lol, yeh rebuilt the old engine, had 2 get a new block though. u havent seen me around coz i havent had my car for 8 weeks lol.
and thats my mates GF, he owns the silver EH lol
Printable View
lol, yeh rebuilt the old engine, had 2 get a new block though. u havent seen me around coz i havent had my car for 8 weeks lol.
and thats my mates GF, he owns the silver EH lol
probably not the right thread to post this questions but im going to give it a go LOL
would a b18c7 crank fit into b16a block, without any modifications and changes in compression?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by na-118
If the crank is used, a change in rod length or compression height of piston or both must be addressed.
Our B16A 1800cc stroker kit does this exactly, retaining the B18C stroke & rod ratio.
All other B16 1800cc+ stroker kits on the market deliver an inferior rod ratio to the original B18C.
You'll get the knockers telling you it's a waste of time, but the kit is very successful in IPRA
remember that the the B16A block is ~7mm shorter than the B18C and B20B blocksQuote:
Originally Posted by na-118
planning on doing a b20vtec,
currently looking at a forged bottom end, as it will take time
do you guys who have built b20's in the past reccommend something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Wisec...Q5fAccessories
thanks
What's your goal with the engine?
Most people jump to the forged bottom end boat, which is not always the need. You'll find the average setup out there performs on cast style pistons suited for high comp b20s (RSmachines, etc). One of the main benefits of running a cast piston is the tighter piston-to-bore clearance you can run, in otherwords, it lasts longer. Forged motors need bigger clearances and as a result, don't last as long.
I would save some money and use cast pistons + prepped eagle rods and you will be fine.
Chris, you're talking about cheap US crap...
Our forged pistons run 0.0009" to 0.0011" piston to bore clearence... (same as stock)
We also offer a real 2 year warranty on engine builds with our pistons...
How you going with yours?
No need for pissing competitions lol
But the Toda blocks do look good.
I'd prefer to pay a little extra for the peace of mind it's been built right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by na-118
yeah - buying packages is sometimes a cheaper way to get parts, you just need to be sure they all are going to be what you need to meet your aims...
i was looking at the K567M845 ones for my engine, but got CP ones instead...
whats the go with eagle rods/? ppl always claim they rubbish but are they worse than stock?
well i dont see why everything else isnt being attacked? the BYP crew , Dr Honda crew , all build motors out of backyards and garages, so
its not fair singling out chris if your going to address him, should address everybody.
From my experience chris has always gone out of his way to help anyone who has built an engine with him, the countless times me and my cousin have called him about advice or such and he has been there. My engine has been pretty good to me so far, a year and counting, have even taken it to 9300rpm once accidentally.
Anyways this is going quite off topic, this is about B20 discussion not lets talk shit about other people discussion
im fasting also samm
toda i think you should apologize to chr1s... i understand what your saying but there was no need to get abusive.. so what if chr1s does not have any exp or a shop or a t-shirt that states " im a qualifed person " he understands motors and knows what is good and what is bad.
i think thats FAR more better then others who just say this and that but dont have any facts yet chr1s does, he builds motors, he tunes them, customers are happy.
but other then that lets move on one question though toda is there stroker kits for b20s?
As far as I know, TODA don't make any stroker kits for the B20s.
The real boys know how to build motors, and thats the yanks. Eagle, BC, Crower, SCAT, etc and your custom items can be made if you want strokers for a b20.
Lengths should be check as well as B/E & small end bores.Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
They're not always the same.
We usually destroke them...Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyG
By all means use a stroker if you want, but it's pretty much a waste of time.
& your engine life will be shorter.
Lets all play nice guys.
Guys leave the SPAM and personal attacks OUT.
i am running 1995cc with stock B20 crank and 84.5mm bore with eagle rods and CP pistons...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
that's all you need for 150kW+
do b20 vtec push alot of torque if you do sleeves, pistons, rods, headwork etc?
Because i was planning to do a jdm k20 swap but with that money I was also thinking about rebuilding my b18cr to a b20 built bottom and top.
hrmmm. Very interesting read this thread.
If you've got the money to do it right, yes they can produce very high torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc
Flip side of that is the B18CR that you already have, when sleeved makes a better engine.
