NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging

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Originally Posted by Irving

It is with the utmost reluctance that I have decided to contribute again to this forum since I posted here several months ago. I hope that people with legitimate complaints will be given the chance to share their knowledge and opinions without the barrage of criticism from the [content moderated] in this forum.

With this in mind, I hope to stick to the facts and only the facts. If anyone wants to dispute these facts, they are welcome to present contradicting facts. Not the same old rhetoric of this is not a Rolls Royce etc.

• Lets start with the fact that since the PCD fix, some cars are fixed whist some others continue to experience the problem.
• Honda Australia and the dealership that I used throughout this process have done everything to ignore this issue. Following several letters to Honda Australia, I finally received a reply (after threatening to go to Fair Trading), explaining that the car is working within specification.
• The car has been back to the dealership three times and three letters of complaint have been written to Honda Australia. The problem remains unresolved. In the USA this car would qualify as a Lemon and under the Lemon law of the subsequent State, it would be mandatory for the manufacturer to rectify the issue.
• Responses that I received from the dealership and from Honda Australia amount to being fogged off. The Customer Relations department of Honda Australia are pathetic. They need to listen to their customer's and act as an intermediary to resolve disputes and problems arising between it's customers and it's dealerships. Instead, Honda Australia continue to rebuff it's customers. You only need to look at the number of people complaining about the way they have been treated. If anyone doubts this, I am happy to post a scanned copy of the letter from Honda Australia on this forum.
• The problem as described by Honda Australia and it's dealerships is "minor". However, if one listens to the mountain of complaints from Euro owners with this problem, then this problem is far from minor. It is a MAJOR problem. Many seem to have similar symptoms whist other report variations in performance etc.

My investigations have reveled that the problem is unlikely to be the engine, hardware or software component as all Euros are fitted the same. The only variable here is the installation of the software component applied during the PCD fix. My concerns about this has been ignored by Honda Australia who claim that "countermeasures" have been put in place to overcome this issue.
Well, My PCD fix and 5000km service took the dealership 2.5 hours.

With this in mind I set out to find a dealership who was willing and able to rectify this problem. This is important as many dealerships simply deny that the problem is significant enough to warrant further investigation. Having found one such dealership, I went to the dealership and spoke with the head mechanic. He kept shaking his head as I told him the saga and then told me that the ping fix takes them ONE WHOLE DAY to perform which includes the fix being applied, idle for 2 hours. let the engine cool down. Then warm up the engine and test the car for the pinging. They have not had one car come back with this problem.

Well my car is booked in next Tuesday. Let's pray that it will finally be fixed.

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Sounds promising Irving.

Irving, I think you're in Brisbane. I've sent you a PM. I honestly don't know what the ping sounds like. Respond to my PM and come and go for a drive in my standard auto 09. I'm interested on your take of my car and if the ping occurs and I just don't know how to identify it. Take me up on my offer and I'll try to help you work out your own car. I am not wanting you to make me feel better about my car as I know I don't ping. But, I want you to see for yourself what it should be like and if so come to my dealer to fix it.

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Originally Posted by CU2 Euro 09

Irving, I think you're in Brisbane. I've sent you a PM. I honestly don't know what the ping sounds like. Respond to my PM and come and go for a drive in my standard auto 09. I'm interested on your take of my car and if the ping occurs and I just don't know how to identify it. Take me up on my offer and I'll try to help you work out your own car. I am not wanting you to make me feel better about my car as I know I don't ping. But, I want you to see for yourself what it should be like and if so come to my dealer to fix it.

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i'll do this fo you as i am in brisbane.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Bilt & Bi99les,

Further to my insistence that some cars have been fixed by Honda Australia by replacing the Engine Management Computer, below is an extract from Honda Australia's reply:

"Honda Australia confirms that when the countermessure for the PCS was first applied to a small number of vehicles we found that the program may not have downloaded correctly. To ensure its effectiveness, and in an attempt to minimise the inconvenience to our customers, a new control unit was programmed and sent to the relevant dealer who replaced the control unit and sensor."

Guys, you may be well advised to forward this information to the mechanic/technician carrying out your next fix.

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Irving, Mine has been replaced and I still have a slight pinging problem. It actually gets a lot louder and more frequent when the weather is warmer, ie over 30 degrees and using the air con. Appaprently it was programmed in Japan and sent over here for installation. Well that's what they are telling me. It was great at firts and no pinging at all however, over time the pinging came back. However, in saying all of this it is no way as bad as it was when I first purchased the car. But at the end of the day it's still not 100%. But hey I guess I'm just another finicky person according to Honda. Hope all goes well with your car mate, I really do as it appears that the fix does work on some vehicles. Perhaps Buddah is right on the money with his commentary around some of the mechanics. Perhaps some of these so called Honda mechanics have just got no idea.

