Power FC for B18C2.

that's great tinkerbell, but isn't the price that you quoted Hondata S200 for an OBD II car, without boost, so you'd have to add extra money to unlock the boost features?

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Originally Posted by yourfather

that's great tinkerbell, but isn't the price that you quoted Hondata S200 for an OBD II car, without boost, so you'd have to add extra money to unlock the boost features?

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+ $400 (RR) it seems for unit alone upgraded.

yes thanks for that, updated...

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

nope, never mentioned that, read again

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

Okay, i've taken your advice and i still get stuck at, "as my research appears to be leading me to a different conclusion..." In reference to a statement by another member suggesting that his research presented the Hondata as a superior unit. I realise that different doesn't equate to opposite, but it can easily be construed that way. So to end all confusion, in the context of your original post, does different mean different as in one unit being no better or worse than the other, or does different mean opposite.

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different as in different, i.e. my conclusion is that it might be just as “tuneable” as Hondata. That is, not any more tuneable, not any less?

To make it clear – same stuff, different colour…

Just to clarify the context of my "as my research appears to be leading me to a different conclusion..." that was directed to Shebangs who talked of “tuneability” and I wanted to know why he thought it was more tuneable?

My “different” conclusion was that they might be as “tuneable” as each other… also with specific reference later in the thread to Hondata actually having more “tuneable points” but asking if anyone could say what that this in reality provides. (I see AH HUH has indicated that his boosted DC2 with PowerFC ran quite well…)

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

i am up fro a PowerFC/Hondata swap - but who to pay for tuning?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

My guess is that if someone is willing to come to the party and agree to purchase the ECU based on the result of the shootout, the tuner may be a tad more accommodating towards this comparo. Obviously this represents a can of worms, and there are a million ways for this deal to go pear-shaped, but it'd work if everyone was as simple as i am...

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Nah, Can’o’worms is spot on!

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

but who knows? maybe that is too presumptious? maybe Hondata is the best, and no-one is telling us in an objective factual way?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

You aren't going to get an unbiased response, because at the end of the day people will either defend their purchasing decisions, defend their mates' decisions or argue for or against a product based on their feelings towards the distributor of the product. The only people that are worth listening to on this topic are the tuners, and they studiously avoid taking sides in these arguments.

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And I have resisted quoting what tuners have told me for that reason ;)

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

and how do you weight each of the pros and cons in order of importance?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

All i can see is cost vs result. What are the pros and cons of each system as you see it?

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maybe you do up a pros/cons of PowerFC, i will do a pro/con of Hondata? see how it looks?

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

is full throttle launch more desirable than a hand controller?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

The hand controller is a gimmick plain and simple.

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according to you? on what basis? have you used one extensively?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

A tuner would need to sit on the dyno for 6-8 hours to tune a car from scratch using a hand controller. Most serious tuners would be using the proper desktop software, making the hand controller a redundant "feature".

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The hand controller is not necessarily for tuning (although it can be used to tune), it is for real-time monitoring...

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

A S200 with data logging and a cheapo palm unit provides proper data-logging for a very low cost. How much is the FCdata-logit?

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~$350

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

maybe for a drag racer, but not a daily driven street car?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

What is the value of a hand controller for a daily driver? If it can't data-log, what use is it for either road or track?

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Monitoring.

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

and when determining "best", how does one factor in cost?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

How do you factor cost into any automotive performance related purchase?
It's always going to be a balancing act between anticipated results, marketing of the product and overall cost. Some people will pay a premium price for a premium product eg. Autronic. Others -myself for example- are far more price sensitive.

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Well, that could well be one of my points.

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

and how much difference does less "tuneable points" actually mean?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

I have no idea. I have assumptions of what tuneable point are, but i don't believe it is as simple as that.

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if i were to guess, i think "tuneability" and "driveability" are inextricably linked...

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

and what is the end goal?
MAX horsepower? best area under curve? smoothest idle? best fuel economy? least knock? best cold start? shortest tuning time?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

What is the end goal for pretty much anyone purchasing an aftermarket ECU?

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More area under the curve? Better control of larger injectors? anti-lag? data-logging?

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Originally Posted by ginganggooly

At the end of the day it's about making the motor use the available fuel more efficiently, thus making more power, while delivering improvements in economy and throttle response.

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So really anything that can do this is a good ECU, and anything additional is a gimmick?

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I don't know of anyone that purchased an ECU based on tuning time, but if they were to use that as a yardstick, I’m fairly certain that a PowerFC tuned via hand controller would be somewhere down the back of the pack.

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Hand controller is not for tuning (although it can be used to tune).

and for Hondata purchasers in WA or NT or Tas?

do you factor in the geographic non-ubiquity of the tuners who are *allowed* to tune Hondata? or is that irrelevant to determining the worth of a ECU system? if you did, this could place Hondata behind the back of the pack for some users...

I'm a little frustrated, because, my original question I asked was, do I need to purchase additional features for a Power FC to run boost.

The question was answered : NO, I do not need to, but if I want datalogging, I need to pay additional for an aftermarket box called FC Datalogit.

Whyfore we have this Hondata VS Power FC, I only asked if I needed to purchase additional, and stated the main ostensible reason behind me buying the Power FC is 1) I'd prefer to save the 400 bucks on buying the boost component and get it tuned 2) I'm going to be using it for my daily driven street car, therefore, full throttle launch, g-force, lag reduction systems, etc, is not necessary.

are you asking us to leave your thread?

no, I said, I am a little frustrated that it became a whole Hondata VS Power FC debate. Although tinkerbell, you have done a good job of highlighting just how reasonably priced Power FC is for my needs.

Just a quick question. Although I have already come to my conclusion and purchased Power Fc due to lack of Hondata support in Melbourne, a all these debate between hondata vs power fc ON THIS THREAD Boost based? N/A based or overall?

i though James was in melb to tune hondata?

Anyway i can tell you its fine using the hand controller to tune your car its just not as efficient, I did my Wolf3d with the hand controller also.

I'm looking at getting the power FC too just cos i can take it around later to alot more different people to tune.

On another point;
So the Power FC has less tunable rmps then hondata?

I would prefer a licensed mechanic, like Adrian or DynoDave, who works on racecars, to tune my vehicle thankyou.

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Originally Posted by Limbo

i though James was in melb to tune hondata?

Anyway i can tell you its fine using the hand controller to tune your car its just not as efficient, I did my Wolf3d with the hand controller also.

I'm looking at getting the power FC too just cos i can take it around later to alot more different people to tune.

On another point;
So the Power FC has less tunable rmps then hondata?

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1 hondata tuner with no customer service skills vs the amount of other avaiable tuners in melbourne doesnt cut it.

Up in syd you have dyno dav and adrian which a rep...where as we have james down here which i shal leave no comment.

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Originally Posted by yourfather

no, I said, I am a little frustrated that it became a whole Hondata VS Power FC debate. Although tinkerbell, you have done a good job of highlighting just how reasonably priced Power FC is for my needs.

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sorry for turning it into a vs thread, but this is a constantly raised topic, i hope your thread assists those in the future with similar queries?

Mashimaro - no it is not simply boost, it is both, "overall" if you like.

limbo - i took the max RPM from the hondatech.com.au site, and have not independently verified it, so it might be wrong...

it is on the list of "to clarify"...