So if you can afford to sleeve a block, it seems silly to use the B20 block.
No doubt, but what I was saying was you don't see the japs making 300hp b series firebreathers, well maybe they do and I can't find anything (not that I've tried to be honest) but the yanks are always messing with some stroked bigQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
sleeved motor
well, the 'yanks' are all about drag racing, whereas we and the 'japs' are more focused on circuit racing... i think that might assist you in understanding the prevalence of overstroked big sleeved 'firebreathers' in the US of A...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
TB, what are you trying to say mate?
We both know what specification is needed for either motor.
The question was raised about stroker cranks, and in mickeys interest, he wants to go fast, so to go fast, we look at quarter mile numbers, hence the comment of the americans.
Am I still missing something you're trying to imply amigo?
hmmm, i am not *implying* anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
i am clearly and openly stating that overstroked 'firebreathing' yankee engines are only good for drag racing on the 0-400.
on the *implication* flipside - are you stating that you must have more than 89mm crank to make decent power?
Nah not at all, but I do think that there is more power to be found by running a stroker though, but thats just my opinion
tinkerbell if you dont mind, can you post the engines specs you have built and power output+ track, 1/4mile times
i remember you said you had a stock b20 that ran 13.8 was that in a dc2 shell?
nah, with my 1st B20VTEC i ran the 13.7 in a DA6 'shell' - it was stock bottom + ITR cams IM JDM 4-1's VAFC etc... that 'made' 120ish atw...Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
my last B20VTEC specs include the stock bottom + buddyclub spec 3+ cams & ITR IM & JDM 4-1 with PowerFC - that engine in my VTiR did 1:11's at wakie, 1:23's at Oran and 1:55's at EC - no WSID on that one though... that 'made' 120ish atw
my latest B20VTEC has just been dyno'd - so no track times yet, but will be at WSID soon... then to Wakie to dial in the chassis..
what is the most reliable B series stroker kit you have used? the Eagle crank? was it for drags or circuit racing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
Hope to see the beast in action soon TB. We are missing you out there.
As for japs building motors, watch the SS WORKS CRX. Animal of a B series engine!
Lets not get this 1/4mile shit started. A internally stock b18cr runs mid 13's with basic bolt ons. Unless your "b20" is faster just dont post LOL.
Why not fatboyz? i think 1/4 mile times are quite better than dyno figures.
Which internally stock b18cr has ran mid 13? with "basic bolt ons" ive seen plenty high 13s with some good drivers out there some in DC2 shell some in EG shell.
So TB are you going to post the power output? :)
hmmm, nah, i might leave it up to you 'calculate' my power output from my 1/4 ET, MPH and vehicle weight? fair deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
Deal!Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
I'll need weight of your car, friction of your tyres, what sort of raod base used on the 1/4 mile, wind factors, gear ratios, shift speeds (hope you timed yourself otherwise it might be hard to get an accurate calculation), and last but not least your MPH.
(not serious, just taking the piss out of it)
1/4 mile times are silly to try and calculate numbers, you don't know what's been done in terms of weight reduction, aerodynamics, ect.
doh! so how do we work out who has the largest penis then?Quote:
Originally Posted by newpaddy3
ummm... engine displacement?Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
hmmm, perhaps BMEP might be worth a look?
I'd support that, on a side note to back that up the Zonda R has a 6L engine making 750HP and Holden have a 6L engine making 360HP.
And to keep this thread related I'm thinking I might go ls/vtec, seems cheaper than an engine conversion plus I can keep the same engine number too.
the B20VTEC principles all equally apply to LSVTEC, and the two benefits you list are pretty good for those on a budget...
you say no engine 'swaps', but i still would recommend doing it by removing the engine from the car to build it...
Yeah I understand there is a lot of work needed to prep the block.
I don't say no to engine swaps, I just think sometimes it's cheaper to work with what you got. Not all the time though.
If I was to get a slighty higher compression piston would I have to upgrade anything else? Bolts ect?
And what's the danger of going to high a compression? Piston to valve contact? If there is enough clearance would anything else be an issue?
what CR are you planning?
