Your service centre updated you on a Sunday????Quote:
Originally Posted by shakkas
That's service!!!
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Your service centre updated you on a Sunday????Quote:
Originally Posted by shakkas
That's service!!!
you read too many books on theory., so call it what you will. I wonder how much practical experience you have rebuilding engines. The most important thing is at is not pre ignition, which by the way can also be caused by incorrect ignition timing. It is definitely a post combustion sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Lol. You've worked out that we are in agreement; that it is a post-combustion sound just as Honda said and that it is pinging/pinking/knock and not pre-ignition.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
However, I doubt that pre-ignition can be caused by incorrect ignition timing because by definition pre-ignition is an event that occurs before the spark plug fires and the spark plug can only fire when it is timed to do so. Once the spark plug fires then a "sound" event is post-combustion.
No, I have no experience in rebuilding engines and I respect those that do as I grew-up around cars; spending my spare moments in car workshops of one sort or another; watching.
Pax Vobiscum.
We are not in agreement at all, engine pinging in the trade is pre ignition, not post ignition.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Well I posted previously that I had no pinging but now I'm not so sure? I've done 2300km's on the Euro now and it's had this metal ball rattling noise coming from the engine for awhile now. It used to happen only when on low revs / gear but it also seems to occur while I'm cruising on the freeway at 100km/h.
This kind of noise I used to hear in my 350Z but it was once off only every now and then and the car was 3 years old, so I thought it was normal.
I normally have the stereo on so I don't worry too much about that rattling noise ...
Alright I have contacted my dealership to see if they know anything about this pinging noise and what they have stated is the software and component upgrade will be available mid June and to contact Honda Customer Relations to register my vehicle once the fix becomes available.
So for the record in Perth - for this dealership (Prestige Honda) anyway there's only about 3 people's that's recorded as having reported the pinging issue!
Your trade is in error. And there is nothing wrong with reading books. They are a store-house of knowledge. Otherwise we'd have to remember everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarti...tentId=7009025
http://enc.slider.com/Enc/Engine_knocking
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=104
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...20471/knocking
http://dictionary.babylon.com/engine%20knocking
And from the MRT Performance website:
"Detonation (also called knock, knocking or spark knock, pinking or pinging) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events."
"Pre-ignition: Another condition that is sometimes confused with detonation is "pre-ignition." This occurs when a point within the combustion chamber becomes so hot that it becomes a source of ignition and causes the fuel to ignite before the spark plug fires. This, in turn, may contribute to or cause a detonation problem.
Instead of the fuel igniting at the right instant to give the crankshaft a smooth kick in the right direction, the fuel ignites prematurely (early) causing a momentarily backlash as the piston tries to turn the crank in the wrong direction. This can be very damaging because of the stresses it creates. It can also localize heat to such an extent that it can partially melt or burn a hole through the top of a piston!
Pre-ignition can also make itself known when a hot engine is shut off. The engine may continue to run even though the ignition has been turned off because the combustion chamber is hot enough for spontaneous ignition. The engine may continue to run-on or "diesel" and chug erratically for several minutes.
To prevent this from happening, some engines have a "fuel cutoff solenoid" on the carburetor to stop the flow of fuel to the engine once the ignition is turned off. Others use an "idle stop solenoid" that closes the throttle completely to shut of the engine's air supply. If either of these devices is misadjusted or inoperative, run-on can be a problem. Engines with electronic fuel injection don't have this problem because the injectors stop spraying fuel as soon as the ignition is turned off."
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Never argue with a professor who believes his books are 100% correct, even though theory has been proven wrong many times.
I think I am in the same boat as you Primetimex. Over the last few weeks I have noticed something like a metallic rattle when the engine is under load. My car has just rolled over 5,000 k's and I have probably noticed it over the past 500 - 1000 k's. Will have to contact my dealer tomorrow I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimex
That must be unfortunate, but then again the 82 Commie and 89 Mazda have been rebuilt...by me...atleast the engine in my VZ Commie does not rattle, but then again...it uses a bucket load of fuel (who cares fuel card) and the rest of it will fall apart in 3 years (end of lease) and some P plater will think its cool...Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
Update, engine still rattles, and as has been said I cannot see it being at the detriment to the engine, if this was occuring on a turbo car I would be extremely worried, will just wait patiently for a fix.
