Auto transmission problem

Hi all,

I've just bought my 1st Honda after driving Fords for years, and i love it.
I got an auto 94 Accord Exi, done 270,000km. It's in pretty good physical condition aside from squeaky windows and busted speakers...and filthy carpet.
Just before i bought it, it had all fluids and belts replaced, has no leaks, and it came with a RWC (despite having borderline tyres).

Not ever having driven a 4cyl before, nor a Honda, i am not sure how the drive is supposed to feel 'normally'. But i think there is something going on with the transmission.

1) Until i'm in 3rd gear, it really feels like the car struggles to pick up speed. I suppose it's more noticeable when the car is cold, but in general it still seems to struggle.

2) It will occasionally suddenly rev really hard - nearly up to 4K - usually when going from 1st to 2nd gear. It's not all the time, but it's often enough to be annoying. It seems to do it most often when i'm accelerating out of a turn.

3) It's pretty thirsty. Replacing the tyres (on front only so far) and using 98 percent (as opposed to basic unleaded) seems to help. I mostly do commuting in it, but it seems to use the same amount of fuel even if it's freeway driving. Is this normal?

I've had a look through the forums already, and have tried a few suggestions - i've looked at the shift cable, and it looks pretty clean / new-ish. I've also tried an ATF additive that's supposed to help.
I suspect that it's just been filled with crappy non-honda ATF. Is my best bet to just drain it and fill it with the honda stuff?
Or should i just bite the bullet and take it to a Honda place to have them look it over?

Thanks - all help is appreciated! :)

Make a vid of you driving the car from stop to start
Do you drive in D3 or D4
When the car is cold do you 'floor it' or let it warm up
Does the car 'clunk' or make any weird noises
The low fuel economy is attribute to the car being almost 20 years old
Seals leaking, not holding compression, clogged egr ports, dirty fuel injectors etc.
Can't expect it to be as fuel effecient as nowaday cars

dont bother taking it to Honda they will burn a nice hole in the wallet.

despite it having a RWC i would still think you go over it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Brumm

1) Until i'm in 3rd gear, it really feels like the car struggles to pick up speed. I suppose it's more noticeable when the car is cold, but in general it still seems to struggle.

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Thats beacuse VTI and VTI-S have VTEC engine. The VTEC engine in the Accord is design more for fuel economy than power.

Exi's don't have vtec but in terms of fuel economy they seem alright.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brumm

2) It will occasionally suddenly rev really hard - nearly up to 4K - usually when going from 1st to 2nd gear. It's not all the time, but it's often enough to be annoying. It seems to do it most often when i'm accelerating out of a turn.

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Transmission slip?

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Originally Posted by Brumm

3) It's pretty thirsty. Replacing the tyres (on front only so far) and using 98 percent (as opposed to basic unleaded) seems to help. I mostly do commuting in it, but it seems to use the same amount of fuel even if it's freeway driving. Is this normal?

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Auto's will go thru more fuel than manual it seems.

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Originally Posted by as mention by others

I drive it every day to work and from work back home as well everywhere else doing something like 400km/week. It uses around 10 liters per 100 km (it would have been less if it wasn't auto).

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I had an Exi model like yours Brumm, @ 4000 rpm the butterflys in the throttle body open up and your car screams to life
Get a 3/8" drive, jack/jack stands, Honda ATF DW-1 and do a transmission fluid change

I tried making a vid, but of course it drove fine whenever i was recording. D'Oh!
I drive in D4. I generally try to drive pretty gentle to conserve fuel, but the car seems to perform better when i am a little more aggressive on the accelerator.
The only 'clunk' i ever hear is occasionally when going from reverse into drive or vice versa. It's not bad, although there is a little lag (like 2 seconds) before it engages.
I put some injector cleaner in the tank, but i'm honestly unsure if that actually made any difference.
After some investigating, turns out my fuel consumption is about what it should be... i suppose i'm just used to driving on gas!

Also, Snoop: It doesn't feel like a tranny slip... i've seen my fair share of those! The current revving is weird. It almost feels like it's sticking between gears: It only revs for a second. The needle jumps up and drops straight away, then everything carries on as if nothing happened. During the rev, the accelerator loses all resistance, as if the car was neutral.

I suppose i'll just have to suck it up and change the ATF completely. *sigh*

Cant change atf completely, can only do 1/3 at a time

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Originally Posted by Jasemas

Cant change atf completely, can only do 1/3 at a time

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Why only 1/3 at a time? I've drained a little before in order to add the ATF lubricant. Seems like it would be easy to let it all out. Would i cause damage if i emptied it entirely before refilling?

