CL9 best polish and wax products? (light swirl marks)

Hey guys,

I am going to clean / polish / wax my car this weekend and am curious as to thoughts on the best products?

I have been reading other forums and I was thinking about using the following products;

1) Meguiars car wash
2) Meguiars SwirlX
3) Meguiars ultimate quik wax (choose because it is fast to apply, or should I stick to a normal wax?)

My euro is white and only has very fine swirl marks which can only be seen on close inspection under certain lights so I would like to remove these but it's not a major issue.

My main concern is that many people have said Honda paint is very "soft" and I am wondering whether SwirlX is too abrasive for the paint?

Note I've choosen meguiars products because they are widely available in NZ.

Thanks in advance :)

Meguiar's SwirlX and ScratchX 2 (SwirlX is a bit milder polish) and the original ScratchX (mildest cutting of the three) are OK, but it's going to take a while and a lot of patience to remove all the swirls by hand. Menzerna polishes are good too.

The method you need to use is just as important as the product. Honda paint is very soft and sticky, and this means unless you're very careful with your method, you'll likely cause more fine scratches with clumped product as fast as you'll polish them away.

Properly clean and decontaminate the paint before you polish it. Don't apply too much pressure through the pad, let the product do the work. Most importantly, don't use too much product, the product needs to break down as you work it to get the best polishing results. And it's a good idea to follow up with a good sealer like Zaino Z2 Pro or at least a good wax. Keep a good supply of microfibre towels handy for wiping away polish residue. Take care not to get polish on the satin black and rubber trims.

But is the swirling really that bad? Since your car is a light colour, and if you can't notice it from more than a few feet away, you can probably just get away with a good wax and call it done. If your car was a dark colour, it would be different.

There's a mob in Melbourne Australia who are very good with restoring sticky Honda clear coats, they also sell foam machine polishing pads (they use the orange pad on poorer condition paints, black on light corrections), heavy/medium/fine cutting compounds, and sealants - http://www.finalinspection.com.au

- HZ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HunterZero

Meguiar's SwirlX and ScratchX 2 (SwirlX is a bit milder polish) and the original ScratchX (mildest cutting of the three) are OK, but it's going to take a while and a lot of patience to remove all the swirls by hand. Menzerna polishes are good too.

The method you need to use is just as important as the product. Honda paint is very soft and sticky, and this means unless you're very careful with your method, you'll likely cause more fine scratches with clumped product as fast as you'll polish them away.

Properly clean and decontaminate the paint before you polish it. Don't apply too much pressure through the pad, let the product do the work. Most importantly, don't use too much product, the product needs to break down as you work it to get the best polishing results. And it's a good idea to follow up with a good sealer like Zaino Z2 Pro or at least a good wax. Keep a good supply of microfibre towels handy for wiping away polish residue. Take care not to get polish on the satin black and rubber trims.

But is the swirling really that bad? Since your car is a light colour, and if you can't notice it from more than a few feet away, you can probably just get away with a good wax and call it done. If your car was a dark colour, it would be different.

There's a mob in Melbourne Australia who are very good with restoring sticky Honda clear coats, they also sell foam machine polishing pads (they use the orange pad on poorer condition paints, black on light corrections), heavy/medium/fine cutting compounds, and sealants - http://www.finalinspection.com.au

- HZ

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The swirling isn't really that noticeable at all. You do really have to look out for it.

I thought that wax doesn't stick as well to just the paint (i.e. with no polish?)

Is it possible to just clean the car then put a wax on? or do you need to use a paint cleaner first.

The paint is still in good condition so I may skip the polishing stage if it is not required. Main reason for considering polish is because I want that deep gloss look once done.

Thanks for the link, Don't think they ship to NZ though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

I thought that wax doesn't stick as well to just the paint (i.e. with no polish?)

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Wax adheres better to clean paint. The wax will add a warm gloss, and give a small amount of protection.

