Turbo B16 Issues

Hi Fellas

Got a fair amount of things that need to be sorted out, so please only post if you know what you are talking about.

The car just isnt making any power, im still using stock clutch and giving the car shiit, the clutch doesnt slip & the wheels dont spin. Thats my definition of not making any power anyway, Weq agrees that something is holding it back, after he drove it last night.

The turbo does hold boost all the way to redline however, its running 11pounds and from about 3200rpm I have full boost. There is no kick in the arse, no wheel spin, nothing that should be expected from a FWD making a decent amount of power. It would seem that its making less power then Weqs old 130kw D16, but he wont admit it, even though he knows it :p

ECU values change depending on the air aswell, during the day the car runs quite well and everything is good. But during the night, it runs lean again, 12.2-12.5 a/f ratio in boost unfortunatly, which is giving me the focking shits..

So here is the setup, feel free to add your inputs, because im really clueless at the moment ;)

Blox manifold w/ external wastegate
RB20DET T3 turbo - 16v-10 for reference
2.5" intercooler piping
600x300 intercooler
450cc injectors
2.5" downpipe to stock cat to 2.25" piping - yes i know needs to be changed
P28 ecu using Uberdata

I really need to get a dyno reading to see what it actually happening, but until that does, this is all the information I have.

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Originally Posted by LVNIT

But during the night, it runs lean again, 12.2-12.5 a/f ratio in boost unfortunatly, which is giving me the focking shits..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by LVNIT

I really need to get a dyno reading to see what it actually happening, but until that does, this is all the information I have.

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how are you measuring you A/F's?

is there air temp correction with Uberdata? how do you mean

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ECU values change depending on the air aswell

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any reason you have not taken it to a dyno?

Only thing i can think of is tune.

Email me the final tune .bin file and i'll take a look for you. If you dont have it, get someone to read the eeprom.
I'm not convinced the tune is correct, and this goes back to the whole tuning without a dyno on the street & freeware bugs argument.

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Originally Posted by ProECU

Only thing i can think of is tune.

Email me the final tune .bin file and i'll take a look for you. If you dont have it, get someone to read the eeprom.
I'm not convinced the tune is correct, and this goes back to the whole tuning without a dyno on the street & freeware bugs argument.

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Combination – Combination and combination of parts, the setup and tuning….



Personally I think its much more to think that just the tune !!



My brain is ticking away asking questions like



Efficiency of your turbo ! Your using a turbo designed for low revs and a larger engine, I’m assuming you took the turbo off a R32 GTS-T ?

Intake temperatures before and after the cooler and at the intake manifold

Efficiency of your intercooler, flow rate.

Amount of back pressure in the manifold

Amount of boost before the Wastegate and after the Wastegate

You might be blowing 11psi into the engine, but if this isn’t efficient you won’t be going anywhere fast boost is’t boost !

Photo’s of your setup would also help

How are you reading a/f has this been calibrated and by who, to what degree

What fuel are you using, which has a direct relationship to how the car is tuned

Why hasn’t the car never been on a dyno

Has it ever been professionally tuned

What is your base timing, what kind of timing figures are you running between 3000rpm and redline at WOT

Screen capture your fuel and ignition tables and post the numbers on here or attach the tune file.



Regards James

These ARE ALL items relating to a tune
The fact it hasn't been on a dyno is concerning.

in relation to the hardware he has used, it is what it is!
He should still be making better power than he estimates.

LVNIT has PM'd me in the past with further issues, from what I can tell, its tune.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLKCRX

How are you reading a/f has this been calibrated and by who, to what degree

What fuel are you using, which has a direct relationship to how the car is tuned
Why hasn’t the car never been on a dyno
Has it ever been professionally tuned
What is your base timing, what kind of timing figures are you running between 3000rpm and redline at WOT
Screen capture your fuel and ignition tables and post the numbers on here or attach the tune file.

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Lets post screen captures of the fuel and ignition, personally i wouldn’t be blaming it on purely the tune combination is everything

Regards James

Fcuk didnt expect a decent response for once :p

Tinkerbell: I am using a Techedge wideband, it hasnt been on a dyno as I have had work, busy time of the year for me.

BLKCRX: New turbo has been ordered, T3/T4 57trim .63 AR, I tend to think that the turbo is half of the problem IMO

Air/fuel is being measured using a wideband, part throttle done by myself, boost part done by local tuner, only been street tuned so far.

Using 98octane fuel

16 degrees base timing, peak ignition timing of 17 degrees, like i said, yet to get on a dyno.

PROECU: I have had estimates of about 120/130 kw atw with the nissan T3 turbo, that comes from someone heavily involved with hondas. More to the point why I believe the turbo isnt doing me anygood

Most of the issues I have had with the freewares, have been sorted out :)

I still dont see the issue with having a car street tuned, its a safe tune without pushing the ignition timing, until i get some dyno time. Different people, different opinions I guess.

James

blah..

the guys is selling the car, the combination is most likely not going to change.
Besides not everyone afford to control the following and to be honest for a low boost road setup, those details are overkill.

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1. Intake temperatures before and after the cooler and at the intake manifold
2. Amount of back pressure in the manifold
3. Amount of boost before the Wastegate and after the Wastegate

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1. Too many variables effect this, turbo exhaust housing, ambient temps, air velocity & temp etc...
2. Again, dependant on too many factors to even care about for a street application, ie, intake manifold chamber & runner sizing, turbo manifold size efficiency, exhaust pipe size etc...
3. again.... too many variables.

I doubt the guy is going to spend several thousands maximising these items. Lets get practical and stop re-hashing engine dynamic THEORIES when even your budget James will not be sufficient to cover all of these items.

Aside from a hardware issue, a dyno run will tell the complete story, I guarantee it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LVNIT

PROECU: I have had estimates of about 120/130 kw atw with the nissan T3 turbo, that comes from someone heavily involved with hondas. More to the point why I believe the turbo isnt doing me anygood

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I use this very same turbo, and make 160kW at 4psi. on a bone stock B16
Explain that one!?

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Originally Posted by ProECU

James

blah..

the guys is selling the car, the combination is most likely not going to change.
Besides not everyone afford to control the following and to be honest for a low boost road setup, those details are overkill.



1. Too many variables effect this, turbo exhaust housing, ambient temps, air velocity & temp etc...
2. Again, dependant on too many factors to even care about for a street application, ie, intake manifold chamber & runner sizing, turbo manifold size efficiency, exhaust pipe size etc...
3. again.... too many variables.

I doubt the guy is going to spend several thousands maximising these items. Lets get practical and stop re-hashing engine dynamic THEORIES when even your budget James will not be sufficient to cover all of these items.

Aside from a hardware issue, a dyno run will tell the complete story, I guarantee it.

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Most likely it seems the car will be staying in my hands, hence I want to fix these things up. I have been offered a Hondata to use for a little while, then the car would be taken up to Sydney for a tune. So whether or not i keep the setup the same and find out the differences with a real tune im not sure.

Im still yet to here much about the turbo used and possibly exhaust sizing, if that has much to do with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProECU

I use this very same turbo, and make 160kW at 4psi. on a bone stock B16
Explain that one!?

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With the same nissan 16v-10 turbo from a RB20det?

if its a .48 exh then yes.
If i was in canberra i'd tune it for free to prove the point.

good to hear ur keeping the car. You'll love it when u get it sorted.