Because of how the transmission is made
When you empty the ATF only 2.5 litres comes out
As the other 2/3 are held in the wet clutch packs of the transmission

So if you want to do a 'full' change you'll need about 9 litres of ATF DW-1 which will set you back at about $160
So what you do is
Change ATF - drain, fill up
Drive around
Engage ALL GEARS - find a quite place and drive it up all through the gears (60 km/h should get you engaging the torque converter)
Then let the engine declerate to 0km/h congratz you've changed your ATF
Now repeat this process 2 more times and feel the smoothness of your AUTO for only a while longer... then back to crunching

I'm just gonna come out and say it, but with that amount of km on it, and it seemeing to be in less than premium condition when you bought it, id say its just mechanical wear and tear.

No amount of fluid changes will help you.

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Originally Posted by trism

I'm just gonna come out and say it, but with that amount of km on it, and it seemeing to be in less than premium condition when you bought it, id say its just mechanical wear and tear.

No amount of fluid changes will help you.

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I did have this thought, but i've driven way older cars (with more km on the clock) that were ok, so i'm hoping this is something that can be fixed. Worth a shot, anyway!

Dont get me wrong, currently im driving a VS commodore auto v6 with over 300k on the clock, and its still a dream, because its had regular maintenance.

Now imagine that the fluid change it had before you bought it was the first fluid change it had in like 100k kms, and replacing all fluids so they were fresh was a sneaky way to make it look like it was maintained...

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Originally Posted by trism

... imagine that the fluid change it had before you bought it was the first fluid change it had in like 100k kms, and replacing all fluids so they were fresh was a sneaky way to make it look like it was maintained...

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Heh... the 6 year old tyres on the car was a good clue it's been a bit neglected of late!! :eek:

Hope you got it cheap

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Originally Posted by Jasemas

Hope you got it cheap

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Yeah, under 3K so didn't do too bad.

Ahoy, just a quick update...
Not looking good, i'm afraid. Currently tossing up between a 2nd hand tranny ($400 parts only with 3mth warranty), or just biting the bullet and forking out to have mine completely reco'd. Either way it's gonna cost me almost as much as the car (but warranty will cover some of the cost). The dilemma is 'cheap fix, sell car' (which i am morally against anyway) or try to keep this one going... ARRGH! >:(

Whats happening with the tranny now?
Is the car a DD?

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Originally Posted by Jasemas

Whats happening with the tranny now?
Is the car a DD?

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DD? Dead Doornail? haha.
Well, after yet another trip back to the dealership for something unrelated (so far it's been the air intake hose, dodgy battery, leaking PS pump, spark plugs crapping out... awesome, right?), hopefully the next step is to take it to an auto trans place, so they can assess roughly how much life it has left. Dude there seems pretty honest and helpful.

Transmission dude told me that replacing fluids won't solve the problem of a clogged filter (which is the root cause of the slipping and sticking), so save my pennies for a bigger fix. It's still the original transmission, so it's done ok to last this long i suppose. Bad timing for me though!

Once i know roughly how long i have till it dies, i can figure out what i can afford. Sadly, i've put in too much already to just write it off, but don't quite have the $$$ for the reco just yet.

Considering this was a serious design flaw (that i didn't know about), i fail to see why Honda didn't address it earlier. Seems most of the 90's models are affected. I just don't know if it's a 'luck' thing, a symptom of neglect, or just a matter of time. (Hence why i don't want to spend all my money on the gamble of a 2nd hand tranny)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brumm

DD? Dead Doornail? haha.
Well, after yet another trip back to the dealership for something unrelated (so far it's been the air intake hose, dodgy battery, leaking PS pump, spark plugs crapping out... awesome, right?), hopefully the next step is to take it to an auto trans place, so they can assess roughly how much life it has left. Dude there seems pretty honest and helpful.

Transmission dude told me that replacing fluids won't solve the problem of a clogged filter (which is the root cause of the slipping and sticking), so save my pennies for a bigger fix. It's still the original transmission, so it's done ok to last this long i suppose. Bad timing for me though!

Once i know roughly how long i have till it dies, i can figure out what i can afford. Sadly, i've put in too much already to just write it off, but don't quite have the $$$ for the reco just yet.

Considering this was a serious design flaw (that i didn't know about), i fail to see why Honda didn't address it earlier. Seems most of the 90's models are affected. I just don't know if it's a 'luck' thing, a symptom of neglect, or just a matter of time. (Hence why i don't want to spend all my money on the gamble of a 2nd hand tranny)

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DD - Daily Driver
The only design flaw with the 89-99 4 Speed Hondamatic is that the filter is not serviceable unless you pull apart the transmission and rebuild it
The most probable cause is that it has worn out/clogged filter and bad particles getting into the gears
Now.. before you blame Honda on a 'serious design flaw'
Was your car's Transmission services every 30,000kms like it says in the logbook?
If not, then it's the last owners own neglection and maybe yours for not doing the service earlier
The transmission in our car's (of this particular generation) are pretty reliable
When you reverse and put it into D4 without stopping - Bad stuff happens
When you floor it when it is not warmed up - Bad stuff happens
When you put the wrong ATF in - Bad stuff happens