In any case, let us know how you go. In the interim, I'll keep going at Honda regarding this issue until they fix it or they break me. One or the other. ha ha. Either way will sell this car at the end of this year. Have had enough!

No point dealing with Honda Australia as they don't care so my advice to anyone with this problem is just try and work with the dealer if you can. Honda Australia are a disgrace. So much for their warranty.

I'd hate to think what would happen if there were bigger isues with these vehicles. These clowns just don't get it and a Honda warranty is a useless piece of paper.

Not sure about anyone else but I can guarantee all here that this will be my last Honda. I don't want to deal with these guys ever again. It's not the issue but more the treatment one has to endure from Honda over this problem. Not sure about anyone else but I have been treated like an absolute moron from day 1 over this issue. In any case, my advice to anyone looking to buy this car is to stay clear until Honda can guarantee this issue is 100% resolved. Like that's going to ever happen. Pathetic!!!!!

They no nothing about customer service and dealing with their clients.

Just plain down right rude! I hope they are reading this. Especially my mate Ken Shepherd in VIC. This clown should be sacked!!!!!

I wonder how many customers they have and will lose as a result of this whole mess. Do they really care ? Probably not.

Berst of luck to all.

Just curiously, does this pinging issues still in 2010 built Euro models as well. ANyone got the latest 2010 built experience this problem. What i asked Honda, they said the issue was found in few 08 built cars and totally fixed now.

Thanks, the reason iam asking is i am going to purchase the 2010 built euro soon..but if anyone with the 2010 built model still with pinging issue then i ahve to think again.

[QUOTE=buddah51au;2678029]I also find it very strange Tony, the only conclusion I can come up with is that the update is not applied in the correct sequence.
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Guys im very sad that some of you still :( have the irritating noise to contend with.

Also HA has not been fair dinkum and given a proper hearing ear to you.

I fully admit that i had the fecken noise and it just drov me nuts, as im a car enthusiast and these type of noises are not normal standard operational sounds from the engine bay.
Anyhow on 11 Sep 09 my invoice from Capital Honda apart from the oil change
and filter indicates the following:

CARRY OUT POST CUMBUSTION NOISE COUNTERMEASURES,SB033T09

Part
H/37820 RL6 Q01 CTRL. MODULE. ENGINE 1
H/17115 R40 A01 PKG A, INT MNFLD 4
H/30530 R40 A01 SENSOR COMP, KNO K 1

The comment that Buddah made is valid,:thumbsup: if the update is not
handled and applied in the right sequence it will or may nor work properly.

Also on 3 Jul 09 my first post combustion fix was applied
Part H/17115 r40 a01 pkg a, int mnfld
THis did not work as i was still experiencing the shyte noise:thumbdwn:
So i went back to dealership and spoke to the Manager and expressed my dissapointment and then in September they applied the second update
the service manager told me fuel with 98 ron for three times whick i did
and after that miracolously i was not hearing the rattle..

Once again i sympathise with you guys who paid big bucks and got the runaround as this is not the way to treat customers and it leaves you :confused: and wondering wtf is going on...

I hope that some of this iformation may be useful to you and sincerely hope
that you will have the update installed by competent and ethical techos.

I can vouch for the Capital Honda guys they didnt jerk me around
and if push comes to shove let them apply the fix.
If any of you want to PM me no problem, also i have previously spoken
to Buddah over the phone and he's genuine like myself.
Just keep in mind not every person will do the right thing by you.
Sorry dont wish to sound preachy, but all i can say is establish an open dialogue with your Dealer Manager and keep at them until you get satisfaction.

If you get to the end of the line and and nothing good comes out
of all your efforts, then sell it, your health and nerves are not worth the damage.

My euro has now 15,000 km's and im driving it to melbourne end of march
so hope to post some economy figures on the way back all up will have 5 persons in car and im interested how the CU2 handles it...

Best of Luck and stay strong and feel the force :D

There is a very good reason I refuse to take my car anywhere for servicing. I am afraid I know & trust only 1 person to do the job correctly & it is not some of the so called mechanics that work in dealerships or other workshops. Unfortunately, a lot of you guys are not in that position & have no choice.

