[EURO] Opinions on GruppeM intake

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

Interesting, I always assumed that the air horn was design simply to draw in cold air. If the horn does serve this additional function though how does mugen get around this problem? I guess the mugen horn has been design to be that short/in that location with the funel shape. Removing the lower half of the horn on the ICEbox would mean no funnel shape.

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Chris, the mugen intake has a bell mouth as shown in the kingsmotorsports pics leading into a venturi (funnel shape) which accelerates flow, reduces static pressure (casuses suction) and increases dynamic pressure (flow velocity.

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

Matt, how do you think a pod filter effects the "flow state of the air" in comparison to a panel filter? Perhaps this (more than an additional surface area) helps pod style intakes generally produce (assumedly) more power?

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A pod filter is good in that it has a greater capture area that is less likely to be affected by area's of stagnant flow (corners) as found in an airbox of a panel filter. Ideally in terms of fluid flow the best intake filter design I've seen is the Apexi filter. If I could get one of these to fit the end of my Injen CAI I would. It may only be of theoretical benefit, and not of much practical worth on such a low powered and coarsely tuned car as the Euro, but I'd still prefer it over the bluff faced Injen/K&N Filter and even the twin cone BMC that I found to have not been as good as I hoped via a dyno in this particular application.

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Originally Posted by Matell

Chris, the mugen intake has a bell mouth as shown in the kingsmotorsports pics leading into a venturi (funnel shape) which accelerates flow, reduces static pressure (casuses suction) and increases dynamic pressure (flow velocity.

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Ah yep, I thought the funnel would have somethign to do with it. Maybe if something similar can be done/made up for the comptech icebox it would give some benifits.

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Originally Posted by Matell

A pod filter is good in that it has a greater capture area that is less likely to be affected by area's of stagnant flow (corners) as found in an airbox of a panel filter. Ideally in terms of fluid flow the best intake filter design I've seen is the Apexi filter. If I could get one of these to fit the end of my Injen CAI I would. It may only be of theoretical benefit, and not of much practical worth on such a low powered and coarsely tuned car as the Euro, but I'd still prefer it over the bluff faced Injen/K&N Filter and even the twin cone BMC that I found to have not been as good as I hoped via a dyno in this particular application.

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Thanks again for taking the time to fill me in. Would it be possible to get some sort of adapter to run the apexi filter? Yea i remember reading the results of your dyno.. was a bit dissapointing, i thought the BMC would give some gains aswell.

I should have much better/detailed photos of the gruppeM tomorrow but the filter picutred here is the same one used in the CL7 application and the adaptor to the right of the filter is similar too.

This wide based cone shape with what looks like an aerodynamicaly shaped dome on the top is probably designed to give the air better flow characteristics as it's drawn into the filter. As for the carbon heat shielding i'm not sure if it's design plays a part in this aswell? Probably there to simply avoid the heat from the engine bay.

http://www.gruppemeurope.com/terms_pix.jpg

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

This wide based cone shape with what looks like an aerodynamicaly shaped dome on the top is probably designed to give the air better flow characteristics as it's drawn into the filter. As for the carbon heat shielding i'm not sure if it's design plays a part in this aswell? Probably there to simply avoid the heat from the engine bay.

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Correct, and yes the carbon surround will act as a thermal barrier, but more importantly provide a directed mass of air into the intake tract.

Sounds good to me. Really can't wait to see this thing in more detail and on the car :D

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Originally Posted by Matell

Anyone considering removing the air horn from their icebox derived setup should also keep in mind that the primary purpose of the air-horn is to develop smooth airflow into the intake tract.

The bell-mouth allows a gradual acceleration of air particles into the opening which also reduces the static air pressure, thus creating suction. This effectively increases the intake capture area to around the sides of the intake opening and assures the airflow is reasonably uniform.

Removing the air horn will only be of detriment to the induction air flow.

In this case the flow state of the air is much more important than the intake temp change which will be negligible at best.

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love your work Mattell - thanks. very interesting.

This is what the air feed would look like - no good do you think Mattell?

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4070/Intakes009.jpg

Actually that pic above is not quite like the top part of my icebox - mine is more like this with a more funnelled top part

http://home.att.net/%7Ep.caulfield/IMG_2652.JPG

It is amazing how many different intake designs there are now for this vehicle.

You got that right yfin... The euro has HEAPS of intakes available for it - I guess we can thank the tsx and euroR for that.

Honda's in general seem to have a lot more tuning parts available then other manafacturers, you find this aswell?

as for the intake design... i'm you could make a custom lip around the top part of the comptech icebox horn.. but really i think the difference will be unnoticeable except maybe ver the last few hundred rpm in the rev range.

But i still think you should give it a go and see what you think.

Up to you to give it a go, but from a fluid flow aspect (in theory) that is bloody ugly, and not particularly desirable. You'll have separated flow on the inside of the tube, vorticies etc. I honestly can't see you gaining anything at all from it or what you're hoping to achieve in the first place.

There's nothing at all wrong with the stock bellmouth, and there'll be stuff all flow loss in the 90degree bend as it has such a large diameter and bend radius. (I could work out the exact flow condition but can't be arsed ;) )

If you really want to shorten the intake tract length so it's similar to the Mugen intake without being destructive maybe have a look at bunnings or a pump supplier and they may have a bellmouth design suitable for you.

But give it a go anyway and see what you think.

well the intake's on. Unfortuneately i didn't get a chance to take any pics pre install (the cameras battery was dead and i had to get it done quickly after uni).

Will have pics + an impressions thread done up shortly.. maybe even a sound clip or two :)

picsorban chris
u know the rules :D

yay cant wait! haha if only i had money

props to chris and his euro with mad baller mods :thumbsup:

pics now :p

sorry couldn't get pics of the intake off the car! was so disapointed when the camera shut off within a few seconds coz of a dead battery...

Thanks to raz_05 for this pic - should get some better ones up shortly :)

also excuse the dirty engine bay! eww... needs a clean

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5766/gruppem25ep.jpg