an Evo VI, GTR34, GT-T, RX7, etc.?
We could just conclude that the Type R is a safer sports car for its price bracket, designed on allowing people to have a bit of fun with minimal chance of wrapping it around a pole like most people seem to do when they get their hands on a high powered turbo rwd.
personally, i think fwd is more fun, but thats just my opinion.
My non-car friends all like the CTR, it seems to be getting that mass market appeal.
As much as the JDM FD2 sedan is a better performance drivers car than our CTR FN2 (haven't driven them but it seems that way), I am not sure the sedan would have had as much mass market appeal.
Sure us Type R/Honda fans would love it, heck if the FD2 came here I'd sell a kidney, but I think the hatch is appealing to the broader Aus market.
What I don't understand is that the JDM FD2 is $13000 cheaper, that's a huge profit margin Honda AU could be making even for selling less cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
Probably mostly due to the fact its made in Japan (no need to ship overseas) and that is the general "price" of cars over there compared to here ? Im sure if such a car was released in AU , without honda making such a big profit the price would be similar ( to the FN2) or more.
Re: Brembos... DC2R has single piston OEM brakes and IIRC it out stopped every car in Motor's BYFB in 2000.
Re: LSD... VSA better for road-biased, LSD most likely better for track-biased (helps stop inside wheel spinning on corner exit).
Hello...Marketing, these guys get paid millions to say these things and then they're probably given 2 or 3 for personal use.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverAMV
You have to probably take out a loan to buy yours.
And you raised a good point, I rather fork out 40K to get an Evo than the new CTR (which other than looking like a UFO, has nothing special about it)
Marketing alert... just like the Honda video with FN2 versus EP3, where the FN2 appears to be whipping the EP3 easily through corners. On the track you generally pull away very slowly from similar cars, it's not usually that simple.
If the FN2 does actually do that then I should eat my words, however The Stig's laptimes weren't that fast, so I just don't believe that video. (This is not FN2 bashing, it's marketing bashing! For those with FN2's enjoy them!)
I remember the good old days when the R was sold.. :
thinner glass for lighter weight
options radio
no sun roof
semi seam welded, strengthened chasis
LSD for the track
independent suspension
close ratio 5 speed
no deadening
It was even advertised as a race car in a box. Known for its racing heritage.
Now its got a racing start button eheheh..
There is nothing wrong with the car... just that the definition of type R is as defined by WIKI :
The design of Type R ("R" for "Racing") models was originally focused on race conditions, with an emphasis on minimizing weight, and maximizing performance potential (e.g. engine tuning, suspension set-up, etc). Thus, Type R models were first conceived for racetracks.
One day my children are gonna say, "Daddy, the truck driver is here with the type r 1 tonner to deliver the fridge".
I cant state enough there is not 1 single thing wrong wiht the car. Its just that the type r marque will never be remembered in AUS as a race car in a box, designed for speed, handling and rawness. This is a shame.
Nevertheless this is a great car and should sell well.
Its really a shame that an AUS type r will never be on par with a JDM R. makes me kinda sad ;( (Back to buying a dc2r).
ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by e240
HEHEH so would i after seen it in action in a jap dvd...
As far as the UK spec one. Felt slower than a DC2r DC5r.
JDM CTR made the JDM DC5R look like a very slow heap in this DVD,,
It crossed the line virtualy neck to neck with a NSX TypeS,
leaving the S2000 and 350z miles back...
The CTR that is in the same family line as the DC2R that you love is the FD2. Not this FN2. This FN2 is a hot hatch. It is not a track weapon like the JDM-designed Type Rs. Why can't all of you understand this?Quote:
Originally Posted by slipangle
Complain that Honda Australia is not bringing in the FD2, that's fine. But there is no point complaining that the FN2 doesn't have Brembos or an LSD, because even in the original UK version, it is not an option!
Hi guys, I've just recently arrived from singapore and have tested and bought the new CTR, supposed to be delievered in 2 weeks. Compared to my base dc5 (although not much of a comparison) feels alot more planted on the corners. You can quote me on this, i would much rather have LSD, brembos, recaros and double wishbones than a climate controled glovebox and cruise control. I have driven a jdm dc5r and a b18 eg9, they are way more fun to drive. The reason i settled for the CTR is that i just can't stand 2nd hand cars and old interiors. Looks like the brembos and lsd will have to come out of my own pocket. Thanks Honda. Look out for a red CTR in melbourne soon!
Come out to the Melb meets and show off your CTR when you get it!Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ary
oh ok, so Type R means Type Road. Thanks, I kept thinking Honda kept the same principals as the DC2R. My Bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
Why are people standing up for this car soo badly? It's a nice car, but just admit it's not a Type R and we'll all be happy. Type R is crazy, stupid, fun, loud off the shelf track car. This thing isn't.
As I said, the Type R you fondly remember is the FD2 CTR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moya
I saw one CTR @ St George Hospital!!!!
Must be one of those doctors in there....
:thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn: :thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn: :thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn::thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moya
I'm not standing up for the car. I was stating facts.
Look at what I drive and have for 7 years. Read this whole thread and see what I have posted. Go to clubitr and look at the mess we made to today about CTR.
Why is it so hard for people (moya) to actually read whole threads before posting?
The fact is Honda Australia wanted a mass market appeal Type R. The fact is I want a track car. FN2 does not equal track car like DC2R.
So the facts I was stating show it to be more of a Road Car, rather than a Type R, and I'm supporting it somehow? Wouldn't that show I'm demonstrating it's a road car, not a track car? :thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moya
lol at that! poor nsx, it looked like he had to slip stream a few laps. but that vid doesnt really mean that the civic is better than the nsx. tsukuba is a mid to low speed course, so where the civic had the advantage was with the low gear cornering, helped by the close ratio box. stick em on a higher speed circuit like ebisu and the nsx would own the civic. the only that shocked me about that vid was the s2000, the gear ratios were closer than the civics, and it still lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by locote
Quote:
Originally Posted by locote
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70257Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverAMV
Autocar in the UK have driven the FD2.I think the car would be probably too hard for even the hardcore enthusiast.:rolleyes:It only really seems to be a track car according to the "First drive" impressions of the write up.
I wonder if the suspension set up is even harder than the DCR2 ?
A fantastic car but,seems to be quite harsh as an everyday car.
I wouldn't mine if Honda Australia imported a limited number for the hardcore enthusiasts,but I wouldn't be one of the buyers.:)
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...Type-R/226473/
http://www.renault.com.au/docs/renau...RSmeganeF1.asp
Anytime over the FN2 and look ... BREMBOs!!!!! Hahaha...
hehehe... i nearly bought one of the 5-door cup versions last month. far and away, the best stock fwd car i've ever driven. It actually felt more nimble than any of the modded dc2's and ek's i've driven over the years. heaps more usable grunt too. the only gripes i had were lousy plastics and the open diff.
in the end, the dealer wouldn't come to the party on the trade with the euro. so here i am. :honda:
But but...brembos! & and LSD!!! LOL and almost the same price as the FN2...Quote:
Originally Posted by ginganggooly
So much for the Brembos will drive the cost up excuse from Honda.
What about Suzuka?Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverAMV
NSX Type S - 2:35.44
Evo VI RS - 2:36.50
RX-7 Type RS - 2:35.81
R34 GTR V-spec - 2:39.56
and....
FD2 CTR - 2:35.20
Yes, the CTR is fast. Because it has racing suspension. When tested even on the freeway, the passengers in the car were bouncing about.
"When tested even on the freeway, the passengers in the car were bouncing about." lol
You Tube FTW
http://youtube.com/watch?v=osJRUhgWkpo
How timely that autocar review is. It summarises a lot of key issues and only makes me appreciate the JDM car even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
Some interesting points;
- "wait for the boys at Swindon to pull their fingers out and offer us the much-mooted, full fat, Type-RR." Huh? anyone have any details?
- "But it’s also light; 1250kg, says Honda, making it 83kg lighter than the Brit Type-R we weighed six months ago."
-"the first one Litchfield got in his workshop was actually knocking out 238bhp at 8600rpm." That's approx 175kw.
- "there’s no sound deadening insulation here."
- "It steers more precisely and fluently than the Brit Type-R too, thanks to hydraulic rather than electric power assistance"
I suspect a large part of the track time gains (esp at Suzuka!) were a result of the tyre technology. Still, it is a very convincing package...and funnily enough, I don't find the DC2R's ride too harsh for public roads.
VERY FARK"N WELL SAID LAD!!!
nuff said - mods please close thread item NOT SOLD................HAHHAHAhahahha ROFL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipangle
rofl.......
reply on if interested !
*bans everyone*
couldnt have said it better...
I am wondering if all these backers of the type r have ever owned or tracked a type r... do it once and its in your blood for life
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipangle
shhh I wont tell if you don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Spoiler005.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...torshow007.jpg
I can understand that you've probly seen more than your fair share of tyre kickers but I think you've beaten that "well are you in the car market!!! have you driven a new hot hatch" arguement to death now lets move on.
lol nice ride, my mrs took delivery of hers yesterday in blueish silver :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by MKI4EVA
but auto :thumbdwn:
her brother takes delivery of the CTR tomorrow
*runs away
yeah, lol, i just saw that vid, and now the car defends itself, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
someone link this thread to honda.au............they need to see this shet.
If im free during the week i'm gonna call them and tyre kick them to death........hehehhehe.
Anyone want to org a cruise to honda.au? make it into the papers would be a crack up
yah a real crack up....
if honda australia didnt decide to bring out the sports civic model they could have had a chance to bring in the JDM civic type R in low numbers ...that would have been a great alternative...
Hmmm... in the whole scheme of things, I don't think this thread will make that much of a difference to Honda Au as they will be vindicated in their decision by the fact that they will sell every one of these CTRs. I don't doubt that.