Oh and as for horror stories, Mazda Rx8's having done 40,000km's just out of warranty requiring rebuilds as the apex seals are having gaps of 40thou compared to most decent rotary engine builders clearancing apex seals to 2-3thou...and Mazda don't give a crap...
I usually don't notice the noise when the stereo system is on - normal volume nothing too loud or silly, so it doesn't really bother me.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
Like I said I have heard this noise in my 350Z, so I don't think it's unsafe it's just that it occurs far more often in the CU2 so perhaps Honda's got to do a bit more work in their engine area.
You're quite right SteveH - the rattle is most often heard when the engine is under load / accelerating - soon as the engine is off load / cruising along is fine. Maybe it's true what someone's said here - the CU2 engine's hit the limit at CL9 some years back and Honda's simply pushed it too far to get a few Kw to push all that extra 200kg's on!
why cant they just put the Euro R engine on CU2 instead... oh why... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimex
Maybe Honda deems it unnecessary here to put the Euro R engine and also cost / competitive pricing considerations.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
Would be even nicer if a CU2 can have V6 200kw+ engine I think that's really the only thing missing from the current gen Euro - a meaty enough engine to push its bulk around.
I'm currently using the CU2 now as daily driver work, home etc to put on enough kilometres to see whether the rattling gets any worse or about the same.
Ok, I think the most alarming thing is that NO official documentation to euro owners has been made from Honda Australia. Dealers have no idea what is going on and are just telling us different things.
Parents Euro was in the dealership yesterday getting the handbrake replaced. Anyway dealer told us the third story of a fix is on the way and we will notify you to bring your car in.
The car has 21000k's on it and when we first took it back to the dealer they said the fuel octane wasnt good enough. It was being filled up with shell v-power and we took it back and said we did, we do and we will fill it up with PULP. It took a long conversation for them to then tell us it was a problem and wont affect the engine. Still haven't received any writing fom dealer or HONDA OZ about the issue.
Between having problems including often having a random jerk at take off, handbrake replaced, rattling rear parcel shelf, windscreen rattle, seat memory failing and pinging honda has basically done nothing. The pinging is a rather embarrasing sound on a 'high performance' 148kw naturally aspirated 'luxury' car.
BTW we purchased the car in june last year,reported the 'pinging' to the dealer in July at first service. I can personally tell you that Honda has known about the problem since July last year. I understand that it takes time to engineer and rectify the issue but with no guidance from Honda what is everyone supposes to do and think.
The dealer the car was purchased fro,m in a South Western Sydney area,(that is specific enough) has been incompetent, Bull#hitting there way through problems and just in general lousy. It took them roughly 3-5 months to order a new handbrake assembly. As they had to get it from Japan.... SURE
Also, there is a rattle on the front central cup holder when it is open. Apart from this and the odd 200kg of extra weight compared to its main competitior i like the car.
Its not making a very good reputation for a company that is so assuring of their quality product. This can equal a resale problem.
When issues like this happend to Subaru and some other car company(i cant remember), they stopped production till they fixed the problem, in this case we are under the impression nothing is happening and no one cares. Improve your act on this issue honda.
Sorry to hear all your problems with your CU2 OranParkAddict - hopefully they'll all be fixed to your satisfaction soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by OranparkAddict
You're quite right - Honda really needs to improve their act on their supposedly 148kw naturally aspirated luxury engine.
The first thing I hear when I mentioned pinging to the Service Manager was that "did you fill up with premium unleaded fuel - preferably 98 Octane?" to which I replied of course there is nothing else.
This standard reply re: premium fuel is just total rubbish - CU2 can and should run on 95Octane as stated in the manual period. No ifs and buts.
Fact of the matter is the engine is flawed and needs fixing.
For me, I ignored it as I can't really hear the engine pinging when music is on!
