Ignition Problem: Help with diagnosis please!

Hey guys,

Hoping you could help with a problem im havin.

Heres the symptoms

Intermittent lumpy idle
Intermittent hesitation on acceleration (generally high load, low RPM)


Things done so far:

Replaced Leads with Top Gun 8.8mm
New plugs


When idle is playing up i can push/pull the leads and press on the dizzy cap and the problem goes away. it will come back after a while once i'm driving though.

I've ruled out things like fuel pump/filter, main relay, air filter, injectors etc mainly because everytime i fiddle with the dizzy the problem goes away.

Heres some pics of the cap/rotor button:

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6985.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6986.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6988.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6990.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6991.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6992.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6993.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6994.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6995.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6966.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R/IMG_6967.jpg

If anyone can notice anything thats wrong just let me know, or if anyone has any other ideas as to what the problem may be/what i should replace etc. just post it up.

Thanks for the help guys.

Jase


EDIT: Just noticed in PIC 6 there looks to be a crack to the bottom left of the silver thingo (have no idea what its called lol), possibly a casting mark though. And also in pic 1 is there meant to be a cap over the spring or not?

replace the cap and rotor. ITs a cheap fix that will often fix minor idel and timing problems. I replaced a rotor recently , that looked 100% ok on te outside. No cracks etc. but it did not transfer power to the leads and thus would not start the car.

There isnt a cap over the spring , thats how it sits over the ignition coil.

thanks ben.

Replacing the cap/rotor was my next logical guess. :thumbsup:

ive got a spare igniter unit (ICM) and ignitiion coil to suit your dizzy if you need it.

anyway change the cap and rotor with TEK / oem parts and that should fix up your issue.

A good idea while your at it is possibly to change to an aftermarket external coil cap and coil. just a thought do avoid future issues with the weak honda coil, we all know the oem coil isnt the greatest lol

Goodluck

Ben, where to you source you ignitors from?

Nick.

be carefull when you tighten the cap back on i've heard the bolts can snap easy :cool:

You can get a champion replacement coil from repco (i dont know if u have repco over east) or any parts store, the champion ones are pretty good. About $90

B18cEG: i think i'll stick with the OEM gear for now. If the coil does decide to go at a later date i will think about upgrading to a external unit. Probably an MSD as its a proven unit.

Darryl: Yeah bolts do snap easy don't they... :p

Ben: Any other places apart from honda to get good quality replacement parts? I like the idea of shopping around for prices.

Pretty sure any parts store can offer something like champion or bosch replacement coils and caps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by B18cEG

A good idea while your at it is possibly to change to an aftermarket external coil cap and coil. just a thought do avoid future issues with the weak honda coil, we all know the oem coil isnt the greatest lol

Goodluck

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i disagree.

the OEM "TEK" honda coil is a once in 10 year fix. 3 of my EGs coils failed at almost the exact 10 year/180-200,000k mark. Thru hard driving or daily.
My point is honda make fine parts for their cars. Aftermarket will often fail long before honda 9this goes for ANYTHING)

Replace the ICM and coil , with honda parts if you can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

i disagree.

the OEM "TEK" honda coil is a once in 10 year fix. 3 of my EGs coils failed at almost the exact 10 year/180-200,000k mark. Thru hard driving or daily.
My point is honda make fine parts for their cars. Aftermarket will often fail long before honda 9this goes for ANYTHING)

Replace the ICM and coil , with honda parts if you can.

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Sorry bud, i think u misunderstood what i meant, i didnt say they fail easily, i was saying they are weak not poor quality, weak compared to external coils in terms of spark energy/current and voltage, i know the oem coils are great and i stick by honda 100% but i was talking about an upgrade not just a replacement.

