2005 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbu (discussion)

Yes, I have changed my opinion on the incident. I still think Montoya was at fault, 'cos there was no reason for him to cut across. As soon as he did that, the contact was inevitable. As Monteiro said, he would have lost all downforce as soon as Montoya cut infront of him.
Monteiro should have given Montoya more space, there was no reason to crowd him. But again, why would Montoya cut back across? You just dont do that in the braking zone!

It really was a great race and a great challenging track. Look at how many drivers made mistakes. I think the fact that it rained in the morning also made the track a lot better. It didn't allow the track to rubber up, so there was less disadvantage when pulling off the racing line to overtake. I think they should hose off the track before the race every time. A clean track makes for much better racing. You also don't have the dirty track (marbles) on the inside of the braking zone.

But Jase, I disagree with your thinking the track is to blame. We need more challenging tracks, that is for sure. But the downforce on these cars is just rediculous. Even in Turkey there were only 2 places to overtake. And the car behind had to be a lot faster than the one infront to get close enough to overtake.

The cars have outgrown many of the tracks, but the cars have outgrown overtaking. They are fast becoming immune to overtaking. Look at how the cars at the back are struggling to get past the Minardis and Jordans. And the only overtaking at the front happens on the first lap when the tyres and brakes are cold.
Has there been one overtaking move for the lead in any race this season (except on the first lap)? Even when the tyres are porked, they can still defend their position. It's rediculous and has to be changed.

There have been a few blue flag issues this season. Seriously, the front runners are 3-5 seconds per lap faster than the person they're lapping... they shouldn't need the blue flags!! They should be able to carve straight past, but they can't.

Yeah most people would assume that a front runner could pass the back people very very simply. Must take some tactics for a move like that alone.

Talking about passing/overtaking, Has anyone seen the Dijon Race back in 1979? Rene Arnoux vs Gilles Villeneuve. My god we need racing like that.... They touch wheels they ovetake at least 6 times in 2 laps.... I know this wont happen even in 2008 but hey, I can hope can't I?

If anyone wants the 3 lap clip I'll post for you, Just post on this thread if you want it....

Yep Gimme
throne_of_souls@hotmail.com

K i'll upload it after skool and post link here.....

I read this on another forum, it had a bunch of people trying to compare Senna to Schumacher and this man somes it up perfectly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nafe
Actually I've been watching F1 since the mid 80s thanks.

I just don't think it's valid to compare drivers from different eras. It's like when they compile the "all time greatest" lists. How can you compare drivers like Moss, Hill and Fangio to the drivers of the 80s, 90s or current? Sure you can come up with all sorts of methods, but the periods of racing are just too different for me.

I was never a huge fan of Senna, but I did admire his skill behind the wheel greatly, especially in the wet. An absolute master of control. But the whole Senna v Schumacher arguments are littered with comparisons between different eras of racing (manual vs auto gearboxes, non-TC vs TC etc etc) and also the inevitable rose-tinted glasses. Yes, Senna was a big advocate of safety etc, but he also had no qualms in running someone off the track to win a World Championship, and even admitted as such later on. He was not without his faults, as is Schumacher. I admire both for their talent and skills, but also deplore the darker sides to their characters (or lack of with Schumi?)

So, IMHO, comparisons between eras are useless to me. I prefer to think back on drivers and compare them to the people they raced against. Not against who they could have or should have raced.

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exactly what I say, the vehicles, rules, regulations, technology and racing all together is just way too different to compare

So true. The funny thing is that most of us don't like Schumi because he plays clean, avoids accidents and still wins. Of course his car is(was) good. But Barrichello runs the same car too.

i agree with the dudes comments...
but senna n schuie did race in the same era (well sorta.. but not really lolz)... i got a vid of senna, schuie n prost fighting it out... but then again its prolly not fair to compare schuies skills back then to what hes capable of today..

*respect* to both of em...

Here is a video of the start of the Grand Prix and when Kimi retakes the lead, it is 66.79MB

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=30VLX4ZZ

Montoya gets hit and runs off the track

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=43U1FVA5

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LUD02C

I admire both for their talent and skills, but also deplore the darker sides to their characters (or lack of with Schumi?)

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That's the only reason you quoted it isn't it Jase?! :p
Michael Schumacher, the little golden boy.