What im saying in regards to Daily Driven - is if it isn't you can put it aside for a while

The 5 speed Automatics release in 99 - onwards are rubbish

Regular servicing/maintenance and no abuse will keep these transmission Kosher
You cannot expect a car of almost 20 years to be perfect in the engine/transmission area
I'd suggest changing fluids and see how you go
Have you looked at the TCU? - transmission control unit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jasemas

DD - Daily Driver
The only design flaw with the 89-99 4 Speed Hondamatic is that the filter is not serviceable unless you pull apart the transmission and rebuild it
The most probable cause is that it has worn out/clogged filter and bad particles getting into the gears
Now.. before you blame Honda on a 'serious design flaw'
Was your car's Transmission services every 30,000kms like it says in the logbook?
If not, then it's the last owners own neglection and maybe yours for not doing the service earlier
The transmission in our car's (of this particular generation) are pretty reliable
When you reverse and put it into D4 without stopping - Bad stuff happens
When you floor it when it is not warmed up - Bad stuff happens
When you put the wrong ATF in - Bad stuff happens

What im saying in regards to Daily Driven - is if it isn't you can put it aside for a while

The 5 speed Automatics release in 99 - onwards are rubbish

Regular servicing/maintenance and no abuse will keep these transmission Kosher
You cannot expect a car of almost 20 years to be perfect in the engine/transmission area
I'd suggest changing fluids and see how you go
Have you looked at the TCU? - transmission control unit

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Ah, Gotcha. DD. Yeah, unfortunately it's my primary mode of transport.
I figure i'm reaping the rewards of a previous owner that took no interest whatsoever in the car, and therefore did as little as possible to keep it going. I've only had the car 2 months, and so am still getting to know it.
I went with Honda because everyone i have spoken to said that they're reliable and well-built cars.
Despite all the problems i've been having (and continue to have) i certainly still love my car when it's having a 'good' day. And i've been lucky in that my car dealership has been kind enough to replaced all the faulty / failing parts with no cost and minimal complaint. (Should have done that 1st time, though!)
I don't expect a high-performance car for what i paid (+ 20 years old) but i do expect it to work... in the sense that a dealership should not sell a faulty car and claim nothing is wrong.
Anyway, i am aiming for the reco tranny (after weighing up the options), because personally i prefer to maintain and repair for surety, rather than replace and hope. I haven't looked at the TCU. Can you give me some more specific info on that?
I am booking in for a service in the next few weeks, so hopefully they can tell me whether it's worth fixing, or if it's a dud.

Update time:

So took the car to a Honda service place, and got them to check out the tranny. They told me the same thing as everyone else... that it needed a replacement transmission. Dammit.
Anyway, i decided to check for error codes, just out of interest. (Why i didn't do that earlier; i don't know.) It came up with an error code for the TCU. So i replaced that with one from the wreckers. Ran the error codes again, and this time got errors for both of the sets of solenoids. So back to the wreckers, and pulled off a set of those. I reco'd those while i kept driving round, and chucked them on. That was a bit of an ordeal; had to take off a bunch of radiator hoses, as well as the air intake hose and the fan that sits over the radiator.
That fixed the flaring problem. Huzzah. Next port of call is why the car seems to decelerate sometimes until finally picking up power. But i think there's something iffy going on with my fuel pump, so the fun continues.

next thing thats gonna go are the clutch plates.

Just buy a new auto transmission from the wreckers and be done with it mate :)
Or go manual

Ditto. 94 VTi. Shit tranny, if I "try" to shift @ 2 - 2.5k but it struggles to accelerate and just holds it there. Got a mind of it's own and shifts @ 3k for it to keep up with traffic. Downshifts way too hard when accelerating out of corners and jerks when it shifts, so gotta ease off on the throttle when it's gonna shift. Managing 9.4l+ conservative driving.

Driven a 98 2.2 Camry accelerates and shifts smoothly and effortlessly @ 2 - 2.5k. So it's why I'm trying to get it to shift @ that.Not worth touching the tranny IMO when the car's only worth 2k. Nice looking car, shit tranny & air con.

^ is yours an autobox or manual?
My autobox was doing fine til the panel beaters didn't put the cooling hoses back on properly and clunks when the torque converter stops locking up
The transmissions on these cars are/were great
If you bought a car that was neglected, what'd you expect?
Just like any other car, with proper routine maintenance these cars would last a lifetime

yea auto, very boring. picked it up last year with 208kkms, small oil leak & rhs cv starting to tick. How much do reco CVs go for nowadays? Aircon/heater sucks ass, not sure if regas would do anything with a car this age or would I need a compressor as well?

When you turn the fan dial to 4 - do jets of air come flying out the vents?
If not your blower might be blown