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hey guys,
had a search but couldnt find a definitive response soo...
the great header decision begins.
Highend Tri-Y
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...re298Small.jpg
Vs.
Hytech replica
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77...e/DSC07368.jpg
thoughts or 1st hand experience is appreciated :thumbsup:
sorry to ask a n00b question but is tri-y a particular design of extractor or is it a model of extractor from a manufacturer?
I have also been interested to see how they match up against each other powerwise. I have hytech style on my B20VTEC and it makes good power however the ground clearance is pretty shit as the bottom two primarys hang lower than the sump. I have already scraped them pretty bad and worried if I lower my car I may end up denting them as well . Also, FYI the highend style is a copy of the SMSP header which are suppose to make similar power to the hytech design.
Something about mixing cylinders 1 and 2 together just doesn't seem right.
Heck, even the Hytech doesn't add up when you count the 1-3-4-2 firing order.
cheers, thanks for that. would the SMSP style have better ground clearance?
looks like rage header wins - gives the best overall mid-range gain while only just making slightly less total power.
also probably half the price of a DTR
1st ones look like SMSP tri-y style headers...
yeah, rage ftw... US$650 not including shipping which i guess is another US$200 or so. that hurts considering the state of the economy... :(
There are cheaper ebay versions which would probably do the same job for 1/2 the price
Rage headers are the same production headers as Buddy club ones.
yeah, was looking into that... the welds on some look pretty darn good...Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sel...S-GSR-TY-2.jpg
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/8/9...74276202_o.jpg
Too bad they didn't throw in a traditional 1-4 2-3 header into the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
True, but I have seen a few other header tests where the hytech performs better than the Toda header which is one of the best traditional 1-4 2-3 pairingQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Speaking of which......
http://g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184246
Mainly on bigger engines will you see a replica out do a toda or the toda copy as in this thread but as per a few engines getting round, still make good usable power on bigger engines, replica's are bang for buck, you cant compare a mass produced item to compete to a custom made to suit your set-up, got to ask yourself, is the rest of the engine good enough to warrent spending the money and the wait involved with a custom.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
How do you know this, is it a true statement or just assuming.Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
They are the exact same piece, just rebranded and sold for a few dollars more... my header is rageQuote:
Originally Posted by pwr2w8
To date, this is an internet myth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaz
Where are these "Bigger Engines" with replica headers that punch out these big numbers?
Anyone....
Anyone....
LOL...
Now though I prefer our TODA product over the leading American products,
It has to be said, the genuine Hytech headers really are an exellent product and the same can be said for the headers produced by SSR.
These guys know their shit & produce top shelf parts.
Then there are these header clones or coppies...
In my experience, they don't live up to the names they pretend to copy.
They're just not all that at all...
If you're on a turd skinner's budget, sure... There's value there.
If you're after the best... Save up & buy it.
Im not knocking the Toda header at all, it is one of the best off the shelf headers you can get. I would actually prefer one over my "hytech production header" simply for the better ground clearance, regardless of any power gains/losses. But in my opinion $1400 is just a ridiculous amount to spend on a header for a street engine. I paid less than AU$700 for my rage/hytech header, no fitment issues and the quality was awesome. Moreover, I seriously doubt there would be very much difference in performance compared to a Toda header and even if there was I dont think it would be noticeable enough on the butt dyno to justify spending twice as much.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Just my 2c worth
Well said, ill have to agree with ZeForce, is there any proof toda headers make more power than these replica'sQuote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
Toda headers work great on a b16a, well of the best headers for b16a. Anything bigger like 1.8L and 2.0L the hytech tri-y headers out performs it.
I don't think we’re not on the same page here,Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
The thread is about unconventional interference headers.
I merely stated I prefer the TODA product. But I didn’t expand further than that.
The point I was making was that these production or knock-off headers they are not as good as the real deal they pretend to imitate.
This is particularly so when capacity, compression & cams are brought into the mix.
If you really want a really good unconventional interference header…
Buy the SSR or Hytech custom product.
The reason they works well is not just the pipe size & lengths.
It’s the attention to detail in the stepped primaries.
Without functioning stepped primaries, this design just falls down.
(aka cheap knock-offs)
As for whether you’d notice the difference swapping to a TODA header,
Actually, I know you would… & it’s the part throttle power & response you’d notice the most.