Well I'm not really sure to be honest, I'd like to extract a decent amount of power out of it yet I still want it to be reliable because it's a daily driver.
It's a B18B so it has a compression ratio of 9.2:1 and I understand that changing the vtec head over will affect the compression ratio.
here are a few good places to start playing with ideas:
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/c...c/compcalc.php
http://www.zealautowerks.com/
My Old EG back in the days with a internally OEM B18cR motor with Intake, headers, exhaust and tune ran 13.6@103mph. This was on road tyres.
Power figures between different dyno's are irrelevant. 120kw from dyno A can mean 140kw at dyno B. The real result is on the circuit and 1/4mile. Track Times do the talking, dyno numbers are just to wank over
*DLO01 Edit* removed detail to keep the peace
Just to add - I took my old Eg , same internally stock motor and only a jdm 4-1 header , full interior vti and re001s to a 13.7@103mph too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
Did 116kw atw but that's not relevant.
Point is the b18c r engine is a fantastic package and hard to improve on ( note tune and probable weight reduction do little)
Anyway.... Totally agree 1/4 mile / mph is somewhat of an indication of power and reliability. Factoring gearing and weight too !
anyone else apart from tb and Fatboyz taken a b20 vtec setup down the 1/4 or had some reliable times at the racetrack ?
Cheers man. They are awesome sites.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Benson and bennjamin, did you guys both run the ITR gearbox?
both may contain inconsistencies - that is why i gave you both, use for 'ballpark' purposes only ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by newpaddy3
I ran the std 4.7 FD 99-00 DC2R gearbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by newpaddy3
TB when are you planning on taking yours to the 1/4? really looking forward to your build
Fatboyz, dave has built your customers lots of B20s how many of them taken it to the 1/4 mile?
Hopefully when i come back overseas end of October (if its not sold by then) ill get time to take it, currently have no licence
JSCC has a lane booked next week - so maybe then?
Lets not forget Toda built b18c 2L e240 motor. Not a bad motor. Similar ponies last yr b20vtec we had.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
interested thread.
i ran a 13.6 b20vtec in my eh civic sedan vti model with no weight reduction back in the 03.
also a b20vtec in my dc2r with no weight reduction did a 1.12 around wakiefield park onthe old track back in the 04.
currently runnning a 1.8 lsvtec in my dc2r and with no time and testing after a fresh build raced it at the superlap.
Re-opened. Stern warning, keep the thread ON TOPIC, keep the personal comments and spam out. This is a good thread lets not ruin it!
Okay here is the situation, ive purchased a B20B8 from wreckers, looking at the PHK markings on it, when we took it home looked at the back of the block
it says P3F which is the low compression bottom end indication? but everywere else it says PHK on it, can anyone give us any idea on what pistons this block has?
someone correct me if i'm wrong? but arn't all B20B's the low comp (8.5:1, i think?) block's. and the B20Z's the slightly higher comp (10.5:1,?) blocks?Quote:
Originally Posted by GSi_PSi
nah, the pistons designate the compression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge Tom
a b20b4 will have low comp p3f & b20b8 will have phk which is slightly less low comp...
never seen a B20Z so cant comment...
all b20b blocks i have seen are marked p3f externally...
USDM B20z = AUDM B20b8, both have PHK pistons
this is regarding V-AFC2.. (you may think it suck's) any way, say correcting A/F ratio's, considering ratio's are similar to percentages. could a A/F ratio be corrected through using a mathematical equation?
most likely you'd tell me to dyno tune it!
not in anyway that would represent what would happen in reality, but in theory - for sure they could!Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge Tom
You can use maths to solve the amount of fuel needed removed/added for the AFR value you are aiming for. But you need to know some parameters first;
If you know the amount of fuel used, the current AFR, and let VE = 100% at that point, you can mathematically compute the amount of air actually present by working backwards from that 100% VE figure, then use that to base of the new fuel needed for the projected AFR. Simple Have/Want ratio.
Maths has an answer for everything in this world. It just depends if you want to look hard enough for it (sometimes its not really worth your time, like this....)
It can, but you need you know your A/F ratio at varing throttle positions through the rev range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge Tom
To graph that, you pretty much need a dyno,
To adjust the VAFC II & see the result, again you'll pretty much need the dyno.