Polish in the technical sense of the term is a mild abrasive that reduces the appearance of scratches by abrading away the edges that catch the light. Meguiars ScratchX/SwirlX products are all pure polishes. While polishing adds gloss to the paint, the polish itself doesn't add to the gloss. You remove the polish afterwards.

A paint cleaner is not abrasive. It chemically removes stains and bonded contaminants.

While polish will abrade away bonded contaminants and stains, it's best to avoid this, and remove as much as you can with wash (and paint cleaner if needed) as preparation before you polish. If the surface is still dirty/gritty, these particles can be released by the polishing process, caught up by the polishing pad and scratch the paint.

You should remove all residue of polishes before you put the sealant/wax on.

There are cleaner waxes, and one-step polish and seal combo products, which are designed to be left on. But it's harder to get both effective scratch removal and a high gloss result with these products. Most of these products rely on fillers to reduce the appearance of scratches, they don't really 'polish' out the scratches at all.

Normal order is: wash -> clay bar -> paint cleaner/wipes -> polish -> seal -> wax/dressing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

Is it possible to just clean the car then put a wax on? or do you need to use a paint cleaner first.

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Yes, you can do this, if the car was relatively clean to begin with. Run your hand over the paint. If it feels silky smooth, it's probably clean enough.

'Cleaning the car' includes washing it with detergent, alcohol wipes for removing old wax/sealant, removing surface contaminants with a clay bar, or using a liquid paint cleaner. All these steps are preparation for polishing. Which ones you use before polishing/sealing/waxing depends on how dirty the car was to start with. If the car is parked outside and hasn't been washed for a few months, likely you will need most of these steps. If you garage the car and wash it regularly, then yes, just washing it carefully and waxing it every few months is likely to be enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

The paint is still in good condition so I may skip the polishing stage if it is not required. Main reason for considering polish is because I want that deep gloss look once done.

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Probably a good idea. Fine scratches and swirls on paint are almost always caused by poor cleaning technique. Polishing away the scratches restores gloss and clarity to the paint. If the top layer of the paint is oxidised, and this layer is polished away, the difference can be dramatic.

If you haven't already... Invest in a good set of microfibre washing mitts (one for paint, one for wheels/arches), two buckets (one for soap, one for water to rinse the mitt after it comes off the car) and a pile of microfibre cloths for drying. Get some Meguiars quik detailer to lubricate the microfibre cloths as you dry the car. This contains a small amount of wax, and it makes the car look really nice. You can also use it for spot touch-ups between washes. I would go for a nice paste wax like Pinnacle or P21S, they are really nice to use.

But if you have a white car, you are going to find it very hard to add much depth of gloss. You need a black car for that ;-)

Another option is to pay for a professional detailer to do a paint correction. If the car is a few years old, a paint correction can rejuvinate the paint and make it look new again. A detailer will use a rotary polisher to achieve high gloss much more quickly (but a bad detailer can leave defects and holograms, or worse still, strikethrough). But there is a certain satisfaction in learning to do it yourself.

- HZ

Quote:

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Wax adheres better to clean paint. The wax will add a warm gloss, and give a small amount of protection.

Polish in the technical sense of the term is a mild abrasive that reduces the appearance of scratches by abrading away the edges that catch the light. Meguiars ScratchX/SwirlX products are all pure polishes. While polishing adds gloss to the paint, the polish itself doesn't add to the gloss. You remove the polish afterwards.

A paint cleaner is not abrasive. It chemically removes stains and bonded contaminants.

While polish will abrade away bonded contaminants and stains, it's best to avoid this, and remove as much as you can with wash (and paint cleaner if needed) as preparation before you polish. If the surface is still dirty/gritty, these particles can be released by the polishing process, caught up by the polishing pad and scratch the paint.

You should remove all residue of polishes before you put the sealant/wax on.

There are cleaner waxes, and one-step polish and seal combo products, which are designed to be left on. But it's harder to get both effective scratch removal and a high gloss result with these products. Most of these products rely on fillers to reduce the appearance of scratches, they don't really 'polish' out the scratches at all.

