combining a shock absorber with a king spring

hey guys im looking for new shocks and i've currently got king superlows on my dc2

first off, I KNOW kings are shit, but im on a budget and i've already got these so im living with it

my question is whats a good shock absorber to run with the superlows. i've read that the king spring rates are quite soft so getting a shock thats abit stiffer is desirable.

i've also read that koni yellow's dont work well with kings as the spring rate and stiffness are mismatched. Bilsteins make a good shock will they be more suitable?

so yeah any opinions and/or experiences and/or recommendations with difference products will be much apprectiated

thanks guys

kings recommend gt monroe gas shortened shocks for those springs

I thought koni yellows were a very good shock to go with kings?

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Originally Posted by Gio

I thought koni yellows were a very good shock to go with kings?

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see thats what i thought but i've read on this forum that they arent.

Koni yellows are adjustable right? would that mean i can stiffen them up to compensate for the lower spring rate in the kings?

Are you sure that you want new shocks? The reason I ask.. is I made the mistake of spending money on springs, then shocks, and then i realised down the track that I really wanted coils...

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Originally Posted by 95civic

Are you sure that you want new shocks? The reason I ask.. is I made the mistake of spending money on springs, then shocks, and then i realised down the track that I really wanted coils...

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yes i've thought of this too

coilovers are only good for their adjustability, the integra has "coilovers" as standard its just you cant adjust them like aftermarket items

but this is a street car and im set on finding a decent set up by way of a good shock absorber

if i can get the set up right i wont need the adjustability of aftermarket coils

agree with the monroe route...
i asked around before when i wanted to change my shocks and springs...
monroe shocks + kings.. budgetwise...
didnt get around to doing it though... priorities changed =(

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Originally Posted by rbk_212

yes i've thought of this too

coilovers are only good for their adjustability, the integra has "coilovers" as standard its just you cant adjust them like aftermarket items

but this is a street car and im set on finding a decent set up by way of a good shock absorber

if i can get the set up right i wont need the adjustability of aftermarket coils

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I might drive a toyota, but im near 100% sure that your DC2 didn't come with a "coilover" type shock/spring from factory. It's just a shock and spring combo designed for the road (comfort) and longevity.

Anyway, look into KYB short stroke shocks. They are offer a good compromise between handling and ride quality. I run them with Kmac springs.

> I KNOW kings are shit,

Don't dump on them because they're not a premium brand.

For the money, they do the job.
They might sag a bit, but hey tyres wear out, go blame Bridgestone.
Remember they are a close to OEM spec replacement.

Couple these with some worn out original shocks and it was never going to be an optimal setup.

If you wanted super high rates and didn't do the research that's not King's fault.

I believe Kings do custom rates and can accommodate more demanding requests.

Many aftermarket manufacturers (Koni SSK kit & Whiteline from memory) make their springs with similar rates.
The Koni front's are progressive and rears are a fair bit stiffer from memory, but much more expensive.

Koni yellows feature adjustability but in the ranges appropriate for our cars, on the street, Koni red's are equivalent.
This is from my memory of shock dyno graphs, some time ago.

> I thought koni yellows were a very good shock to go with kings?

Koni yellows work well up to about 5-600 lbs spring rate.

Kings/Whiteline/Koni SSK spring rates are about half that.

> Bilsteins

Dont know much about 'em, though I don't think they fit in the budget category.

If stiffer suspension is what you really what, then jump straight to coilovers like Ground Controls where you can choose the spring rates.

> would that mean i can stiffen them up to compensate for the lower spring rate in the kings?

I don't think shock adjustment is an appropriate way to stiffen up suspension.
First step would be to upgrade to ITR spec sway bars and then choose the spring rate you want.
Then the shocks get tuned to the spring rate & fine tuned to balance the over/under steer of the car.

Dialling in too much stiffness in the shock reduces it's reliability.

Nick.

thanks for that breakdown nd55

and i didnt mean to dump on king springs its just that anytime you seem to mention them they get flamed by certain forumers who shall remain unnamed, so i didnt want to create a shit storm as soon as i posted the thread

so koni reds are good says you? i might have to look into them

swaybars are next on the list my friend dont you worry :)

oh and to AE092, a coilover is merely a shock absorber with a spring wrapped around it, its nothing spectacular. People just refer to aftermarket kits as "coilovers" for simplicity's sake

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Originally Posted by AE092

I might drive a toyota, but im near 100% sure that your DC2 didn't come with a "coilover" type shock/spring from factory. It's just a shock and spring combo designed for the road (comfort) and longevity.

Anyway, look into KYB short stroke shocks. They are offer a good compromise between handling and ride quality. I run them with Kmac springs.

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this guys on the ball, buy them from the states and match them up with spoon sports springs

> the integra has "coilovers" as standard its just you cant adjust them

I think you'll find most people on here use the term 'coilover' to refer to a much narrower definition than yours.

Ground Controls and Teins come to mind.
It's not really worth arguing about. TomAIEEEtoe TomAHHtoe.

> so koni reds are good says you?
Never used them, went second hand yellows myself.
I just remember when I was doing my research they seemed OK for our applications.

Nick.

yeah i remember reading somewhere on kings site them recommending gt sport shortened shocks for there springs.

got king lows on my eg been driving it for around 40,000ks now still allgood..im running oem shocks up front and munroe original back..

just get a decent shock.
The only thing about king springs are they sag over time.
Usually takes them a few yrs.
If you get a decent shock you can change the springs by that time to something more decent.
I'm running KYB AGX adjustibles are they are quite good

How can you find out the spring rate of a set of king springs?

^you can ask king springs i guess

btw i ordered a set of KYB AGX adjustables, thanks for everyones input :)

nice!
pics!

wer did u order from ? usa ?

they are nice man. the hardest is hard and 1 is quite soft. you can ramp up the rear for better turn in but it wont really affect over/understeer too dramatically. spring and swaybars are for that.

think of a shock as something designed to slow the springs movement. with the rear shocks stiffer it takes longer for the wheel to settle to its final position while cornering. so as the front moves fast and the rear slower it creates more weight transfer in the rear and less at the front for a split moment, leading to better front weight distribution, and therefore grip on turn in. but as the rear slowly catches up and reaches its final resting position it is the same as before the shocks were installed as this has to do with actual roll resistance.

it is something cool too. turn it soft for long annoying drives so its nice a comfy. many drives back from places with my missus sore in the ribs from sprited driving a i can turn it soft with easy quick turn of the screw. tip push it down and turn or it doesn't turn.

cheers man

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Originally Posted by dahon

nice!
pics!

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they still have to come but i'll try post some later!

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Originally Posted by hisoka

wer did u order from ? usa ?

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yeah from the US of A, for 120 bucks cheaper than i could get them here!

be more if the damn dollar wasnt so crap..

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Originally Posted by 55EXX

they are nice man. the hardest is hard and 1 is quite soft. you can ramp up the rear for better turn in but it wont really affect over/understeer too dramatically. spring and swaybars are for that.

think of a shock as something designed to slow the springs movement. with the rear shocks stiffer it takes longer for the wheel to settle to its final position while cornering. so as the front moves fast and the rear slower it creates more weight transfer in the rear and less at the front for a split moment, leading to better front weight distribution, and therefore grip on turn in. but as the rear slowly catches up and reaches its final resting position it is the same as before the shocks were installed as this has to do with actual roll resistance.

it is something cool too. turn it soft for long annoying drives so its nice a comfy. many drives back from places with my missus sore in the ribs from sprited driving a i can turn it soft with easy quick turn of the screw. tip push it down and turn or it doesn't turn.

cheers man

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thanks for the input dude i look forward to experiencing it myself. Swaybars will of course be coming soon:D

yer ~before we could bring in a set for about 600 bucks posted lol~

had king springs low on my eg that was installed with koni yellows about 3 years ago and they were great! Rode really well ( provided you have good seats as clapped out oe seats tend to bounce), only started sagging when I started hammering the car in competition events and they stopped sagging after a certain point.

they are quite soft springs, about 3.8kg front and 2.6kg at rear from memory compared to max 4.5kg all round for dc2r oe springs for example.

off the shelf koni sport shocks are adj in rebound only and should not be used to compensate for springs that are too soft. The factory deem the adj as a wear compensating device; it is however a good and cheap tuning tool for cornering transient reponses when used in moderation. Turn it too hard with the king springs the suspension would jack down over a series of bumps for example esp in the rear. Specialised shock shops can modify the koni yellows for bump and rebouned as well as uprated the valves to handle springs stiffer than 10kg but budget around $1200-1500 for the pair of shocks inclusive.

ppl on this forum likes to bag Kings springs for various reasons, sure they are soft-ish, will sag and without bling but they are cheap and widely available and I still managed competitive times with my b16a eg with R888, rear whiteline 20mm sway bar, eg5 oe front bar with only 1.5 deg neg camber at the time and though car looked v rolly polly in pics it felt fine inside the car.

I've since upgraded to Ground Control coilover sleeves setup on my koni yellows on 6kg/4kg. Fair bit stiffer, still way too soft for max track potential but still quite comfy as a daily driver.

On your dc2 have a longer tail section with more centerlever moment over the rear springs you can afford to good as stiff as 8kg at rear and still be quite comfy with the koni yellows.

^thanks for sharing your experience i appreciate it

update: they came today! i ordered on boxing day and they arrived this morning, that has to be the quickest freight I've ever seen! Planning to put them on the day after New years Day.