Thanks

yeah ill agree -

just to add , most race cars or hi power setups on hondas out there use OEM parts on leads , ignition and dizzy parts etc. Honda is fine :)

i'll just chime in a bit as i've done some testing before....

firstly jase, your symptoms are that of the ICM, almost every car forum post similar descriptions to yours at this time of the year (summer) it's a combination of age as well as the very very original icm unit from the factory was not tolerant to heat... this was later corrected for obd2 models and is compatible with past models... the backing plates are just different. all the oems now as well as the oem replacements from the states are tolerant upto 300*F

as per what benny and b18cEG (paul is it?) are talking about.... i did manage to get the oem coil to run at 1.3mm plug gap safely with random misfires at 1.5mm gap.... the msd blaster ss coil started getting random misfires at 1.3mm but was very rare. testing was done the same day within an hour under the same conditions and exact same road. the winner was the lx91 crane cams model that didn't start misfiring till after 1.7mm

you can however get a replacement internal coil with "+20% more power"... i think the manufacturer was altec.... i've yet to test it

did he mention when he plays around with a certain lead at the dizzy cap it goes away

Its Jason lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ek4-guy

did he mention when he plays around with a certain lead at the dizzy cap it goes away

---

...then replace the dizzy cap.

yeah i'll replace the dizzy cap and rotor button first i think.

And then if its not that i may consider buying a new distributor all together. I'm bound to find the problem if i do that. hahah.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ek4-guy

did he mention when he plays around with a certain lead at the dizzy cap it goes away

---

jase, could it be the lead then? i've had the connector in the lead come off before due to sheer age and it was an ngk item....

check the things that can be checked for free such as that to narrow down... no point buying stuff randomly:thumbsup:


***EDIT***
lol re-read again... leads and plugs changed.

borrow the stuff you wanna buy if you can....

if you get desperate lemme know and i can post you up a cap and working icm to test if your willing to post it back... if one of them solves your problem then i'll just sell it to you for a good rate


***EDIT AGAIN***
with what ek4-guy mentioned... is that lead near the broken screw? dizy cap not sitting properly and the contacts are further from the rotor causing misfire?

nah the screw broke way after the problem started. lol I haven't driven it with the broken screw yet.

I had problems when i got home from a meet and when i pushed on the leads the problem was still there. bt when i pushed on the cap it went away.

I'm starting to think that the solution isn't with the cap though. cause i haven't been able to narrow it down to one single action that i take (like pushing a certain lead, pressin on the cap etc) which fixes the problem. I think it may be coincidence that it fixes itself when i'm playing with it.

I'll look at all the options DSP before i get you to post anything. If its not too expensive i'll look at replacing the major components. The car is 14 years old and up until last friday it was completely original/stock (even the leads were 14 years old.)

It might just be time to find a good OE spec aftermarket distributor to replace it with. It will fix the part that is failing and will be preventitive maintenance for the rest of the system.

Hey Jason

BMI sell generic distributors for hondas but there not the best, but they do the job. Tried it on my brothers car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JasonGilholme

nah the screw broke way after the problem started. lol I haven't driven it with the broken screw yet.

I had problems when i got home from a meet and when i pushed on the leads the problem was still there. bt when i pushed on the cap it went away.

I'm starting to think that the solution isn't with the cap though. cause i haven't been able to narrow it down to one single action that i take (like pushing a certain lead, pressin on the cap etc) which fixes the problem. I think it may be coincidence that it fixes itself when i'm playing with it.

I'll look at all the options DSP before i get you to post anything. If its not too expensive i'll look at replacing the major components. The car is 14 years old and up until last friday it was completely original/stock (even the leads were 14 years old.)

It might just be time to find a good OE spec aftermarket distributor to replace it with. It will fix the part that is failing and will be preventitive maintenance for the rest of the system.

---

cool thanks trung. Will be lookin at all options before i spend any money. I've found a few good options so far. Will post up what i do and how it turns out etc.

Any more suggestions just post them up guys. :thumbsup:

Your not going to like honda's price for a dizzy I have rang about one before


There is a place in the states called the Distributor King he sells dizzys a lot cheaper and a few people have told me they are decent and a lot of people from the states use them

yeah i got some prices from honda this mornin. They're as follows:

Rotor button: 47.60
Dizzy Cap: 58.80
ICM: 395.85
Whole Dizzy: 1600+

I've seen plenty of OE spec replacements for about 200 - 250 US. but haven't found anything with the right housing yet. They're mainly OBD0/1 and i need OBD2.

