PREVIEW of the next generation Honda Euro Drivetrain

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29-07-2012, 08:53 PM
Fredoops

PREVIEW of the next generation Honda Euro Drivetrain

Wonder why this didnt even made the news page.

http://paultan.org/2012/05/01/honda-...-fun-to-match/

Back in May a press release came thru with a list of "new" Honda engines that would be used in the near future (as in next gen), of them, theres this:

http://s3.paultan.org/image/2.4L-DI-630x391.jpg

2.4 Liter used in the TSX/JDM/EUDM Accord, in short:
- Same K-series block (as far as pics and specs can tell)
- AVTEC (advanced Vtec) replaced i-vtec
- Direct Injection
- Stop Start
coupled with.... wait for it...
- CVT: Continuously Variable Transmission (at least they are getting rid of that useless 5speed auto)

Above measures netted in:
- 5% better economy
- 5% more power
- 10% more torque

but.... the test drive revealed:

Quote:

the new engine has sharp response on take off, opposed to today’s “comes alive at high rpms” character. Can’t quite remember the top end feel though, no thanks to the CVT

THERES MORE
a CU2 was hooked up with the new 1.6 litre turbo diesel engine for the evaluation test drive
- 120hp
- 300nm
- less than 100g/km CO2

The diesel evaluation car got good feedback

Quote:

This engine will make roughly 120 hp and 300 Nm of torque, but boy, it feels much better than that. Also demo-ed in an Accord Euro, but with a six-speed manual gearbox, you hear no diesel clatter in the car, and there’s no turbo lag. What’s nice is the way it revs so cleanly without any lack of breath or added vibration at high rpms.

PS: Chasing the Germans

Quote:

There was also a seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox in the evaluation car. It wasn’t conspicuous, which is a good thing to report for a DSG type ‘box.
29-07-2012, 09:38 PM
ChaosMaster

AVTEC huh, from memory, i-Vtec's engagement was a lot smoother than VTEC, guessing AVTEC would be even smoother still to the point where that you'ld prob not notice it. If that's true then no real point of Vtec anymore. Start Stop sounds like it'ld be annoying, although I'm surprised it took them that long to get to direct injection, and even then, gains are minimal. Hate CVTs as well, unless the car is so well sound deaden that you can't hear the road and engine noise.
29-07-2012, 11:09 PM
natnat

it's about time for Honda to indulge dual clutch automated manual tech ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission
30-07-2012, 12:21 AM
I CU2

dsg, wtf will this cost me 30k if it breaks?!?!?
30-07-2012, 12:28 AM
Fredoops

Quote:

Originally Posted by I CU2

dsg, wtf will this cost me 30k if it breaks?!?!?

Accord euros are getting CVT. I think the dsg would be reserved for likes of Legend.... Lol
30-07-2012, 12:47 AM
Jasemas

Looks pretty exciting
Cept CVT... Kinda uncertain about that - see how it goes
30-07-2012, 12:47 AM
curtis265

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosMaster

AVTEC huh, from memory, i-Vtec's engagement was a lot smoother than VTEC, guessing AVTEC would be even smoother still to the point where that you'ld prob not notice it. If that's true then no real point of Vtec anymore. Start Stop sounds like it'ld be annoying, although I'm surprised it took them that long to get to direct injection, and even then, gains are minimal. Hate CVTs as well, unless the car is so well sound deaden that you can't hear the road and engine noise.

no real point? Ideally vtec would have been perfectly smooth but that wasn't possible given the technology at the time of it's invention

start stop isn't annoying, it was pretty smooth in the CRZ i drove
30-07-2012, 12:51 AM
kristrifo

i doubt the new engine would have crazy torque levels and rev range to benefit from a DSG box

stop/starts are fail imo, if youre THAT concious about fuel economy, buy a charade...would be sooo annoying in peak hour traffic jams i reckon

the performance figures arent that significant either concidering the car is 200kgs heavier than a cl9...if they want better fuel economy why not just lighten the car?
30-07-2012, 01:00 AM
Fredoops

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtis265

no real point? Ideally vtec would have been perfectly smooth but that wasn't possible given the technology at the time of it's invention

start stop isn't annoying, it was pretty smooth in the CRZ i drove

Hybrid Start stop is different from a normal vehicle tho, because of the battery/electric motors, so the engine isnt constantly turning on and off like stop start in a normal car.

Drove an X3 once with stop start, it's kinda creepy and odd. Lets just hope Honda upgrades their starter motor like BMW does to theirs.. else there will be a whole lot of warranty claims.
30-07-2012, 08:32 AM
antony

Yes,I remember reading all of this on Hondas website a while ago,could be pretty exciting ???
30-07-2012, 08:46 AM
aaronng

Moved to the news section.
30-07-2012, 12:27 PM
curtis265

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristrifo

i doubt the new engine would have crazy torque levels and rev range to benefit from a DSG box

stop/starts are fail imo, if youre THAT concious about fuel economy, buy a charade...would be sooo annoying in peak hour traffic jams i reckon

the performance figures arent that significant either concidering the car is 200kgs heavier than a cl9...if they want better fuel economy why not just lighten the car?

I agree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredoops

Hybrid Start stop is different from a normal vehicle tho, because of the battery/electric motors, so the engine isnt constantly turning on and off like stop start in a normal car.

Drove an X3 once with stop start, it's kinda creepy and odd. Lets just hope Honda upgrades their starter motor like BMW does to theirs.. else there will be a whole lot of warranty claims.

it's not too different. The crz can't do an electric only take off, so it's always on if the car's in gear. If you put it in 1st gear the motor starts up (very smooothly too)
30-07-2012, 02:42 PM
redseven

Stop-start sucks, especially when you're taking off from an intersection and the engine stalls right when you're in the middle of the road :)

C'mon Honda... tiny-ass incremental improvements don't cut it anymore. CVTs might be good for fuel economy but they're rubbish in the fun-to-drive department. A six-speed Aisin or ZF auto would've been better. Slapping on direct injection and intake-only VTEC still doesn't make the K24 competitive in torque, power and emissions against turbo fours by Renault, VAG and Fiat. Hell, Fiat turbo Multiair engines have multiple positions for intake timing, duration, profile and lift, way more than VTEC's dual cam profiles!

We need a Honda turbo! :) 1.8 liters with full VTEC and a turbo for 200 hp, 300Nm torque, awesome...
06-09-2012, 08:58 PM
BigBen

Stop start will HOPEFULLY have an override button to disable this option. Same as the Subaru Impreza /XV. Not a big fan of CVT tranny though!! A 8 speed auto box will do nicely.
22-03-2013, 09:20 AM
freakygeek

CVT, screw that. Nissan's CVT models (Xtrail, new Pulsar, etc) are boring as batshit to drive and it's all down to the awful CVT driving experience. It might save fuel but it does it at the expense of ALL driving pleasure.

Stop start can die in a fire too. It works in BMW's quite well and smoothly but I can't help but get really annoyed that the engine shuts off and restarts in stop start traffic all the time.
31-05-2013, 12:17 PM
Holy Frog

Quote:

Originally Posted by redseven

We need a Honda turbo! :) 1.8 liters with full VTEC and a turbo for 200 hp, 300Nm torque, awesome...

Hatches
http://i.imgur.com/IifFDLj.jpg
31-05-2013, 01:13 PM
Fredoops

Renault Megane WOOO!!!!