Though, I am very dubious of the overall effectiveness of this venture as an image enhancing exercise within an (admittedly) small group of dedicated enthusiasts.
this CTR is not aimed at a proper enthusiast at all -
not any kid here that is naturally progressing from say a DC2R to a more mature car etc is going to pick a new CTR over say a evo 9 etc .
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Well said, my sentiments exactly.
i went and took a good look at one today at scotts artarmon... it really does look MUCH better in the metal... black with red interior, the seats were a bit more for fat arses than my car, and one thing i really truly hated was that i sat so high in the car, felt like i was sitting on it not in it... but then it is a hatchback...
the little luxuries were very very tempting, like dual zone cc, cruise control and all that crap... but reading this thread now, now LSD??? and you put a R badge on it... that must be why it costs to get the stickers down the side.
It would have to be a tremendous performer to win me over... stay tuned for the test drive this Saturday
Yeah, looks like ive got a silver one to test Monday nite, ill post up what I think
Just read the Aug Motor magazine with the test of the CTR / Golf GTI and Mazda MPS. The golf wins the contest but they don't do any performance testing due to the weather.
Interestingly they say the CTR has a final drive ratio of 5.062. Pretty sure that is shorter than the DC5R which no doubt helps acceleration to 100kph.
Although they do say this:
Our performance testing was a wash-out, but I reckon Honda's official claims of 6.6 to 100km/h and 14.8 for 0-400m might require a wing and a prayer. Or two.
Golf feels much brisker off the mark than the Type R and punchier everywhere else. GTI has seamless, useable urge when squeezing part-throttle, pulls cleanly in any gear and absolutely kills the Type R for in-gear rolling acceleration and response.
Wow, they make the Golf GTI sound like a power machine!The Megane RS,Astra VXR,Focus XR5,have a faster in gear acceleration and are quicker over the 1/4 mile than the GTI.I mean ,really 15.3sec for the 1/4 mile by the GTI (as quoted by some reviews)is rather pedestrian for a turbo charged car.If someone checks out the EVO Mag.issue where they test the Civic Type R practically every in-gear acceleration of the GTI is slower than all the other competitors bar the Type R.
If the JDM CTR was available,that too would lose the comparison for the same reason or something like "Ouch the ride is very firm".
That's the reason why I don't like Motor magazine and prefer Wheels instead. At least wheels posts all the times they get in addition to the driver, track, temperature and weather.
Drive.com.au have just done a write up(dated 11/07) on the Type R they gave it 4/5 stars the same as the Golf GTI.
The Madza 3 MPS scored 4.5 /5 stars.
This review was quite favourable to the CTR.
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...eID=41617&vf=2
the golf does seem quick off the mark due to the additional torque. (i think its almost 100lbs/in more)Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
The finish inside is just arse and the seats! i could go on all day about how bad the seats are.
You have to upgrade to leather just to get rid of the awful trim colors. an extra 3k expense.
To put it simply the golf is just boring, an A to B car with some stick when you want it.
and as far as i know yfin thats the correct FD ratio. Dc2r was 4.7 and the new type R is 5.062.
drove the golf for a half a day but Honda dealership was very protective of the Type R. I don't think they realized how serious we were until we started spec'ing one up in the office.
You can't sell a sports car if all you do is drive it in traffic and down some side streets.
If pure sales service sold cars then Volkswagen would have sold me a car. Even Audi gave us a S3 which is a $65k car for 2hrs without a chaperon.
The first dealer we went to said they weren't going to put a CTR demo car on the road. :confused:
how do they expect to sell cars if you can't test drive them.
Honda Australia really needs to pull its head out of its ass if they want to sell these cars.
My mate had the same problem with his XR5, no Ford dealer down here had a demo! Every time they got one in someone bought it!Quote:
Originally Posted by CTR Coupe
In the end he bought one just from magazine reviews, took nearly 6 months to get here but he loves every minute of driving it! And they are awesome, the sound, the feel, the torque! :thumbsup:
Interesting comparison between the JDM and UK car;
http://www.crash.net/motoring/review...5487~pid~0.htm
we have a demo, but we wont and i know 3 of my mates at other dealers will NOT give one to a customer for half a day, we must be in the car for a test drive.
The reasons are rather simple on why we wont let it out for half a day for a test drive without being present.
Same as ford next door with the XR5.
taken from the article:Quote:
Originally Posted by slipangle
Quote:
The JDM ride is still hard, but feels more compliant and better executed than it does in the UK car and, despite the hardcore rubber, there’s plenty of traction
Quote:
“I had high hopes for the new version but, having driven it, I'm not sure if I like what it's become. In fact, I'm just not quite sure what it wants to be. I'm not complaining about the way it looks, it's well equipped and – if it weren’t for that ride – comfortable, with great seats and a very funky interior. But that's not what the Type-R should be about. There’s just something missing” I couldn’t agree more.
heh... oh dear