Below is the list of parts as stated in the invoice dated 16/9/09

CARRIED OUT ENGINE COMBUSTION REPAIR

H*30530-RL5-A01 SENSOR COMP, KNOCK 1
H*17115-R40-A01 PKG A, INT MNFLD 4

My car is a 6MT

Irving... I'm in brissy also.. I have had the fix also (6mt) and am now experiencing a hesitation at low revs.
Would be keen for a meet up to discuss issues and with any other brissy euro owners.
I believe the fix hampered performance in my car.

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Originally Posted by albii

Irving... I'm in brissy also.. I have had the fix also (6mt) and am now experiencing a hesitation at low revs.
Would be keen for a meet up to discuss issues and with any other brissy euro owners.
I believe the fix hampered performance in my car.

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Albii, I live in Sydney. I agree that there are many things that can be discussed which I personally would hesitate stating in public. There are many 'quirks' to this problem, enough perhaps to let HA off the hook at this point in time. Perhaps Honda's CEO should sit before Congress like Mr TOYODA.

A CRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

Looking back at this PCD problem, I have a record that I first reported this issue to the Honda dealership on 2 March 2009 during the 1 Month first service. The dealership (presumably after checking with Honda Australia) informed me that I was the first person to notice this problem and it was not an issue. I continued to complain to the dealership and in August 2009 the dealership contacted me and told me that a fix had been released (Ping Fix 1) but it didn't work very well and a second fix was on it's way.
Problem description: Mild pinging at Hwy speeds @2200rpm. Average fuel consumption during this period was 6.5Ltr/100km Hwy and 7.5 Ltr/100kms City.

The dealership then contacted me a couple of weeks later and told me that a second fix (Ping Fix 2) now worked and I was subsequently booked in for my 6 month service which would be carried out together with Ping Fix 2 which included the replacement of the Knock Sensor and SW download. This work took them all of 2hour and 30 minutes to complete. For this they charged me $294.30
Driving the car out of the dealership at the first hill, the car pinged it's head off and it took over two tanks of 98RON fuel to settle it down. You may recall that I was attempting to train the EMC as it was said that it required "learning". The problem still continues in a milder form.
Problem description: Mild pinging under load @3400rpm. Average fuel consumption during this period was 8.2 Ltr/100km Hwy and 9.5 Ltr/100kms City.

I called up the dealership and complained within the first 2 days of having Ping Fix 2 applied and was told to come back after 3 tanks of 98RON petrol.

The car was booked in on 13 January 2010 and I left specific instructions with the dealership that I wanted the EMC reprogrammed. I returned 4.5 hours later to find out that the problem was reproduced and a snapshot taken which was sent to Honda Australia. I was also told that Honda Australia had told them that this was not a problem and the dealership advised me that this was "a characteristic of the car". The EMC was NOT reprogrammed as instructed.
Reason: HDS kept looping back to start and would not permit reprogramming.

Subsequent letters to Honda Australia have resulted in them stating that this "vehicle is operating to specification".

Now if you look at the above chronology of events it is obvious that Honda Australia have first denied that there is a problem, subsequently issuing two fixes, then denying that the problem ever existed. HELLO, WAKE UP!!!! We don't all live in La La Land....

Look, this problem is NOT specific to Australia. It is reported in USA where the Euro is sold under the Acura TSX badge, South Africa, Singapore and UK (to my knowledge).

Reading though the posts on this forum, it is noted that not all cars were effected and subsequently, most cars were rectified after Ping Fix 2. However, there are still some cars that and not fixed and Honda must fix these cars. They can't be allowed to shrug the responsibility of warranty by denying that the problem does not exist. A problem they have acknowledged by issuing two fixes. They simply can't walk away from this problem after acknowledging that this is an issue.

Toyota are under the scrutiny of the NHTSA in USA with sticking accelerator pedals and alleged electronic malfunctions. Nissan also is recalling certain 2005 to 2009 Armadas and Titans and some 2006 and 2008 Frontier pickups and Xterra and Pathfinder SUVs due to faulty gas gauges. Source MSNBC

It's time Honda got it's act together and fixed this problem.

If your vehicle is still effected by this problem them write a letter of complaint detailing the problem and asking for a resolution. you can post it on the Honda Australia web Site.

http://contact.honda.com.au/

or By Mail
Honda Australia Pty Ltd
Locked Bag 95, Tullamarine VIC 3043

These complaints are catalogued and statistics collected. If you don't complain you won't get anything. It is that simple.

buddah I'd be interested to see exactly what items have been replaced during your fix. Listing all items like vidseuro did would be most helpful.