Even if i was going to by the cap/rotor/ICM all together its still better off if i get a new OE spec dizzy. That way i get the bearings, sensors etc as well as the ICM/Cap/Rotor etc.

Will just need to buy a timing light for the install thats all.

I haz timing light you can use

jason dont freak out.

big chance its the cap and rotor. thats it.
at most , the ICM or coil.

i bought OEM ICM and coil from a place here in syd called "meekong spares" - icm was $70 and the coil was about 50 i think. same as OEM. I didnt even need these in te end but its best to replace anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ek4-guy

I haz timing light you can use

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cool man. will let you know if i need it. Thanks mate :thumbsup:

Darryl: I'm gonna need it man. I took my dizzy off today to get all the info i need so i can buy a new one. :thumbsup:

To let everyone know, i'm going to be getting the following dizzy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-9...mZ120357979887

Brand new OE spec distributor from Distributor King. Comes with a more heat resistance ICM and includes all the parts for the dizzy. brand new, not reman.

I figured once i bought a new cap/rotor button/ICM i would have been around the same price as this new dizzy anyway. I plan on sticking with the b series family as well so this distributor should bolt on to the new engine and live a nice full life.

I know it sounds rash to just go out and buy a whole new distributor when i could just replace the broken parts, however, the cost difference wouldn't have been that much and i see it as long term preventative maintenance.

Thanks for all the help guys. Will write a DIY Install/Review of the product when i get it.

:thumbsup: to my ozhonda peeps for all the help

i respect your mentality - do it right the first time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

i respect your mentality - do it right the first time.

---

thanks mate. :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JasonGilholme

Darryl: I'm gonna need it man. I took my dizzy off today to get all the info i need so i can buy a new one. :thumbsup:

To let everyone know, i'm going to be getting the following dizzy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-9...mZ120357979887

Brand new OE spec distributor from Distributor King. Comes with a more heat resistance ICM and includes all the parts for the dizzy. brand new, not reman.

I figured once i bought a new cap/rotor button/ICM i would have been around the same price as this new dizzy anyway. I plan on sticking with the b series family as well so this distributor should bolt on to the new engine and live a nice full life.

I know it sounds rash to just go out and buy a whole new distributor when i could just replace the broken parts, however, the cost difference wouldn't have been that much and i see it as long term preventative maintenance.

Thanks for all the help guys. Will write a DIY Install/Review of the product when i get it.

:thumbsup: to my ozhonda peeps for all the help

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cool man i'll get it ready for joo

good to see you went with Distrbutor King :thumbsup:

I got a slighty noisey dizzy bearing and after getting a quote on a new dizzy. Then asking can the bearing be replaced with OEM bearings and they can't

I decided to eventually get a Distributor King dizzy for the same price as having the bearings changed from non OEM bearings

:thumbsup:

If you wanna group buy we might be able to save on shipping.

PM me if your keen man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JasonGilholme

:thumbsup:

If you wanna group buy we might be able to save on shipping.

PM me if your keen man.

---

unfortunatly i'm tapped after buying more conversion parts

gota deposit 700+ in the morning for an order :(

no probs man. I know what thats like :thumbsup:

If theres anything usable from my dizzy that you're after just let me know and its yours man. Even if its just to get you by.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

jason dont freak out.

big chance its the cap and rotor. thats it.
at most , the ICM or coil.

i bought OEM ICM and coil from a place here in syd called "meekong spares" - icm was $70 and the coil was about 50 i think. same as OEM. I didnt even need these in te end but its best to replace anyway.

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cool information, i'm going there soon to grab the above mentioned irems.

also if you notice your leads are slipping off or popping off slightly, wrap some cable ties around the plug on the dizzy to keep them in place (common with msd leads although should be fine with top gun leads)