Just need to persuade Honda Australia to persuade Honda Japan to make some RHD CU2 with the 3.5L V6 engine. The LHD version is about to go on sale in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimex
Hear, hear! And so say all (most) of us! There is a reason why there's all that free space under the bonnet.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
"The Philistine not only ignores all conditions of life which are not his own but also demands that the rest of mankind should fashion its mode of existence after his own". Johann Wolfgang von GoetheQuote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
PS Enjoy your mind.
Strangely the problem you have is more than anyone else got in this forum... I've heard about pinging issue, but for the rattle and all... heck my cousin new BMW series 5 has all the rattle you can get (5 spots inside the car that I can count from test drive it once). He complains to BMW, and after 2-3 months no response (and "fake" fix from BMW dealer) He finnally sold it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OranparkAddict
What I'm trying to say here, you cant have a 100% perfect car that doesnt have anything to bother you at all. This pinging issue is really a bad thing and need to be fix, but for the rest of the problem? I think most, if not all, car sort of having this problem. After having Civic Sports before purchasing the CU2, I'm happy enough with the condition and the build quality of the CU2 (havent got pingin issue myself, but I think it just a matter of time for all auto).
And like I sed before, 1 year is nothing compare to the problem me and ppl found on 2001 Honda Civic before, and they just release the fix on 2006.
also, you said CU2 is 200kg heavier than its competitor. What is CU2 competitors that 200kg lighter?
anyway, just my 2 cents...
Mazda6 is 100kg lighter, and Liberty 2.5 is 150kg lighter. Not sure which car is 200kg lighter.... Maybe Mazda3?
FWD V6? Both the Accord V6 and Aurion suck compared to Falcon and Commodore (to drive). RWD FTW!Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimex
Even camry still under 100kgs different... taken from "Aurion specification summary PDF" (LOL!!!! Toyota doesnt even have quality checking on the item posted on their website)
the page: http://www.toyota.com.au/camry/specifications read the 'Download PDF' section at the bottom (sorry but cant help it :p)
I totally agree with that comment, Those sort of power figures in a FWD vehicle do nothing for handling and can only result in plow understeer. You would also loose the advantage of the excellent fuel economy that is possible from the CU2, which for many of us is a major plus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Don't forget the easy $60k+ price tag for a V6 CU2 on the road, going on their current pricing.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
Soooooooo many better cars out there for that price.
That is the best thing about my CU2. I got a whole lot of car for $35k. How many cars come close to the features of the base model for the price?
agreed :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Even @ 60K a CU2 luxury with full body kit, F & R bumpers & a nice set of 19" wheels would be hard to beat
There is nothing wrong with choice. Honda could increase market share if they sell both the 2.4L and the 3.5L in OZ.
I've not owned a car with more than 4 cylinders. I would be interested in a V6 Euro as I feel I won't be able to justify a V6 in 5 years time and I would like to sample a dose of grunt.
I was really hoping there will be a 3.5 v6 in the 2nd gen euro..Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Article in the carsguide today stated honda have a solution to the pinging problem. It sounded like an update to the ECU software
And here's the article: http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/ne...m_being_fixed/Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodak
The article states that there's only 60 cars maximum that are affected in OZ and that there are only a handful in the USA.
What a load of cods-wallop! I think that all CU2's are affected; in many cases the owners don't know it and so haven't reported it.
Question to Type R positive, are you effected by this so called pinging problem? It seems a certain member on this forum believes all CU2's are effected. I don't believe that is the case, whats your opinion?
This guy from honda is talking crap. He says " We don't know what the issue is, as yet,"
"But the good news is that we had an issue, and there is a counter- measure. It's an electronic or ECU issue, not a mechanical issue."
Firstly, he says they don't know what the issue is. Then secondly, he goes on to say it's an electronic or ECU issue. How is it possible to fix a problem 100% if you don't know what the issue is ? It may be entirely possible the issue may arise again if they haven't found the source of the issue.
I'd like to know exactly how they came up with this fix. Did they actually study the cars concerned in extensive detail to find a common cause then compare it in the same extensive detail to a known CU2 car that is not reporting this issue. There are thousands of different parameters that they can study on the car and unless they have done detailed analysis on everyones cars i wouldn't feel entirely 100% confident they have the solution.