Again & again untill you get it right...
Depending on how quick or slow you are would depend on the cost.
Realisticly, $150 is not a big huge outlay to have it dyno tuned... (Well that's what we charge anyway)
If you're going to do it on your own, you'll need a wide band lambda & a stopwatch as a minimum.
Chances are you'll get booked before you're done & not be able to get it spot-on anyway as the time differnces in accel will be miniman at best with the variable of the driver in the mix.
And yeah, aside from the obvious stated above.. it's not really worth your time. Just pay a tuner to do a touch up tune.
Edit: Now that I think about it again, you need a dyno to verify your results using the mathematical model anyway! :)
$150 to fully tune vafc? If so bargain right there.
discovered that my engine was running too rich, 240cc inj's with 55 psi fuel pressure. i changed my plugs and dropped the pressure to 48 psi. idles alot better now. but i heard some people have their fuel pressure @ 45 psi. what would you guys recommend a decent fuel pressure be , for a built-top and bottom end with-buddyclub-3+ cams and a 12.5: comp ratio, b20vtec that runs of a P30 jdm ecu.
45psi base?
i run 45psi on my car..but i wouldnt play around with the pressure until your about to put it back onto the dyno.
it could affect the tune and make it run lean
thats just it there's no tune i'm running it off a factory p30 ecu. though i did drop it to 45psi this morning and pick'd up a A/F wide band gauge from my bud's shop. first i just wanna get the A/F correct @ idle with the fuel pressure. then start street tuning it with the V-AFC2. i know it wont be as correct as a dyno tune but it'll have to do till i get time to take it to a reputable tuner?Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmTYPE R
Take it to Bel Garage for a reputable tune
Correct fuel pressure is 43.5psi with vacuum hose off at idle.
In your case, though it will idle real nice, it will mean you'll need to add fuel with the VAFC up top, which is not effective since you'll likley run out of injector up top anyway.
To start your street tune, ajust the fuel pressure so that the std ecu without effect from the vafc gives you around 12.8:1 AF (0.88 lambda) at 5500~6000rpm.
It'll be a lot easier to tune it for good results from there.
You'll need a walbro high pressure pump too... stock one won't cut it as you'll end up with around 60~65psi fuel pressure.
Set IG timing to 16deg with pins shorted before starting.
what would be the benefit of ITB's? from what i understand, is that the cylinder's wont scavenge the incoming air from each other and you'd get better down low torque. but how do they benefit an engine around the top end? and would having longer flute's,ram's or velocity stack's on them help increase the rev range, iv'e been look'n 'round for some but most sell for 'round $900-$1100 mark. @ the moment i'm running a skunk2 manifold with a 71mm throttle body.
after reading a few post in regards to b20 rod bolts,
for the ones that have experience in building these motors, what would you say
a standard b20 swap with a b16 head
replace with arp rod bolts or leave it standard?
thanks
I ran mine with standard head studs for two years. Ran with no hassels. Till i went high compression at 13.0 and rebuilt the bottom end. With a closed deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by na-118
you can run with b18c2\c7 head stud, don't run the bs b16a headstuds
did you guys even read his question before clicking submit? :wave:
na-118 - here is a thread prepared earlier...
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...20#post2820920
getting around to changing my water pump, would u goes go genuine or aftermarket?
yeah, i have used aftermarket before, but since USD is so cheap, then can get lots of your genuine parts from USA:
http://oemacuraparts.com/partlocator...layCatalogid=0
yeh, just looking for smething local atm, jdm yard has them for 200 bux but looking for smething abit cheaper
but geeeze that is cheap
OK, here you go then: http://www.ausmart.com.au/category304_1.htm
121 + 10.50 = 131.50 delivered
(but i also note the genuine USA one is $105 delivered....)
yeh just checked how cheap it is, i wonder how long it will take to get hereQuote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
i have bought multiple packages from those guys... delivered (with tracking) in usually 7-10 business days, BUT they can expedite it if you need (i.e. 5 days) for extra cost (like 45 postage vs 25)...
however - this time of year there will be all sorts of disclaimers saying that times cannot be guaranteed due to the Christmas period!!!