But this is digressing & off topic.
As for my stance on the performance of these “real” headers…
This isn’t a half baked opinion that I just made up,
It is an opinion is based on tuning many, many cars with loads of different combinations with every header under the sun over many years.
& flying in the face of internet myth, I can state as fact, of all of the larger B-series engines I’ve seen, the best performing ones have used TODA, SSR or Hytech headers.
To date, I’m yet to see a copy or replica header that impresses.
This is in relation to engines of 1800cc & larger, up to say 2150cc.
Our Super Sprint EG is 1 good example.
In any case, regardless of what I say, the copy headers will still flood the market,
People will still buy & use them.
I feel it really aught to be clarified though, if you spend a little more on the real thing…
It is actually worth it.
As a side note, it’s interesting to notice both SSR & Hytech use conventional (mathematically correct) interference headers for the other engine types they support.;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Of course you're gonna say that, it would hurt sales if you agreed with me....
But if you have any spare Toda headers lying around and are willing to send them to me for free, Im willing to put your claim to the test
Actually you said you doubt that there would be much difference...Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
This would indicate an opinon based on a guess...
From my experience, I could confirm otherwise,
So, you can take that as advise or not...
As for spare headers to send to you for free so you can test them...
LOL... No, when they stop working, they'll stop selling.
lol i dnt think anyone would just have some spare TODA headers lying around and i dnt think they would be willing to give them away for free lol ahahahQuote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
LOL...of course not...maybe a tri Y perhaps..LOL.
i would put money down if you installed the BIG tube REPLICA header onto Leo EG it'll make MORE power then the toda headers.
ill put money down that in a few months , the rep. header will fall apart or crack at the seams etc.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
i think this should be done, and get an independant test done by a different tuner, it will be unfair for toda to tune.Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
Any other tuners interested, this will put this argument to bed
wow i dont think adrian really wants or needs to prove himself.... mmm...
For a start, I don't need to prove myself to you or anyone else for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by pwr2w8
I do this for a living & we build & tune some of the most powerful B-series in the country.
Not all of them use TODA headers, but the majority do…
Why, because they are still good value when compared with the top shelf US headers.
I did say, If you’re on a tight budget, the copies represent reasonable value.
If you want the best however, it has to be said. They are not it.
I didn’t put TODA at the top of the heap. I also mentioned 2 other manufacturers who in my experience make truly 1st class headers.
From my experience, the Tri Y replicas & copies are poorly made with non-functioning anti reversion steps.
Without the correct function of these stepped primaries, this design just doesn’t punch out the power the myths online suggest it does.
From experience, I'm telling you the replica Tri Y headers are more smoke & mirrors than substance. In that, I mean they are not really any better than other headers for a similar price.
Again, take it as advice or don't.
If you're in the market for a Tri Y from the US, I suggested saving your money & getting a real one as the difference is chalk & cheese.
But if you don't want to believe me, hey, don't...
As for letting someone else tune our car… LOL…
We just won a championship with it & it seems that a few of you online have this moronic mind set that by changing to a different header we’re suddenly going to reach nirvana, with untold horsepower erupting from the engine.
Quite frankly, at the level this engine is at, it just isn’t going to happen…
Further, I'm not about to let someone else go & blow our engine just for the sake of appeasing a small group of closed minded internet mechanics.
Some times I wonder why I bother…
since both are sequential, id choose hytech replica.
its stepped header
smoother transition on primaries to secondaries to collector.
i believe copies and original doesnt make a difference.
what matters is material used and design.
stop fighting peeps lol.
It's posts like these, that provide backup and real experience, that really help us.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
If you guys are going to argue for something, then you really need something to back it up. If you honestly think someone is wrong then just go and use the headers you think is best and forget what the other person thinks.
Big ups to TODA_AU, very inciteful and honest post, wouldn't have it any other way :thumbsup:
respect for Toda_Au, he has been on this site and helped me and other members with general honda tuning advice for many many years now
this may sound like a silly question, but is there a difference in sound?
for example the subaru equal length and unnequal length headers produce different sounds, honda vtec engines have a distinct sound to them - how does the difference in header design effect them?
my replica 4-2-1 tri-y sounds heaps different to my old JDM 4-1 ITR headers
almsot like a flat four...
Our ones hasnt broken or cracked anywhere yet. Been used on the race track for over a year now.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin