CVT low speed squeak sound

This weird 'squeeking' sound started happening to my car, mainly when starting from rest, or accelerating from low speeds. It stops happening on long drives (after at least 30 mins or so of driving).

Anyhow, I told my garage when I was getting the 70,000km service, and they've ordered some parts for japan and are going to replace the "starter clutch" under warranty.

I couldn't find out any more info about what caused it or how likely it is to happen again. Any one know any more about this? I want to know if its a design flaw or if there is something I can do to make sure it doesn't happen again....

BTW, I found this interesting page that shows a complex demonstration of how the CVT in the jazz works. Click on "D position" and watch for a while.. http://www.amazingcity.com.ph/CVT/HTML/CVT.HTM


- Andrew
:confused:

First I have head of this happeneig, but does not surprise me - new systems always have flaws. However, this is what warranty is there for

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Originally Posted by McChook

First I have head of this happeneig, but does not surprise me - new systems always have flaws. However, this is what warranty is there for

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It mustn't be a serious problem, but the sound was starting to get annoying and embarassing.

In fact my fuel economy is better than ever (since cleaning my air filter)... been getting >600km per tank with my daily gosford->sydney commute.

- Andrew

really ? thats great.

we have trouble getting more than 500-ish out of our vti-s cvt.
I've never seen the fuel consumption for the tank go less than 7.7L
this is mainly city driving though... most of it being driving to and from work :)

Latest update:

Collins Honda replaced the 'starter clutch' and it made no difference. Getting quite a squeeling sound when accelerating when the engine's cold. Doesn't make any noise if you rev in neutral.

Took it back to Collins and they can't diagnose the problem. They've booked me in again for 2 weeks time when a Honda Australia technician will be present...

All happening under warranty, thank goodness, but this doesn't bode well for long term CVT reliability :(

- Andrew

600kms??? I struggle to get 500 hahaha

heard about this kind of story for a few times from ppl in HK running a 1.3L engin on CVT.
The honda in HK finally replaced the whole gear box (as what they owner said) for them and that solve the problem (at least for the time the gear box still under 70,000km maybe)
They have similar situation as yours, CVT gear box with about 70,000km usage...having that squeak sound...
some of them can have the problem solved after the starter clutch is replaced, some can't then HK Honda replace the whole gear box for them

Oh dear :( Thanks for the information. I wonder if the new gearbox has a bug fix or if its going to start making the noise all over again after another 70,000?

- Andrew

I have no idea on that, since this only happens in these few months, so no one is hitting another 70,000km in such a short period.
But hope it could have that bugs fixed totally.

in fact, I have no wonder about the bug... since this is new, at least quite new to Honda, although Subaru had done this ages ago, they made lots of problem in their CVT too.

So hope the honda buddies can fix your problem finally~~ :honda:

Oh, I have no doubt at all they'll fix it. I just will be selling the car straight after that as I don't want to be stuck with the noise after warranty runs out, if it ever happens again. Manual here we come....

- Andrew

edit: ps: the noise isn't that bad, and seems to have no bad side effects. Its not getting worse either, i've driven a few thousand km's since it started. I just worry that it'll be hard to sell the car if we go for a test drive and it makes the noise it will turn off potential buyers...

that's true, as I bought the car, the sales is an uncle of my frd, he also said you won't expect to keep the car forever. The best is that you sell it in the 4th year of b4 100,000km warranty.
After 100,000km many problems will come up...

Quite true. There are regular costs to keep any car on the road, its a fact of life. But with the extended warranty taking it out to 140,000km, if the problem happened again after that it sounds like replacing the whole gearbox is a very high expense if it wasn't covered under warranty. I'm thinking it'd be a few thousand dollars.

- Andrew

Honda replaced my whole gearbox under warranty. The noise has now gone and the car feels better than ever. They couldn't work out what was causing the noise, nor could they tell me how it happened in the first place. Honda Australia said they are sending the old gearbox back to Japan for inspection :confused:


- Andrew

Incidentally, I got to drive a newer ('04) jazz around as a courtesy car while mine was being repaired. It was interesting to see how my engine has come on stronger since about 50,000km versus a brand new car. All you people with new engines have got better performance to look forward to after your engine is run in! Probably not much but my car just seems to breathe better at the top end and has more torque after 3000pm. Though, I noticed the air intake tuning seemed to be different on the newer car.

Seems strange to me that Honda would make an automatic gearbox for a car that is sold to over 70 countries (and is one of their best selling cars) and it would only last 70 - 100Ks. I'm sure they would have spent heaps on testing development. They have had the CVT on the top of the range Civics since 1995, I wonder how they are going?

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Originally Posted by icejazz

Seems strange to me that Honda would make an automatic gearbox for a car that is sold to over 70 countries (and is one of their best selling cars) and it would only last 70 - 100Ks. I'm sure they would have spent heaps on testing development. They have had the CVT on the top of the range Civics since 1995, I wonder how they are going?

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CVT is a really nice idea and I really wanted it to work.

I'm not so bothered with the fact that mine had a problem, because these things happen. But until they can tell me what caused the problem, I'm forever going to be driving around wondering if its going to happen again - not a nice feeling.

Incidentally, I noticed the recommended interval for gearbox fluid change is 80,000km, but that this should be more frequent if the car is driven in rough or difficult conditions.

I drive my car pretty damn hard, but I always let it warm up & cool down (and I've never taken it to a racetrack or anything like that.) Maybe mine just overheated and should have been replaced more frequently? I might have it changed at 40,000 next time... If I haven't sold the car by then..

- Andrew

have the 1.5 CVT (only 18,000Kms) and I asked my mechanic about it as he services a CVT Civic now and then. He suggested to change the oil in them more frequently (every 50Ks). The Civic he services has done well over 100Ks without any problem. Anyway I think I will heed his advice and change the oil a bit more regularly (it's only $40-$50 for a bottle).
When you say you drive it hard do you mean you like to be traffic light King or is that you occasionally tow a small trailer?

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Originally Posted by icejazz

have the 1.5 CVT (only 18,000Kms) and I asked my mechanic about it as he services a CVT Civic now and then. He suggested to change the oil in them more frequently (every 50Ks).

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Sounds like a good plan, probably would pay for itself in the long run..

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Originally Posted by icejazz

When you say you drive it hard do you mean you like to be traffic light King or is that you occasionally tow a small trailer?

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Never towed anything, but many long drives on hot days. Been up to Brisbane, down to Melbourne, and many country areas in between.

I drive to redline at least once every time I take the car out, but only after its well warmed up.. Used to drive to Sydney from Gosford for about 3 months every weekday, and it was during that period that the noise started happening - lots of stop start peak hour driving plus a long freeway drive.

- Andrew

How do you take it to the redline? Do you put it in 'L' or use the manual buttons on the steering wheel. I can never red line it in 'S' as it only goes to about 5,500rpm. Has that been your experience as well?

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Originally Posted by icejazz

How do you take it to the redline? Do you put it in 'L' or use the manual buttons on the steering wheel. I can never red line it in 'S' as it only goes to about 5,500rpm. Has that been your experience as well?

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Yeah, when I say I redlined it, I meant up near the auto changepoint in manual button mode. I never really hit the automatic changepoint because thats past the optimal change point.. I think 'S' mode tends to sit on 5500 rpm because thats the optimal torque/power for CVT mode..

I only ever use 'S' mode for beating up on commodores/falcons at traffic lights ;)

- Andrew

Is this a known issue for CVT ??? Or is it a 1 in 100 sort of the stuff??

Probably CVT does not like to be pushed reallt hard?? I don't know...

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Originally Posted by ahcash

Is this a known issue for CVT ??? Or is it a 1 in 100 sort of the stuff??

Probably CVT does not like to be pushed reallt hard?? I don't know...

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Not meant to be pushed hard? With 7 speed sequential? The newer jazz has paddle shifters ! I think Honda know the owner would at least have a bit of fun with the car.

- Andrew

I agree, I don't think Honda would design a 6300rpm red line with auto transmission if it wasn't going to last the distance. I think this is just a rare case (ie. 1 in 100).

great info to read.
what if u drive like grandma? would that make the car's tranny last longer? lol

I would say it probably would. You would think any car that you thrash around a lot more in will wear quicker but then again I'm not an expert on that.

Haha.. nah, grannies are redirected to the nearest Hyundai dealership to buy a Getz.

:rolleyes:

Hi Guys,
Just reading all the posts about CVT reliability issues, I must admit I have no problems with my CVT tranny atm. I have driven 71,000kms since I picked up my car in March 2003! I'm from Sydney and I do drive alot of urban kms, as well driven once to Adelaide in 45degree temperatures with limited stops.

Further to this, I regularly redline my car whilst playing around in manual mode, and I do this occasionally with a full load of passengers as well.

I haven't changed my CVT fluid yet, but I should have done so back at my 60K km service (as a precaution) though the service book guides the service at 80K kms. I wasn't too sure what fluid to use as I didnt want to use the Honda oil, I prefer the Castrol Transmax Z oils, but didnt get time to research its suitability for the CVT, maybe someone can advise me about this oil?

Anyway, I havent had any minor or major faults with my car to date, there are no creaks inside the interior other than the occasional creak if i hit a speed hump way too fast, ie 40km+ instead of the recommended 25kmh. Or If I go to dirt roads where they are grooved (if you know what I mean).

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Originally Posted by ACE888

I have driven 71,000kms since I picked up my car in March 2003!

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That was the date on my car, too. I'm up to about 87000 now.

I think you should use the genuine honda auto fluid for the CVT. It doesn't cost that much and if you only have to fill it every couple of years I think its cheap insurance.

I've driven pretty hard too (hot dusty high-speed conditions) and the manual says 40,000 interval for cars driven regularly in that environment. I guess being careful can't hurt.

- Andrew

If u look at the castrol catalogue, transmax Z can be used for Honda Civic Cvt.... i also found out that Honda use the 'one' same transmission fluid for all of their automatic and cvt cars... from castrol catalogue recommendation and from the fact that Honda uses the same fluid for all of their auto and cvt car, including jazz, i really dun c why cant use transmaxZ (which is a much better trans oil - fully synthetic ).

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Originally Posted by Zimp13

If u look at the castrol catalogue, transmax Z can be used for Honda Civic Cvt.... i also found out that Honda use the 'one' same transmission fluid for all of their automatic and cvt cars... from castrol catalogue recommendation and from the fact that Honda uses the same fluid for all of their auto and cvt car, including jazz, i really dun c why cant use transmaxZ (which is a much better trans oil - fully synthetic ).

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Very Technical... :thumbsup:

I looked at the Castrol website and they recommended Jazz CVT owners to use Honda ATF fluid, so I guess I'll reluctantly use the original HOnda fluid for the time being, though I'd prefer the Transmax Z as it seems to be designed for heavier duty applications.

Anyway, Andys, Nice Story about your track days. I am taking my Jazz on June 2 @Wakefield Open Days, so maybe you can come down? or anyone else with a Jazz? it would be sweet seeing the little Jazz'es fly down the track! My mate in his WRX is taking me cos he goes to these open days and WRX Club days all the time.

I'll be driving a stock Vti-S CVT, no mods!

Cool. Next trackday I was planning on going to as part of Circuit Club is july 5th...I'll thinking about coming along on your day too though.

http://www.circuit-club.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=15

My jazz won't be stock this time though!

- Andrew

Sweet. What mods did you get?

thanks for the link, I'll go to the July 5th day as well (at worst to look only)!!

Now all I need is to become a member!

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Originally Posted by ACE888

Sweet. What mods did you get?

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Well, I'm about to get new wheels. But I'm thinking of doing exhaust/headers/intake. At least exhaust, something to make the car a bit more fun to drive... I'll post about it seperately.

- Andrew

Ok cool.

Anyway, back to CVT fluid. Page 286 of my manual says:-

"Always use geniune Honda AFT-Z1 (automatic transmission fluid). If it is not available, you may use a DEXRON III automatic trans. fluid as a temporary replacement. However, continued use can affect shift quality. Have the transmission flushed and refilled with geniune Honda AFT-Z1 as soon as it is convenient"

Therefore it is acceptable that Transmax Z can be used in this situation.

ive never experienced any squeaking with the cvt, got a vti jazz...but maybe its because i get the car serviced always at the honda dealership?

Mine is the same situation and need to replace the "Starter clutch" and waiting for the parts to arrive. Hope the fix improve the fuel milage. It will cost $3K to replace if your car is not under warranty. The car has done 67K at the moment and guys please get your clutch check before the warranty runs out.

I also serviced at the dealership too. Guess what? they only do what the book says - replace CVT fluid at 80,000km. Its just too long, if I were buying a new jazz all over again I'd definitely ask them to replace it at 40,000, and I recommend you all do the same - cheap insurance.

I replaced at 20,000km myself.

squeaking sound? hmmmm..... i dont know how this exactly sounds, but does it sound like a rusted see-saw going up and down?

also..... my car starts to jerk now whilst in D.. usually at speeds between 30-70km, when i'm rolling the car and may have the accelerator pressed... it feels like the car surges..... i'm thinking it could possibly be a fuel injector problem? anyone any ideas?

Cameltree,
what are the symptoms of the clutch startup problem? Does it effect your mileage as well. My understanding is you feel a vibration when starting off. How bad is the vibration?

IceJazz,

exactly as your have described. The steering vibrates when you start from still.

The easiest way to test is to turn on the air con and take off on a hill or ask your friends to fill up the car. The vibration will be more obvious as soon as you put more load on the gear box.

Cameltree,
I have only noticed very slight vibration, and it always seems to have been that way.

i haven't notice any vibration since the starter clutch has been replaced. Fuel consumption has improved a lot too.

A good friend of mine is a Honda mechanic/technician.
He recommends to change the CVT gearbox oil every 20,000km, and stipulates the use of designated Honda oil only, if you want longevity, and reliability from the CVT gearbox.