Normal order is: wash -> clay bar -> paint cleaner/wipes -> polish -> seal -> wax/dressing

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Ah ok, I was getting paint cleaners and polishers mixed up. Meguiars puts their polishes under paint cleaners as well which got me bit confused

Quote:

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Yes, you can do this, if the car was relatively clean to begin with. Run your hand over the paint. If it feels silky smooth, it's probably clean enough.

'Cleaning the car' includes washing it with detergent, alcohol wipes for removing old wax/sealant, removing surface contaminants with a clay bar, or using a liquid paint cleaner. All these steps are preparation for polishing. Which ones you use before polishing/sealing/waxing depends on how dirty the car was to start with. If the car is parked outside and hasn't been washed for a few months, likely you will need most of these steps. If you garage the car and wash it regularly, then yes, just washing it carefully and waxing it every few months is likely to be enough.

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My car is garaged and not driven that often so hopefully a car wash is enough, but may buy a paint cleaner as well just incase of any tough spots

Quote:

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Probably a good idea. Fine scratches and swirls on paint are almost always caused by poor cleaning technique. Polishing away the scratches restores gloss and clarity to the paint. If the top layer of the paint is oxidised, and this layer is polished away, the difference can be dramatic.

If you haven't already... Invest in a good set of microfibre washing mitts (one for paint, one for wheels/arches), two buckets (one for soap, one for water to rinse the mitt after it comes off the car) and a pile of microfibre cloths for drying. Get some Meguiars quik detailer to lubricate the microfibre cloths as you dry the car. This contains a small amount of wax, and it makes the car look really nice. You can also use it for spot touch-ups between washes. I would go for a nice paste wax like Pinnacle or P21S, they are really nice to use.

But if you have a white car, you are going to find it very hard to add much depth of gloss. You need a black car for that ;-)

Another option is to pay for a professional detailer to do a paint correction. If the car is a few years old, a paint correction can rejuvinate the paint and make it look new again. A detailer will use a rotary polisher to achieve high gloss much more quickly (but a bad detailer can leave defects and holograms, or worse still, strikethrough). But there is a certain satisfaction in learning to do it yourself.

- HZ

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I'm buying all the stuff to detail the car this weekend so will invest in a good microfibre washing mitt :)

Black does have the best gloss but white cars can still have a good "shine" if you know what I mean.

Had thought about a detailler but a lack of trust of some of them and your're right there is a certain satisfaction in learning to do it yourself.

And thanks again for all you time and effort! Has made my decision much easier :)

I reckon any product used by hand is not enough to be enough to remove the swirls. Even a random orbital takes a lot of time and effort and usually a rotary is required for time-effective swirl removal.

My euro was black and showed swirl marks real bad. All I ever used was meguiars paint cleaner on a micro fiber cloth and it came up great. Anything else I tried made it worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

I reckon any product used by hand is not enough to be enough to remove the swirls. Even a random orbital takes a lot of time and effort and usually a rotary is required for time-effective swirl removal.

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Ah ok, I'm not really wanting to spend more than a full day on the process. Since my car is white, swirls are not so noticeable so might skip the polishing stage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by white_ep3_civic

My euro was black and showed swirl marks real bad. All I ever used was meguiars paint cleaner on a micro fiber cloth and it came up great. Anything else I tried made it worse.

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Oh ok, what other products did you try?

Did you use and applicator pad to apply then micro ibre pad to remove? or microfibre the whole way?

So purchased all the goods today.

This is what I got:
1) Meguiars NXT car wash
2) Mothers Clay Bar Kit
3) Meguiars Swirl X
4) Meguiars NXT 2.0 Wax

Notice the swirl marks quite alot when under artificial lighting hence the decision to use swirlX.

Will post results once completed :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

2) Mothers Clay Bar Kit

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Just a note on the clay bar kit - it can cause very minor marring on the paint. While clay bar is magic for removing bonded contaminants and restoring a silky feel to the paint and good to have in a car cleaning kit, it should only be used if the car feels gritty to touch after washing, and as a preparation step for polishing. You need to go very lightly with it, just glide it over the paint, put no pressure on it whatsoever on the bar. And always use lubrication ;) Polishing normally removes any marks from the clay.

- HZ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

So purchased all the goods today.

This is what I got:
1) Meguiars NXT car wash
2) Mothers Clay Bar Kit
3) Meguiars Swirl X
4) Meguiars NXT 2.0 Wax

Notice the swirl marks quite alot when under artificial lighting hence the decision to use swirlX.

Will post results once completed :)

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see how you go but swirl x is a chemical polish, not abrasive. Just take your time and don't try and polish too big of an area at once. NXT fills swirls too, but it contains a light cleaner so you can't really layer it. It does look good though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Type R Positive

see how you go but swirl x is a chemical polish, not abrasive.

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Are you sure about that? I am pretty sure it is a very fine non-diminishing mechanical abrasive. I don't know of any chemical swirl removing polishing products for cars?

- HZ

SwirlX contains abrasives. I have used it by hand and you will have a great big and strong right arm after (if you are right handed).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by white_ep3_civic

My euro was black and showed swirl marks real bad. All I ever used was meguiars paint cleaner on a micro fiber cloth and it came up great. Anything else I tried made it worse.

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Meguiar's paint cleaner (purple bottle) is a chemical paint cleaner with a filler in it. It is not abrasive and won't correct swirls, just hide them.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...-Detail-of-CU2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

SwirlX contains abrasives. I have used it by hand and you will have a great big and strong right arm after (if you are right handed).

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At least it doesn't take as long to work as the original ScratchX! That stuff took forever...

- HZ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HunterZero

Are you sure about that? I am pretty sure it is a very fine non-diminishing mechanical abrasive. I don't know of any chemical swirl removing polishing products for cars?

- HZ

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

SwirlX contains abrasives. I have used it by hand and you will have a great big and strong right arm after (if you are right handed).

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http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-swirl-remover.html

No abrasives. Unless meg's are lying about their own product?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

Ah ok, I'm not really wanting to spend more than a full day on the process. Since my car is white, swirls are not so noticeable so might skip the polishing stage.



Oh ok, what other products did you try?

Did you use and applicator pad to apply then micro ibre pad to remove? or microfibre the whole way?

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I tried a couple of different polishes none then did a better job than the paint cleaner. I just used one micro fiber cloth to rub the polish in then one micro fiber cloth to take it off. I left it on there for a little while before taking it off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Meguiar's paint cleaner (purple bottle) is a chemical paint cleaner with a filler in it. It is not abrasive and won't correct swirls, just hide them.

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this stuff was in a red bottle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Type R Positive

http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-swirl-remover.html

No abrasives. Unless meg's are lying about their own product?

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They are lying about their own product. It's called 'marketing'.

Consumers don't like the word 'abrasive' in car cleaning products. When a car polish is very finely abrasive, they usually say it's 'non-abrasive' and 'clear coat safe'.

I can assure you SwirlX contains very fine non-diminishing abrasive.

- HZ

Thanks HZ, I clayed the car very lightly and it's very smooth now.

SwirlX didn't really do anything (no noticeable distance by hand) so I didn't end up using it. Put a coat of nxt 2.0 and the car looks shinier and kind if filled in the swirls but they are still noticeable. My car feels really smooth now.

We also used swirlX on my friends car (1997 red misubishi mirage Asti) and it looks so much better now. The red really pops and the difference is like night and day. So it worked really well on her car but not on mine.

How do you guys get rid of tough stuff which is kind of stuck to the paint, road grime remover?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

Thanks HZ, I clayed the car very lightly and it's very smooth now.

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Isn't the clay bar magic? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

SwirlX didn't really do anything (no noticeable distance by hand) so I didn't end up using it. Put a coat of nxt 2.0 and the car looks shinier and kind if filled in the swirls but they are still noticeable. My car feels really smooth now.