There is a comments section associated with that article. Why doesn't every one with the problem write in to say their car is affected then everyone will get a true picture as to how extensive this problem is. It may even open Honda's eyes and make them realise it's much more extensive than they are reporting. Also it's a very public domain and I'm sure Honda won't want to see too much bad publicity there.
Some people make me laugh, did you ever think that the guy who did the interview does not know what the problem is? Lets just wait & see what the outcome is before criticizing people unjustifiably. If the countermeasure they are talking about does not rectify the problem people can complain all they like, but until that time we need to be patient.Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
Personally, I think the problem is so minor I am not concerned about it in any way. From your details you own a 2007 Euro which is not effected, so i can't see what your beef is.
I know my car is not affected. But I have had to deal with HA with other issues and their service is poor. It appears this guy is trying to covering up the extent of the number of cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
By saying 60 people maximum are affected he is implying that the problem is minor and not that widespead. Whilst the problem might be minor may mislead future buyers into believing that if they were to buy a new Accord Euro today then there will be a very, very small probability they will buy a pinging car. Whereas if he was to state that there are actually 500 (this is a hypothetical number) cars out there with the problem then a prospective buyer would probably think twice before they buy the car just incase they ended up with a pinging car.
My point is that I'm sure that more than 60 cars out there have this problem. And I'm sure Honda and Honda dealers have had more than 60 reports of problem from the owners.
I have no facts or figures on the number of cars effected & i have a CU2 Auto.Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
I am also certain you have no ideas on the number of cars effected & speculation is just that.
We should deal with facts only, anything else is unhelpful to everyone. The fact I can report is I personally know of 4 CU2 Auto's & mine is the only 1 effected, to an extent it is so minor that it presents no concern to me.
Another important fact is only a very small percentage of Honda Owners use this forum & you rarely hear from a person who has no problems. I would also go as far as to say there is a high percentage of owners who don't even know this forum exists, add to that the number of people that don't have a computer or internet access.
This forum would be so much better if people dealt with facts only, and had qualifications to back up there comments.
Exactly my point. In your own circle 25% of cars have the problem. This forum represents a very small number of total owners out there. There would have to be almost 60 people on here that have reported the problem. Therefore it's much more wide spread than 60 cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
If you can see through HA smoke screen then you can extrapolate the data and see the problem is probably more widespread than they are reporting. At the end of the day who wants to purchase anything, especially a car that has a potential fault or problem.
So buddad51au, you have been involved with this thread from the start and have read accounts from many other owners on here with the so called problem. Considering that people on this forum only make up a tiny percentage of all Accord Euro owners out there, do you believe the guy from HA when he says
"It's a handful of cars. We've sold 9000 or 10,000 Euros in the past year and it's around 60 vehicles maximum."
Does any one believe the above comment?
At the end of the day i would buy another Euro tomorrow, there is nothing else in the market that comes close to it for value.Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
Fact, as of April 20 the dealership i am involved with has sold 382 CU2 Autos with 5 reported cases. that equates to slightly under 1.5% so where you get the figure of 25% from is beyond my imagination. whether there are 60 cars or 600 cars is irrelevent as long as a solution is found.
Oh, and for your information I don't work for the dealer so those figures are unbiased and factual. I do know the staff there well and we have discussed this problem in depth. We also went to the extent of having a CU2 on a Dyno for 3 hours trying to replicate & diagnose this problem. We were unable to hear the so called pinging with the bonnet raised due to drive train noise. It can only be heard inside the car with the radio & fan off and we were not able to duplicate it under repeatable engine loads or RPM. It is a very strange problem & definitely not pre ignition.
After almost 40 years in the Motor Trade I think I know a little bit, my personal opinion is there are very few cars in the market place that can match Honda for Build Quality and Reliability, Regardless of the price range of a given vehicle.
Honda for Build Quality and Reliability[/QUOTE]
This is very true. It's why our family keeps buying Honda cars (have 3 atm) because their build quality and reliability are exceptional especially considering the price.
I agree with a lot of what you say and I belive Honda make exceptional cars for their value, and I know you have a lot more experience and knowledge about cars than what I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
What I am questioning is the honesty of HA to come out with the statement and figures that they have put out in the public domain. I honestly think they are under quoting the true figures. And it's in their interest to do so. It's coming to the end of year sales and I'm sure that they are expecting to unload a heap of new Euros between now and the end of the financial year. If they were to come out with a much larger figure that would no doubt put potential sales of the CU2 in coming months in jeopardy. And who ever likes to come out and publically show their branded product in a bad light. Hence the very conservative figure they have put out in that report.
At the end of the day one would like to think that when we communicate with HA that they will be honest and upfront in their communication
What can you get for $60k with a 3.5L or larger V6, other than an Aurion, Commodore, Falcon and Magna? Assume the buyer is oldish (with the 60k cash) and want an NA engine (or a Saab/Volvo turbo), so turbo pocket rockets are out of the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type R Positive
Let me try ta answer that as honestly as i can after years of experience. It is very hard to communicate with anyone from Honda Australia, or from any other Motor Vehicle Manufacturer for that matter. The primary reason is due to high staff turn over which has always been the case in the motor industry. Very few people stay in 1 position for long periods. The primary reason for this is it has always been a low paying trade to be involved in and people are always on the lookout for greener pastures.Quote:
Originally Posted by unity
The same goes when dealing with dealerships, people don't stay in a given workshop for long. Dealerships themselves are generally regarded to be at the bottom level of the pay scale for mechanics, so turnover is quite high, that is the reason for the current trend towards Asian Mechanics in Dealerships. Any Business is only as good as the people working for that business, when staff turnover is high it is very hard to build and maintain a reputable business.
As for people being up front and honest with their customers, I have no doubt they try to be, but you are often dealing with a different person each time, therefore previous conversations with a customer are unknown.
Unfortunately, that is the nature of the Motor Trade. I guess i have a big advantage over most other people in that I have the knowledge and know how to service & diagnose problems with my own vehicles. Sure the would be some manufacturers who would be unhappy about that and possibly even try to void warranty to me for that reason, but legally i know where i stand. This experience also allows me to know what is a detrimental problem and what is not, and I have seen some classics over the years even on high end vehicles.
My view is the Honda Accord from the late 80"s on has been the best car in their class ( with the possible exception of 98 to 03 when we only had the Thai Accord imported here). While there is no such thing as a perfect car regardless of price, there have been very few, if any major problems with Accords (pre 98) or Euro's (post 03). I have seen many of the earlier accords with well over 400,000km without major problems & I believe Euro's will deliver the same longevity (providing they are treated properly & serviced regularly....beyond what is recommended in the service book )
This Current so called Pinging Issue is no doubt an annoying and frustrating problem to some & I hope it gets sorted out. I firmly believe it is not a detrimental problem & I have no concerns about it effecting the longevity of my vehicle. Regardless of the current problem my advice to people in the market for this class of car is Nothing Comes Close to the Euro including the Mazda 6. A bigger statement is I personally rate the Euro in front of a 4 cly 3 series BMW, Audi A4 & Lexus IS250. I know ther will be lots of disagreements with that last comment but so be it.
Good points there. Let's hope for everyones sake there is a happy ending for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
It's so true that almost every time you have to contact HA or the dealership you end up having to speak to someone new. In my case the first time I had to call my dealership with a concern the sales person that had sold me my car had already left.
Where it gets most frustrating for me is that I am in a job whereby I'm dealing with the public all the time. I set my standards high when it comes to providing customer service. It's so annoying when you get a level of customer service that is way below the level of service that you yourself would have provided to that person if they had been your customer.
457 Visa workers; not "asian".
Affecting affected affect.
The chief mechanic at my local dealership has been there for 23 years. If his job is low paid and he hasn't looked for greener pasture, does that make him dodgy?
There is an exception to every rule, but it would be very rare to see anyone outside of their apprenticeship stay at any 1 dealer for over 3 or 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
As for Asian mechanics, who cares what visa it is called. What I can tell you is in this town the Holden, Ford & Toyota Dealerships employ Filipino mechanics on 1 year contracts. They have no formal training standards in their own countries, but are hired by certain dealerships to service & repair cars for low pay and high labour rates.
So there is another subject for you to find a book on, research it and post an unqualified opinion.
That's right, only Australia has training and standards. That's an unqualified opinion that is in accord with yours. I didn't have to research it. I just made it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
Oops! I just researched Australian motor mechanics pay: The average is apparently $34,614 per annum.
Interestingly, the minimum pay rate for anyone visiting OZ on a 457 visa is $43,440 per annum. It seems those Filipinos are better paid than the aussie average for mechanics.
Not quite every Motor Vehicle Manufacturer. I bought a new Aurion and it was plagued with problems the moment i drove it out of the lot. It spend over 1 month at the dealership within 6 months (returned 15 times) and they still couldn't fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
Throughout this period i maintained good communications with staff at the SA Regional Office and even went in for a face to face meeting. Despite the dealers attempts to correct ths issues further complaints landed me talking directly to the brass in Melbourne including engineers and head customer relations managers.
In the end the case was resolved to my favour, especially when the Regional Manager drove miles out of their way to collect my car and settle their and then (no more Aurion).
In my mind Toyota Australia run rings around those morons at Honda Australia. They set an example of what Customer Service really is, it's a pity other manufacturers like Honda haven't the brains to follow suit.
You make it so easy to discredit your comments. How many times have you been to the Philippines? How many Filipino family members do you have who are mechanics? How many Vehicle Repair Facilities have you financed in the Philippines? Have you ever been there at all? Have you seen first hand what the Training process is for Mechanics in the Philippines? The list of questions could go on?Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
geezzz what does filipino family with working visa has to do with this problem with the CU2? :confused::confused::confused: What next? Africans is the caused why Honda release city here? Stay to the topic ppl!!!
Back to the topic: from the article they found 60 owner has the problem with ECU. make me think that this "ECU" problem is diff to the "Pinging or whatever" problem that most ppl have...
Nothing at all Denot, I made a response to UNITY in good faith, but low and behold Professor SPQR stuck his bib in & got a case of foot in mouth disease again. No comment was directed at him & he had no need to get involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
If you read the post Unity commented that i made some good points, there was no need for another to get invloved.
I don't know what your problem is but I suspect that you might be senile. We were getting on just fine going all the way back to your post (#370) where you reported the pinging issue for your car to which I posted (#372) "Sad to hear of another affected car..." but it went downhill after that when I expressed the hope that the CU2 would not in future be known as a lemon. Despite this innocuous statement, you pounced as if you had thought I'd called the CU2 a lemon. Later, we disagreed in that you seem to think that pinging and pre-ignition are the same whereas in fact they are not. You seem to have taken further exception to my quoting on this topic, for the beneficial information of all, from other sources that were not just me saying something and expecting others to believe me without question. You, on the other hand, appear to sprout Gospel at every turn without any reference to other sources other than your (no doubt) considerable experience; or so you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by buddah51au
You also did not seem to like me agreeing with aaronng that a V6 option for the Euro might be a nice alternative choice.
"The Philistine not only ignores all conditions of life which are not his own but also demands that the rest of mankind should fashion its mode of existence after his own". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
[QUOTE=SPQR;2271244]I don't know what your problem is but I suspect that you might be senile.
We are all interested and have different opinions in the Pinging issue but one thing is for sure:
There is no need to insult people.
Let's not degrade this excellent thread.
After 40 years in the Motor Vehicle Repair Industry I have learnt 1 or 2 things about cars. I joined this forum about 3 years ago to help and advise people with problems. I seriously doubt there is too much for me to personally learn from being here.
While I don't pretend to know everything there is to know ( know one does), i have seen some classic problems over my time, the worst involving Mercedes and Jaguars.
While there maybe a small problem with the CU2 Accord & a post ignition noise I personally believe an ant hill has been turned into mount everest, yes i do know about the problem as i own a CU2 Euro Auto. I also believe the problem will be resolved in due course. Rarely do you see a car that is problem free. This is harder for us customers to accept with Honda because they have built their reputation on build quality and reliability, but they are not immune to the odd problem.
I remember a high end imported limousine that took 5 years to rectify a gearbox problem.
I don't need unqualified people trying to tell me my trade. Reading books on theory has nothing to do with practical as has been proven many times.
I answer 1 member & i bring up the subject of dealeships using Filiipino mechanics, a subject I also know a little about as I have extended family in the Philippines & unfortunately i have financed 3 repair shops there & have seen the goings on there. A classic example of a repair was a Toyota with a big end bearing rattle, the filipino remedy was to remove the big end gaps and file them to reduce clearance. Do we need things like that in this country, I don't think so.
Good luck to all OZ Honda Forum members in the future as i am signing off permanently. Enjoy your rides.
^^^
Hmmm... Grats SPQR?
Anyway, I will too sign off from this thread as it becomes more and more useless everyday and will wait for Honda Australia to inform me when the fix is released (not that I got any pinging).
Peace out...
[QUOTE= ......
Good luck to all OZ Honda Forum members in the future as i am signing off permanently. Enjoy your rides.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I was afraid of.
Good posters going away = Degradation of Forum
All because some people find hard to stick to good manners when someone has different opinions. What a shame!
Where is the moderator????
Buddah - I hope you re-consider for the good of this forum and the majority of readers that value your opinion.
SPQR - If you cannot contribute to this forum without insulting people, please refrain from posting.
They aren't the biggest and the best manufacturer in the world with the worlds best standards for nothing!Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Man
Toyota = dead set legends. :thumbsup:
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapped
Don't go Buddah.
SPQR, ask any mechanic what ping is. I dare ya. My father said it's pre-ignition, and so did my father-in-law. Both have been heavy diesel fitter mechanics for all their lives.
Very sad to see people with some genuine advice to go from any forum. I don't know why it has to degrade into insults because someone has a different opinion and/or one you don't like.
A lot of what is posted is an opinion, but it should never be quoted as fact, that is when problems arise. If you don't like something, attack the post, not the person. State fact, not something that has been heard from someone else.
There is no joy in this result whatsoever but you overlook the constant derision he threw my way which started well before the Filipino mechanics matter. It was not my intention to have buddah51au leave.
I offered alternative (helpful) opinion on the nature of pinging/pinking/knocking and that other thing known as pre-ignition. I even offered references to other sources. And I had even offered peace ("pax vobiscum" or peace be with you) but got attacked instead.
Sorry SPQR but...it still does nor justify the word "senile". Attacking an opinion is one thing attacking a person is a very different thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Im new to this forum but not to vehicles and mechanics....pre-ignition = pinging.
Cheers
I don't frequent this forum often, but in view of what i have just read i spent time reading this entire thread.
All I will add is that you have all lost a very knowledgeable mechanic. Yes I knew buddah personally many years ago, he can be very stubborn & firm in his beliefs, but he did know what he was talking about.
When he was talking about his knowledge of Filipino mechanics he should know, his wife is Filipino and i personally know he has visited that country many times.
My understanding is he basically went into exile about 10 years ago after a dreadful family tragedy, much to the loss of those of us in Sydney who used his services.
SPQR, I don't know you & don't want to become involved, all I will say is he always gave sound & solid advice.
Fark me...what a bunch of women.
Buddah, PM your email addy, we can continue our discussion about manufacturer F-ups off forum!!
Oh and for the record, look in the poll, I have found loose exhuast bolts and have re-tightened all of them using avaiation grade locktite (heat resistance of course) a product we use on the race cars manifold bolts and it seems to have made the problem disappear.
SPQR, not to jump on the band wagon, but I find most of your posts rude and obnoxious, you can correct my spelling if you so desire...carry on in your dream world of theory...
This thread has been quite for a while.
It is June (The month given by Honda for the availability of the pinging fix) and I was wondering if anybody has heard from Honda about the solution to the pinging issue.
Cheers
I've been upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapped
Are you suggesting it might be a "farting" like leak from the exhaust pipe connection to the integral exhaust manifold?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobjones
I still havnt heard any good news...
As usual, this is HONDA way!!!! :thumbdwn:
Same issue here, 20K on clock ticking as mad.
Will be giving some fuel samples this week to Honda dealer, hope Honda will come up with solution ASAP
WTF!? I thought a solution was TO BE PROVIDED this month, NOT "to be tested"???Quote:
Originally Posted by BatRambo
No Mate, this month we are providing fuel samples to Honda so they can come up with solution in the next few MONTHS. That is a complete joke, lets not mention the 50K I spend for my carQuote:
Originally Posted by nickxau
Gday Guys
Today a service adviser from Capital Honda in Phillip called to ask
me to bring the car next week Thursday as the Rep from Honda
will be applying a fix for the problem noise (ping).
I will post next week Friday and let you all know how it went.
The car has 8,500 km's and im floggin the guts out of it
and its producin the goods.:D
I received a call too. Will bring my car back Tuesday. Hope they hv the fix, not another testing.
Please, please, please let us know what they do to your cars and whether or not the fix works. If the service department references a Technical Service Bulletin number please share that as well. I am in the states and my Acura TSX has this same problem. I am hopeful that the fix makes it to the US as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eur001
Where about you guys from, which state. I called Honda dealer yesterday they said no fix is available, a call second dealer same story. NSW
Our TSBs here seem a lot harder to get hold of here than they arew in the USA. You have the service express website which puts up all TSBs across the board. We don't have a web site here that does that. Everything here seems so secretive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcabut
Ok people, as some of you know I have sold my Euro after 9 months of ownership. However, I thought it prudent to provide you all with the following information given that Honda are yet to find a fix etc.
Unfortunately, due to legal reasons I am not allowed to mention the workshop, the owner of vehicle or any other specific detail, however, I can give enough information that you, the Honda Accord Euro owning community, can make up your own mind when it comes to this problem.
Ok, here is the information that I have obtained DIRECTLY from the workshop whom undertook the tests as outlined in the following blurb.
A Honda Accord Euro owner, lets call him John, purchased an Auto Accord Euro in the last 3 months, since purchase, John has exceeded the initial "run in period of 1,000km's" and had the vehicle serviced by a Honda Dealership.
Subsequently, John has driven the vehicle maintaining extremely accurate log books for his vehicle, noting both the vehicle dispayed fuel economy and his calculated fuel economy, both of which did not differ materially. Over a couple of monthsJohn noticed no improvement in fuel economy figures, despite being an older gentleman whom drove the vehcile "like a grandma", economy in excess of 13 litres per 100km was consistently being recorded.
John, then took his vehicle to one of Australia's top performance workshops whom own and operate their own dyno. This workshop has previously dyno'd earlier Accord Euro CU2's. It was found that the latest CU2 (John's car), had a significantly high AFR ratio, showing a rich fuel mixture, higher than that of previously dyno'd vehciles. In the workshops opinion, the AFR ratios were the significant contributing factor to poor fuel economy, it was also noted that the power was less than previous Euro's of the same model.
It was noted by John that he had not experienced the now widely known "post combustion noise" as advised by Honda. Subsequent to John's visit to the workshop, a couple of other owners whom have recently purchase vehicles, post February 2009, are experiencing similar economy figures and are likely to obtain similar dyno readings when they go for testing.
Thus, as a former Euro owner, I would advise that it may be prudent for people to obtain independent testing on their Euro's, those with "post ignition noise" and those with poor fuel economy and see if there are any trends...IMHO I think there may be some...
Might also be an idea for those whom are having the "fix" performed on their vehciles, both, a pre and a post dyno run is not expensive...
I spent several hours on a Dyno at a friends workshop once i noticed the intermittent (so called Pinging noise) trying to duplicate it under varying load conditions, but unfortunately the post ignition noise has a mind of its on & cant be duplicated under any conditions. We did not take any notice of A/F ratioas i am getting outstanding economy, so that is not an issue. However i do have a base line figure for output at the wheels for future reference & will compare it when the fix finally comes out.
supposedly a post combustion noise apparently a software patch and a new nock sensor is the fix
Bob - be careful comparing dyno numbers even for the same car. I have seen a Euro on the same dyno on the same day deliver 20kw more at the wheels. This was 2 manual CL9s.
And fuel economy at 13l per 100kms is less than what Wheels was getting for real world driving in the automatic CL9. They were getting 14s around town. Is the car with the fuel economy issue an automatic? As those numbers are not that unusual. What does the car do on the highway?