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As we said before, you'd probaby be at it for quite a while with swirlx to completely remove the fine scratches by hand. It's very hard to see the difference in gloss on a white or silver car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

We also used swirlX on my friends car (1997 red misubishi mirage Asti) and it looks so much better now. The red really pops and the difference is like night and day. So it worked really well on her car but not on mine.

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Red and black are the two of the colours that benefit the most from polish. The Mitsu red paint is notorious for oxidising and going chalky, polishing it would have removed the hazy dead layer of paint on top. I don't think it's clear coated? Did red paint come off on the polishing foam/rag?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

How do you guys get rid of tough stuff which is kind of stuck to the paint, road grime remover?

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You need a tar and bug remover, something like Tarminator, Autoglym Intensive Tar Remover, Meguiar's Gold Class Tar Remover... Any number of brands. Wash the area and re-apply wax to the area when you're done, the tar remover will remove all the wax and sealant.

I am presuming (and hoping) you don't have dealer paint protection?

- HZ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Type R Positive

http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars-swirl-remover.html

No abrasives. Unless meg's are lying about their own product?

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They are lying. The company I work for owns Meguiars.

The MSDS for SwirlX states that it contains kaolin and aluminium oxide, both of which are abrasives. Kaolin is finer and very mild, plus it also acts as a filler to make swirls less noticeable. The aluminium oxide is the diminishing abrasive.

http://www.meguiars.com.au/msds/G17616.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HunterZero

Isn't the clay bar magic? :D

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Haha yes it is, such a big difference.

Quote:

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As we said before, you'd probaby be at it for quite a while with swirlx to completely remove the fine scratches by hand. It's very hard to see the difference in gloss on a white or silver car.

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Yea, I may just get someone to professionally detail the car later on and just maintain it. The swirls are acceptable atm and like you said, not very noticeable on a white car.

Quote:

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Red and black are the two of the colours that benefit the most from polish. The Mitsu red paint is notorious for oxidising and going chalky, polishing it would have removed the hazy dead layer of paint on top. I don't think it's clear coated? Did red paint come off on the polishing foam/rag?

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Yup there was a hazy/chalky layer on the paint which is now gone. It might not be clear coated? Yea some red paint came off on the polishing foam whereas nothing came of on my car.

Quote:

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You need a tar and bug remover, something like Tarminator, Autoglym Intensive Tar Remover, Meguiar's Gold Class Tar Remover... Any number of brands. Wash the area and re-apply wax to the area when you're done, the tar remover will remove all the wax and sealant.

I am presuming (and hoping) you don't have dealer paint protection?

- HZ

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Oh ok, Was on a bit of a budget so didnt buy a tar & bug remover but will next time.

Nope no paint protection

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

Yup there was a hazy/chalky layer on the paint which is now gone. It might not be clear coated? Yea some red paint came off on the polishing foam whereas nothing came of on my car.

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Yes, that's confirmation there is no clear coat on the red Mitsubishi, just solid colour coat. Your Honda has an extra clear coat layer over the pearl white paint to give a nice deep gloss, which explains why the foam appeared to stay clean on your honda, but was tinted red from polishing the Mitsubishi.

If you ever see white paint come off the Honda, that's really bad as it indicates the clear has been polished through - it's called strikethrough. But it would take a long time for that to happen by hand. It's relatively easy to do this with improper use of a machine, especially on panel edges and raised creases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevl

Nope no paint protection

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That's good, it means you don't have to worry about products removing the paint protection. Paint protection schemes usually lock you in to using only their approved cleaning products.

When you get the car detailed, you could ask the detailer to apply a sealant if the car is parked outside regularly. The sealant will help protect the paint from some staining, adds gloss and will last several months, longer if the car is garaged. You can apply your wax over the sealant, the wax should last 2-3 months before it needs reapplying.

And of course, remove bird/bat poo from the paint as soon as you notice it! It can burn hazy marks into the paint.

- HZ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by white_ep3_civic

this stuff was in a red bottle

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Yeah, dark red/magenta/purple. This one, right?

http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/imagesEdp/p84691b.jpg